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On ATS, Ignorance Is Winning

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posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Magickesists
unfortunately the internet is a tool of expression with im sure more than 6 billion users.



Wow!

Actually I think the planet earth itself has between six and seven billion homo sapiens users, of whom six billion are non-internet users.

With the exponential growth curve of ATS we should reach six billion members by mid-June 2032, unless 2012 gets in the way.




posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by Magickesists
unfortunately the internet is a tool of expression with im sure more than 6 billion users.



Wow!

Actually I think the planet earth itself has between six and seven billion homo sapiens users, of whom six billion are non-internet users.

With the exponential growth curve of ATS we should reach six billion members by mid-June 2032, unless 2012 gets in the way.


Either way I'm just saying it with exageration maybe but their are a lot of people who use the internet and a lot on this site i just don't think there is a way to stop the ridiculous amount of people who decide there ignorance should be written. and by the way that sentence is a little sketchy.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Personally I think that this thread itself contains a perfect example of some of the problems here. Voice of Doom levelled a rather heavy accusation at TC without taking the 3-4 minutes necessary to read the thread itself or even the entire post in question! I consider that to be the height of irresponsibility.

See, some people try to help. I think this thread's author, Majic, was sincere in his effort to be helpful and make some helpful suggestions, at the very least he got people to float some good ideas, and that's fine.

But so many others are constantly complaining, and complaining and complaining. Sometimes it's hard to even tell what they're complaining about anymore. In a community of this size it is not helpful to have people who whine simply for the sake of whining.

I do not believe that anyone has the right to complain if they don't know the whole story. I don't think anyone is owed anything, and quite the opposite, you owe it to the membership, the staff and ATS as a whole to put in the thought and caring that is necessary to improve something. That's what a community is all about isn't it?

It's like SO said, if the people with complaint after complaint (absolutely not referring to Majic) would focus some of that energy on contributing interesting topics we would not have such problems to discuss now would we?

[edit on 11-29-2004 by Djarums]



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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I believe I may have come up with and idea. A bad one maybe for those of us who don't want it but it would work. Simply enough for those people who come here to make absolute nonsense it might solve problems to make it a pay site. Obviously the people who don't want to be serious are not gonna waste money to be idiots. I know it would mean a great loss for the community because some valued members might be lost but thats my input however inanae it might be.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 06:16 PM
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C'mon SO...I haven't made any trouble lately and its only drama because the issue wasn't handled quickly when it was reported.
a
n
d
your "point" is irrelevant. Aren't moderators held to a "higher" standard than common members? Isn't that how you get to be a MODERATOR?
a
n
d
Aren't there "procedures" to handle a situation where a member is getting out of control??? Doesn't a mod step in, warn the poster, have them re-edit the post, and ask for an apology??? Its what happened to me when I employed "edgy" sarcasm.

or was that the old way?

the new way is to let the moderator engage in two paragraphs of "simulated" personal attack to teach responsible posting.

Gimme a break.

Where's the consistency of staff actions?

I hope MA creates a TQM procedure that makes policys clear and applied ACROSS THE BOARD at ATS.



and by the way...


There's no enemy anywhere - Lao Tse



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
Aren't there "procedures" to handle a situation where a member is getting out of control??? Doesn't a mod step in, warn the poster, have them re-edit the post, and ask for an apology??? Its what happened to me when I employed "edgy" sarcasm.




How about give it a rest. Sheesh! Drama for the sake of drama VOD.
It's getting most tiring.

I know you are completely perfect, but guess what? The rest of us here are not. We make mistakes, we overlook things. We do the best we can. How about someone making a thread about the good things here?


I know, I know...not as ego stroking as it is making a nay-sayer thread, but still...you should give it a try once in a while.

Wait! Even better...make a thread about a conspiracy. Yes, yes...that is edgy and hardcore. What will others think after all?



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Magickesists
it might solve problems to make it a pay site.

What? No. [turns around to everyone else and yells] "Don't listen to this man, afterall, he's new here, obviously doesn't know what he's talking about"


Obviously the people who don't want to be serious are not gonna waste money to be idiots.

Oh yes they will. Especially since its not really the people who don't stick around that I think are whats being complained about, but rather people who actually are serious. And they'll pay.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
Aren't moderators held to a "higher" standard than common members?

They are?

Isn't that how you get to be a MODERATOR?

Is it?

Where's the consistency of staff actions?

Gosh, you mean something in the world can be inconsistent at times? Seriously, whats it matter? Some mode talked down to you? I don't think that there's a person on this board who hasn't run into a mod that they've had a serious disagreement with. Hell, I've met a number that I seriously and strongly disagree with. But I've never had one of them meltdown like you're saying they are. I dunno, maybe its, you?



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

How about give it a rest. Sheesh! Drama for the sake of drama VOD.
It's getting most tiring.

(addressing board problems in the "board questions & business section"...how dare I)

I know you are completely perfect, but guess what? The rest of us here are not. We make mistakes, we overlook things. We do the best we can. How about someone making a thread about the good things here?


(you ARE completely perfect, but thats not the point...we all have to answer for our behavior here at ATS...well, apparently not all of us. I've been at this site for almost two years, that should qualify to everyone that I enjoy the site. There are plenty of threads singing the high praises of ATS. I only want to help improve ATS. Think of criticism as feedback, Zed..a way to improve)

I know, I know...not as ego stroking as it is making a nay-sayer thread, but still...you should give it a try once in a while.

(Im not making a nay-sayer thread, Zed. Im adding a post to a topic titled, "On ATS, Ignorance Is Winning". Its not my thread..I didn't start it.)

Wait! Even better...make a thread about a conspiracy. Yes, yes...that is edgy and hardcore. What will others think after all?


(www.abovetopsecret.com... Try this one, Zed. It was very popular and might get me some more points)


So now its time for the ATS staff to circle the wagons and punish the messenger. Nice. Blame me for bringing it to the community's attention, maybe find a way to give me a warning for...persistence?.
It doesn't really matter. Personally I don't give a rat's a** for Moku or TC. But I thought it certainly gave the ATS staff a chance to show the whole community that NO ONE was above that law here. You could administer justice publicly and make it always available.
Then the next time a newbie posted a thread about unfair treatment from mods or inconsistent policies you could pass them onto the thread and they could see that it doesn't matter what you have written under your Username...the laws applies to all.

Just trying to save souls, kittens.

SO....why the hate? You can't still be sore from that little summer fling.


and for the exhausted ATS drama audience...this is my last word on the subject...you're on your own.



There is no friend anywhere - Lao Tse



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 09:44 PM
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.
Could it be that some people don't handle the anarchy and chaos that free speech can create? It isn't always pretty, it isn't even necessarily fair, but that is how free speech works.

The exclusive ability to vent your own view point and dis allow others the same is not what free speech is about.

I've never used it, but assume the ignore button works. If you are desperate use it. I ignore some people by not entering their threads, especially when their posts are so predictable.
.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 09:51 PM
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The last couple of pages of this thread remind me of something....hmmm.










[edit on 11-29-2004 by Valhall]



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
The last couple of pages of this thread remind me of something....hmmm.


Val you've done it again!!!! I almost fell out of my chair!!! I think that puts a good end to the topic. ROFLMAO!!!!!! I'm going to book mark that one, to funny!!!



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 10:20 PM
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A very thought out post Majic. I have been around ATS for a long time. Now while my memory is far from good, ATS was a different place way back when. But there were still occasional problems which came and went. And the same thing is still happening, only on a larger scale since ATS has grown by leaps, bounds, and rocket propelled flight.

Now while this may be happening, it isn't going to be the downfall of ATS. True some threads get full of crap which the reader has to choose to filter out and not reply to. (A good way to get rid of those trolls) But anything bad, hurtful, etc. is usually dealt with quickly by the ATS Mods from my experience at least.

At this point I think I am rambling, but what I am getting at is, its not as bad as it could be. ATS is doing well, and as long as the staff keeps up their work I don't think ATS will spiral to the dark dank pits of the internet. Anyway enough seriousness, make me mod and I promise to make all this stop... Rabble rabble rabble...

And Val, good cartoon.



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 07:27 AM
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On ATS, ignorance = whining.



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 10:12 AM
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Well... Majik got my last way above vote... i was saving it for something special.

I'm relatively new here... and I'd like to say I'm hooked... Ive been suckered into to hate threads before... sometimes its tough not to... you have to step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath on occasion.

Sometimes I wonder about this whole... deny ignorance thing though. I think some people on here are denying reality or denying everything. Or denying just for the sake of denying.

Its amazing how fast a thread can run off topic from just one members unapropriate (i cant speel:lol

comment.

I haven't posted many threads... But of the ones I posted I spent more time trying to keep it on track then actually being able to back up my topic.

Is this happening to any other thread posters?



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 03:12 PM
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ATS is far from being a perfect message board, but honestly (and not trying to kiss any asses) it is the best run board I have frequented on the internet...

No one here can tell me that they have visited any internet community that is better than ATS, concerning the way things are run by the staff, as well as the way troublemakers are dealt with. (Of course this only includes boards of a large magnitude, as I'm sure there are many boards no one has ever heard of which have no problems whatsoever, and that's great...but ATS is way beyond that point).

Most other boards I have visited, if you post ONE or maybe TWO posts that are that of a troll, you will simply be banned without question. At ATS, there have been many great hoaxers and con artists, as well as simple trolls and people looking to start fights. These people have all been dealt with in a very diplomatic manner from what I can tell, and their side of the story is heard before a final decision is made about their future here. And just the fact that moderators care enough to do this shows that they are trying to actually improve this community, rather than just police the boards.

I have had a few run-ins with staff on occasion, I think everyone has. But at least if I screw up one day, people will understand maybe I am having a bad day, maybe I am just very passionate about one certain subject and it hit me in the wrong way...this happens to everyone, and it has always been handled well. Sure, there are some mods that make mistakes or take certain things too personally, but we all would in rare times if we were put in the same position, and I know there are other mods who could make a decision other than the one disagreeing with me. I am very argumentative by nature, and when I think back on some of the warnings I argued with mods about, I just realize it was essentially bitching...but I'm glad that they took the time to explain to me why I was warned, why it was wrong, etc. instead of just banning me. ATS is run much better than almost any other large discussion board. If you don't believe me, just go to any other large board and read through some of the topics.

I think the very nature of a "conspiracy theory" discussion board blurs the lines when it comes to trolling. I have read many threads that are so far-fetched that I think the person making the thread just made it all up to see our reactions and then laugh at all the "loonies". On most boards you would probably be considered a troll if you posted about nordic aliens, whereas here, it is practically the norm to read about such topics. This makes it easier for anyone to write up some weird idea and pass it off as a serious discussion topic when they are just looking for a reaction.

It is good to challenge and question the system always, or else nothing will ever change. I think all problems and concerns should be discussed about this board at anyone's will. But saying that "ignorance is winning" based on post quality and other subjective factors isn't really getting anything done to improve the board. I would classify it as "bitching"...which is something we all do from time to time, but maybe it is more suited for the rants forum. A better, more rational complaint to make would be about how you don't like how the board looks, how a certain forum is setup, etc. And that is what the "comments" button is for. It is a bit tiresome to see posts that reiterate what has been said time and time again..."ATS isn't denying ignorance, the people are crazy, no one loves me enough, etc etc etc". (This isn't meaning you Majic, but referring to some of the past ats complaining threads).

Everyone that has been here probably feels that the discussion quality was better when they first arrived. Well, that could partly be true, but I really don't think the quality has changed much from the status quo. Upon arriving here at ATS many people feel a sense of discovering all this new, crazy, shocking, sometimes enlightening information. This is all fun until after a few months it starts to get old, and the threads look like the "same old same old" information. You have to remember, that as a board grows, there will be many more "ignorant" threads, but also many more "quality" threads. The overall percentage probably stays about the same, but of course the number increases with more activity, thus giving the illusion of an overall board stupidity increase. (Keep in mind this is all your own opinion, and what is stupid to you is genius to someone else).

My suggestion is to come up with some new ideas of your own, create a new and well-thought out topic, and see what others have to say. Try to improve the "quality" of the board through your own posts, at least those that YOU consider to be of high quality. If you really can't handle all the "ignorant" posts, take a break. Just don't visit this board for a couple months and then come back later when it will seem like a new start. Those who think the board quality is deteriorating are truely the ones losing to ignorance...as those who have been around long enough have seen the different phases of the board, and know that, if anything, it is improving.

[edit on 30-11-2004 by Shoktek]



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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Wassup wit the 'High Drama Level Alert' thing and this thread?



posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 03:51 PM
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While the last several posts have been, um, illuminating, I think the point of this topic has been made in more ways than I had originally expected.

Yes, I have my ideas as to how to improve things around here, and try not to be shy about sharing them, but I know that it is a lot easier for me to make suggestions in blissful ignorance of the workings behind the curtain than to actually carry them out. I've been on the other end of that scenario enough times myself.

I had been critical of "ghettoizing" the dross that seems to cling so tenaciously to political discussion these days, but the more I consider the significance of the upcoming changes to ATS -- notably the split-off of the political forums -- the more enthusiastic I become.

I still think building more automation and transparency into the disciplinary process will aid in managing all ATS-affiliated boards, but I must confess that the swift and effective action I am seeing on the part of the ATS staff is making it increasingly harder to find things to complain about.

As a footnote for those who are wondering, I am very much aware that ATS is one of the best-run boards on the Internet. That's why I bother to complain: because a board this good deserves posts worthy of it, and the burden for that falls on everyone who contributes.

I want to do my part to help cultivate the kind of atmosphere that encourages people to question their assumptions and what is considered "mainstream" or "conventional wisdom" -- to deny the ignorance that the Powers That Be would prefer us to embrace.

In my opinion, this is one of the most important and meaningful things anyone can do in the Information Age we live in. Once you have surrendered your mind to the control of another, you have lost everything.

Denying ignorance requires that we all strive to maintain a culture of intellectual honesty and mutual respect -- though each of us may stumble at times -- because when you get down to it, that's all any of us on the Internet has that's worth anything.

Here's hoping we all do our part!


P.S. Regarding The Evil Strawberry: I laughed, I cried, but most of all, it was the feel-good movie of the winter. Three thumbs up!



posted on Sep, 27 2006 @ 01:25 AM
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(Whistles)

Impressive thread,has drama,but people have to let something out of their chest,even in important situations,like this thread.At least thats what I think.

Ignorance could be winning in someway,but not for long.
If it is winning then lets find out why and maybe find the cause of it,through the HUMAN BRAIN.

In this thread we are asking questions about the human brain.I hope it would help sooner or later!!!


[edit on 27-9-2006 by tormentor]



posted on Sep, 27 2006 @ 02:06 AM
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You got that applaud from me because this was a perfect thread to have bumped.


Look at Majic now, moved on up to the super mod side, now he sees both sectors of the forum/s.

If only more members read this and absorbed it's meaningful content, I feel the topic and reason this thread was started, could be curbed and kept in check, not that it hasn't.


I vote to have it topped, but the topic needs to be adjusted. Noting that ignorance is not winning.

[edit on 27-9-2006 by ADVISOR]



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