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Canadian doctor makes anti-Obamacare senator look like a buffoon

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posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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macman
reply to post by bluesilver
 


So, why do you have a Govt agency needed for this? It should then be just a funding agency.
www.huffingtonpost.ca...
www.fraserinstitute.org...
www.fraserinstitute.org...

Seems that the budget short falls and high yearly tax is just awesome.



I'm not from Canada, I'm from the UK




posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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macman
reply to post by peck420
 

How so???

Oh, I guess it is "different" right??

Debt doesn't really mean anything when what you are doing with the money makes you feel good and is the compassionate thing to do.


Because our deficit is currently taking a nose dive...while healthcare is being paid?

The federales spend about $0.11/tax dollar on healthcare...which is substantially lower then what the US feds spend (approx $0.24/tax dollar) for...I'm not sure what.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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macman

bluesilver

Ok...deep breath......

WE CHOOSE TO HAVE THIS SYSTEM.... At this point I'm tempted to start doing diagrams if it helps you understand..?

I'll try it again...

We have a choice because we CHOOSE to have this system. It is what we want. It is what we would fight for. Everyone in the country wants it.

So, since you want it, and all want it, why do you need the Govt to require everyone to do so? I mean, if you really want it, why not just do it.

I want to play with my kids. I don't need a Govt mandate to enforce me to do this.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The Govt require everyone to do it?? We want the Govt to do it. How can I 'just do it'? Do you want me to go to the hospital and pay my money direct to them?

You really hate your Govt don't you. You think they control everything.







bluesilver

If a GOVT tried to take it away there would be riots.

Says a lot about how people think.
They would riot if their Govt required benefit was taken away.
That sounds funny when stated out loud. Maybe try it.




bluesilver
Why do you think so many countries HAVE this sytem?

Because most don't have a choice. Since it is, after all, a Govt mandate.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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macman
Not the math behind it.
It basically allows the Govt to decide who must pay what and how much.
Sounds very democratic in nature.

Wait, so let me get this straight...

The government, that is elected by the people to carry out the mandates laid out during the election, can't provide direction for taxation because it is undemocratic?

Uh huh.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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macman

peck420

macman
So much for everyone paying their "fair" share.

"Fair" in Canada, in regards to taxation, is defined by equal burden, not equal rates.
2nd.


So, wealth redistribution.

"fairness"..

And how it is that you get to determine what is a burden to someone?
Without being totalitarian and all.

edit on 19-3-2014 by macman because: (no reason given)


Besides, his statement makes no sense. "Equal burden" would be the opposite of a progressive tax. A progressive tax is making one person take on more of a burden than the other based on income.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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deadcalm

The only things we riot over in Canada are hockey and maple syrup shortages...that can really chafe a Canuk let me tell you.

You guys stated that. I didn't.


deadcalm
You seem not to understand...living in your totalitarian police state as you do....the Government isn't GIVING us anything. We give to them and they spend the money we give them on programs that WE have chosen.

If we don't like a law....for instance the National Gun Registry...we get rid of it. Simple as that.

That is what it is like in a functioning democracy.

So, since this is the case in Canada, I assume then that you all back the wars. Since you know, the Govt is acting for the people?

Please spare me the whole BS statement that the Canadian Govt is sunshine and rainbows, with no corruption and you guys up there don't have a Govt that encroaches on your freedoms.
It seems that the RCMP have just recently changed some rules on a couple of things, thus making a single act of owning something a criminal act.



deadcalm
I forgive you if you have forgotten what thats like....it's been quite some time since the US has had a fuctional democracy....and it just seems to be getting worse all the time.

And I agree. But, what we really need here is single payer healthcare, because that will be fantastic as the Govt grows even bigger.


deadcalm
Your President can actually have you assasinated if you are out of the country without the protections guaranteed by your Constitution if they think you are a domestic terrorist without any evidence having to be shown....he's done it 4 times already....and is looking to make it number 5. Worse...your family would never be able to find out why because everything is a damn secret....secret laws, secret courts that issue secret rulings....

Good thing I not only didn't vote for the POS in office. I am all for impeaching him and everyone involved with stated illegal actions.


deadcalm
I'd say you have far bigger issues to tackle in the US than just healthcare.



Yep, we sure do. Maybe the system here should have been left alone, while the larger issues were worked out.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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peck420

macman
Not the math behind it.
It basically allows the Govt to decide who must pay what and how much.
Sounds very democratic in nature.

Wait, so let me get this straight...

The government, that is elected by the people to carry out the mandates laid out during the election, can't provide direction for taxation because it is undemocratic?

Uh huh.


It is. You talk about "the people" as if it is monolithic--it is not. What we have here is 51% voting to take away from the 49% actually, we have 51% of the 30% who actually voted voting to take away from the 49%. This is one of the problems with a pure democracy and which why were designed as a Constitutional republic (largely ignored now that people have discovered they can vote themselves funds form the public pot) where the rights of the minority were supposed to be protected from the will of the majority.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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So, Canada can't stand up for itself??


The US is our largest trading partner by far....we'd be cutting off our nose to spite our face if we didn't play ball with the US. It would kill our economy overnight....this we cannot allow. So....we swallow our pride and go along to get along as they say.

Reality is a tough taskmaster...and so is living right next door to the largest economy on Earth.

But as I have stated elsewhere...steps are being taken to correct our Governments misguided approach to security....laws are being reviewed as we speak. If these laws are not changed....we will throw out the bums in office and get someone who will change them.




So again, some pay nothing, but are able to use the system in the same manner as someone that foots the large portion of the bill.


Roger that. It is as you say. I've tried to explain the philosophy behind it to no avail.

Moving on...




So, your country/Govt has had a role in this.
Interesting.......very interesting.


Yes...Canada had a role in Afghanistan...I just said as much...but remember...it wasn't our party...we were just invited along for the ride.




But above you stated some will pay more then others, yet have the same access to the system.

Which is it?

If the wealthy pay more, then they are in fact...........paying the majority.


I did...I also said some may not pay at all...it is all dependant on what we can afford to pay...or not. Just because someone is poor....and I am not...doesn't make their life any less valuable than mine...or any less worth saving...or make them unworthy of the help of those of us who have much more.

As I keep saying...this is what we have decided to do...and the reasons why we do it. Accept it or not....this conversation is going round and round and it's not getting us anywhere.




You clearly haven't been paying attention to World Govts.


You would be flat wrong on that. I just don't care how they choose to live. Thats up to them to decide what systems seem best to them. The US should learn from that example...tend your own garden and quit worrying about stealing the vegetables from someone elses and then bombing the living hell out of them.




They can take it away.


They can try. But then we can take away their job. But seriously....we are talking about the Canadian Government here....it is nothing like your government. I simply cannot see it happening.




So, you guys print your money??? Or does your Govt print the money??


Yes we do.

Yes it does.

We are the Government...it is ours. It is not some fuzzy theoretical entity that issues orders from on high.




And you guys can keep your system.

Just please, keep it above the southern border.


And you enjoy yours. Not a problem mate....we have no interest in making the US do anything it doesn't want to....just trying to show that there are other ways of looking at things.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:29 PM
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I think the Canadian Health Care system is superior to the American system. Well, I do think that the military system, which is non profit, is a good system in America. The Veterans administration had good hospitals and doctors. People got fixed right away.
edit on 19-3-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


Yes because loosing 30% to taxes when you make over $130,000 is sooooooo much harder then loosing 15% at >$43,000.

The irony of this argument is that federal taxes are substantially cheaper...in Canada.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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NavyDoc

It is. You talk about "the people" as if it is monolithic--it is not. What we have here is 51% voting to take away from the 49% actually, we have 51% of the 30% who actually voted voting to take away from the 49%. This is one of the problems with a pure democracy and which why were designed as a Constitutional republic (largely ignored now that people have discovered they can vote themselves funds form the public pot) where the rights of the minority were supposed to be protected from the will of the majority.

Well, since democracy is so terrible...switch to something else.

I'll stick with democracy.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by MOMof3
 


So, again. The use of "My Brother's keeper" is still out of context.
Regardless what Jesus did throughout his life.

And I have yet to see anywhere within the Bible, or where Jesus stated the Govt should take care of people via taxing others.

The bible preaches not only person responsibility, but the person to make the decision to help others.

No where does it state God or Jesus DEMANDS you to do these things. That is left up to the federal Govt to require as such.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by bluesilver
 


Shall i provide research into what is going on there? Or would you like to get your own?



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by peck420
 


Nose dive you say????

www.nationaldebtclocks.org...


That clock should be going going in reverse then, right?

My backwater redneck math must be off somehow.

I thought that a decrease meant the number would be going smaller.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:40 PM
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I think the Canadian Health Care system is superior to the American system.
reply to post by rickymouse
 


Although I think it is better...It isn't superior. It can still be made much more efficient than it is...we've still got some work to do.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by peck420
 


You said this, not me.

But.......I guess you guys are all right up there.

I mean if a drug using alcoholic can be Mayor, anything can happen.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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macman
reply to post by peck420
 


You said this, not me.

But.......I guess you guys are all right up there.

I mean if a drug using alcoholic can be Mayor, anything can happen.


And you had George Bush Jr.

Not sure you really thought your retort through there...



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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macman
reply to post by MOMof3
 


So, again. The use of "My Brother's keeper" is still out of context.
Regardless what Jesus did throughout his life.

And I have yet to see anywhere within the Bible, or where Jesus stated the Govt should take care of people via taxing others.

The bible preaches not only person responsibility, but the person to make the decision to help others.

No where does it state God or Jesus DEMANDS you to do these things. That is left up to the federal Govt to require as such.





So we are now using the Bible to support arguments are we?
Any other fairy stories you want to bring forth?

And for the last time....and please, please, please read this carefully... the Govt doesn't DEMAND us to have our system. WE CHOOSE IT.

Please read it again.

WE CHOOSE THE SYSTEM - the Govt implements it on our behalf. The Govt hasn't forced us to have it, we WANT it. We HAVE it.



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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peck420
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


Yes because loosing 30% to taxes when you make over $130,000 is sooooooo much harder then loosing 15% at >$43,000.

The irony of this argument is that federal taxes are substantially cheaper...in Canada.


How do you know that? Do you know my responsibilities, debts, how many family members I provide for? That is a very glib and very ignorant position to take. You haven't a clue how much work people put into what people earn or who and what depends on their income and that snarky and ignorant position is typical of the entitlement crowd.

And regardless, taking more from one person than another is still not "equal burden" no matter how you might think one can "afford it." Equal burden would be everyone shouldering the same part of a load. In a progressive taxation system, some people shoulder a lot, some a little, and many none at all.
edit on 19-3-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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peck420

NavyDoc

It is. You talk about "the people" as if it is monolithic--it is not. What we have here is 51% voting to take away from the 49% actually, we have 51% of the 30% who actually voted voting to take away from the 49%. This is one of the problems with a pure democracy and which why were designed as a Constitutional republic (largely ignored now that people have discovered they can vote themselves funds form the public pot) where the rights of the minority were supposed to be protected from the will of the majority.

Well, since democracy is so terrible...switch to something else.

I'll stick with democracy.


You don't even have a pure democracy and it's kind of funny that you don't even know what system you actually have.


As for pure democracy, then you think it is perfectly fine that the majority can do anything they want to the minority as long as they have the votes?



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