Canadian doctor makes anti-Obamacare senator look like a buffoon

bluesilver
I think I will follow you guys out of here.. I will buy the beers

A Canadian brew, right? Hey...ya know why Americans drink their beer ice cold? Ah...never mind...that joke won't make it past the Mods.

JohnnyCanuck

bluesilver
I think I will follow you guys out of here.. I will buy the beers

A Canadian brew, right? Hey...ya know why Americans drink their beer ice cold? Ah...never mind...that joke won't make it past the Mods.

Bahahahawahaha.....

JohnnyCanuck

bluesilver
I think I will follow you guys out of here.. I will buy the beers

A Canadian brew, right? Hey...ya know why Americans drink their beer ice cold? Ah...never mind...that joke won't make it past the Mods.

Cheers guys, you'll have to explain it to me after a few

To be fair here, micro-breweries are where most "in the know" Americans get their good beer. In my state alone, we literally have several hundred of them.

And it is usually very, very good stuff!

The senator in the video really got under my skin for reasons I cant quite explain.

Not all of us down here are against a national health care system, but our society is constantly bombarded with an "Us vs. Them" mentality. It results in a very difficult time actually getting something together, since many will disagree strictly because "They" thought of it, and "Us" (we) did not.

You may or may not get the same advertisements, but there is a Twix ad campaign that basically tells consumers to "pick a side" on which Twix is better (right or left). I assume this is tongue in cheek, however, it is a very apt analogy to political discourse here (and some might say it goes beyond politics).

Obamacare has been successful in a select few cases, but the overall repercussions might end up being quite harmful. However, it is only one grain of sand on the beach of problems we are currently facing.

The only issue I have with paying taxes towards a universal health care system is that the government implementing it is entirely corrupt on almost every level. However, I think investing my tax money into providing health care for myself and neighbor would make a stronger country than bailing out corporations and insurance companies.

thesaneone
reply to post by bluesilver

 

See ya,
Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split ya.

[/

Wow, Did you think of that all by yourself? I'd best leave you to pick up all the tumbleweed....there is a lot of it...

Serdgiam
To be fair here, micro-breweries are where most "in the know" Americans get their good beer.

In my state alone, we literally have several hundred of them.

And it is usually very, very good stuff!

The senator in the video really got under my skin for reasons I cant quite explain.

Not all of us down here are against a national health care system, but our society is constantly bombarded with an "Us vs. Them" mentality. It results in a very difficult time actually getting something together, since many will disagree strictly because "They" thought of it, and "Us" (we) did not.

You may or may not get the same advertisements, but there is a Twix ad campaign that basically tells consumers to "pick a side" on which Twix is better (right or left). I assume this is tongue in cheek, however, it is a very apt analogy to political discourse here (and some might say it goes beyond politics).

Obamacare has been successful in a select few cases, but the overall repercussions might end up being quite harmful. However, it is only one grain of sand on the beach of problems we are currently facing.

The only issue I have with paying taxes towards a universal health care system is that the government implementing it is entirely corrupt on almost every level. However, I think investing my tax money into providing health care for myself and neighbor would make a stronger country than bailing out corporations and insurance companies.

Well I do feel for you..perhaps more focus and pressure needs to be applied to govt by groups to hopefully bring about a more accountable system? As an outsider it does seem that the insurance companies would be terrified of a system like ours, so will obviously fight it with all they have. A bit like cigarette companies did. It's a shame though as our system, with more guidance on general health matters like obesity too, would probably raise more money because more people would be paying overall. And with healthier populations there would be less demand than there is now, freeing up more money for care.

I think unless people stop repeating scare stories that are not true, created by insurance companies and their minions, there will be too much fear of our type of system. Corruption indeed...

I think the bit that we can't understand most is that although we say our system is great, a large portion of Americans seem suspicious of it. Is it because they think it can't be true? I have no idea, but if you ever come over here or talk to a UK person (or European person for that matter) they will more than likely say they love this type of system and would hate to have a US one. We'd think that would be enough proof but it doesn't seem to be for some reason..

The bottom line is that we pay a small amount of tax for it, it is very good, universal and everyone I know has only ever been grateful for it. So that's why we just don't understand the way it seems negatively portrayed in the US.

reply to post by Grayarea

The other reason those numbers of Canadians using the american health care system is because we have a lot of 'snow birds' that spend 6 months of the year staying warm in sunny Florida or Arizona. These folks are retired and have paid to have coverage while they are there. But when they come back home and try to get coverage for their next trip down, the cost will be much higher. If you have a pre-existing condition prior to leaving Canada the insurance can be brutal or out of reach for some depending on the condition. Think twice before going if you do. Canadians who do not have extra coverage can return to a nightmare of debt if not sufficiently covered and end up in a US hospital.

Canadians also visit the US for services that are not covered by the provincial health plan such as dental, vision and hearing aids. Vision was de-listed (must be 10 years now) in Ontario and is not part of regular coverage and much of the population is on it's own for this. The thing is that for these services the cost is cheaper in the US and faster. Privatization has not been kind for Ontarians and if they can, they will cross the border to have the same thing done cheaper and faster. Each provincial health care is different.

Having said that most of the system is good and I would much rather have my coverage paid through my taxes than to have a monthly payment as much as my mortgage. There is no deductible, we go to the emergency or a doctor with no worry of how much we will be charged when we leave, we just present our Health Cards (as long as we meet the residency requirements) and take our place in line. It is our responsibility to notify our provincial system when we move, marry or die (well someone else does that). Guess what our health card is valid for 3 days after that! Nobody goes without healthcare.

Not only do we pay an employer health tax on our pay but we all pay the system with taxes on our purchases. We do not get to write this off but we also don't have nightmares hoping that if we have a debilitating illness that it causes us to lose everything, well unless we lose our job too and have no source of income, but we still have health care.

bluesilver
Well I do feel for you..perhaps more focus and pressure needs to be applied to govt by groups to hopefully bring about a more accountable system? As an outsider it does seem that the insurance companies would be terrified of a system like ours, so will obviously fight it with all they have. A bit like cigarette companies did. It's a shame though as our system, with more guidance on general health matters like obesity too, would probably raise more money because more people would be paying overall. And with healthier populations there would be less demand than there is now, freeing up more money for care.

I think unless people stop repeating scare stories that are not true, created by insurance companies and their minions, there will be too much fear of our type of system. Corruption indeed...

There is a lot of blame placed on the poor, and it is also considered a foregone conclusion that someone receiving assistance is someone who is also not able to contribute anything whatsoever. But there is also significant amounts of corporate welfare that might be considered an issue by most, but it doesnt tend to be a focus.

This is further perpetuated by the people who actually do pursue and receive assistance (in its various forms). I think the selection criteria for this might be a conspiracy topic all of its own, honestly. There are many, many people on government assistance that simply want free things and they dont hesitate to say it either! It ends up being the publicly perceived image, since the ones who actually needed it tend to be busy trying to build something of a life with what they are receiving.

If we are to pay taxes on collective items which enable all of us to increase our quality of life, I would think healthcare is a part of that. The healthier the nation is, as a whole, the more it tips the scales in its favor with several key factors. But it is a problem on both the individual and collective level.

At this point, I think politics, and even many social relations, are more about being a contrarian than working towards the betterment of a nation or society. Ideas are rarely actually explored, but just accepted or rejected based on imaginary lines in the sand.

Serdgiam

bluesilver
Well I do feel for you..perhaps more focus and pressure needs to be applied to govt by groups to hopefully bring about a more accountable system? As an outsider it does seem that the insurance companies would be terrified of a system like ours, so will obviously fight it with all they have. A bit like cigarette companies did. It's a shame though as our system, with more guidance on general health matters like obesity too, would probably raise more money because more people would be paying overall. And with healthier populations there would be less demand than there is now, freeing up more money for care.

I think unless people stop repeating scare stories that are not true, created by insurance companies and their minions, there will be too much fear of our type of system. Corruption indeed...

There is a lot of blame placed on the poor, and it is also considered a foregone conclusion that someone receiving assistance is someone who is also not able to contribute anything whatsoever. But there is also significant amounts of corporate welfare that might be considered an issue by most, but it doesnt tend to be a focus.

This is further perpetuated by the people who actually do pursue and receive assistance (in its various forms). I think the selection criteria for this might be a conspiracy topic all of its own, honestly. There are many, many people on government assistance that simply want free things and they dont hesitate to say it either! It ends up being the publicly perceived image, since the ones who actually needed it tend to be busy trying to build something of a life with what they are receiving.

If we are to pay taxes on collective items which enable all of us to increase our quality of life, I would think healthcare is a part of that. The healthier the nation is, as a whole, the more it tips the scales in its favor with several key factors. But it is a problem on both the individual and collective level.

At this point, I think politics, and even many social relations, are more about being a contrarian than working towards the betterment of a nation or society. Ideas are rarely actually explored, but just accepted or rejected based on imaginary lines in the sand.

edit on 18-3-2014 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)

interesting stuff..I really hope you can get something that works for you all before too long..

reply to post by bluesilver


It is the persons right to either focus on themselves and/or focus on others.

I guess your okay with forced compassion via Govt.

reply to post by bluesilver


How is it cheap exactly???

It is paid for via extra taxes, taken from people. And I am sure it is a sliding scale of taxation, so there are people that are paying higher percentages then most.

deadcalm

FYI...in 54 years using the Canadian healthcare system I have not ever been asked to jump for my healthcare. Not even so much as few bars of the Hokey Pokey.

Good luck with that.
It seems your Govt is encroaching on some other rights. One can only look at that and see that it all starts somewhere.
But, if your happy with the Govt controlling a large aspect of your life, more (well less) power to you.

deadcalm
I pay for this service through MY taxes. I pay those taxes to MY government. I don't feel I'm being robbed at all. I pay it gladly. It makes me feel good to know that my neighbor will get the same treatment as I do if he is sick or hurt....regardless of his ability to pay. That's the value that we put on our people's lives. I don't care if my taxes are used to save someone elses life.

So, you don't mind carrying the weight financially for your neighbor.
Okay then.

deadcalm
In Canada....the question "Am I my brothers keeper?"....can be answered....YES.

Is that after you killed your brother Cain??

But, if your happy with the Govt controlling a large aspect of your life

reply to post by macman


Huh? I fail to see how having universal healthcare equates to the government having control over a large part of my life....other than having to get a replacement health card every 5 years...I never see or hear from the government regarding my healthcare. Wanna know what else I never see??

A BILL.

It seems your Govt is encroaching on some other rights.

Yeah...it's our southern neighbor....the rot and corruption there has been spreading all over the globe....we in Canada haven't escaped it either.

So, you don't mind carrying the weight financially for your neighbor.

It's not like I'm paying his mortgage...car payments..food costs....LOL. But yes....I don't care if a part of my tax dollars go to keeping my neighbor healthy and well. After all....he's doing the same for me.

Is that after you killed your brother Cain??

Ok...you lost me.

deadcalm


Huh? I fail to see how having universal healthcare equates to the government having control over a large part of my life....other than having to get a replacement health card every 5 years...I never see or hear from the government regarding my healthcare. Wanna know what else I never see??

Of course you do.

So, who controls when/where/how/why for your medical issues?

deadcalm
Yeah...it's our southern neighbor....the rot and corruption there has been spreading all over the globe....we in Canada haven't escaped it either.

Deflecting does very little for me.
Care to answer the question?

deadcalm
It's not like I'm paying his mortgage...car payments..food costs....LOL. But yes....I don't care if a part of my tax dollars go to keeping my neighbor healthy and well. After all....he's doing the same for me.

If you don't care about paying for someone else's medical needs, why stop there? I mean, it is in fact only compassionate to have everyone be able to eat, have a home and clothing.
But, in a sense you are paying for them, or at the very least offsetting their financial obligations so they can pay for other items.

deadcalm

Ok...you lost me.

Maybe you should actually go and research the bible that you quoted from.

You know, the part about Cain and Able.

I know that Progressives like to pull things out of context and use them as talking points, but we really need to stop with the "brothers keeper" crap and actually show it for what it meant.

And I am sure it is a sliding scale of taxation, so there are people that are paying higher percentages then most.

reply to post by macman


You are absolutely correct.

I know this is a foreign concept to Americans....but here in Canada...the wealthy are taxed more because they enjoy a far higher income. There are of course exceptions, as in the US.....for instance, investment income is taxed very low....this ensures that we aren't losing investment dollars to off shore, tax free accounts.

It is paid for via extra taxes, taken from people

Correct again. Unlike the US though, which pretty much takes your money and you get little to show for it (except a national debt over 17 TRILLION and climbing fast)....I have a ridiculous number of social programs available to me....to my wife, my kids. I see it in new infrastructure....schools, water plants, bridges...ect.

As Canadians we have decided that the taxes being taken from us should be put toward things that improve our collective health...education, childcare....things like that. Things that improve our lives.

I'll tell you what we don't do...is spend 100's of billions on a single plane that's only function is to rain death on people who mean me no harm. We prefer to spend our tax money on things that matter to us.

We are not a perfect country by any stretch....but we are working on it.

macman
reply to post by bluesilver

 

It is the persons right to either focus on themselves and/or focus on others.

I guess your okay with forced compassion via Govt.

I think an option may be to actually implement a non-forced avenue for those who enjoy helping others to do so without having to deal with corrupt organizations and governments. We have this in certain arenas, but it doesnt tend to be universal (special interest groups), basic help.

There is no infrastructure in place to allow this in an efficient, transparent manner and that is a problem.

I understand that there will always be people who do not care at all about someone who is in need (regardless of circumstance), but there doesnt even need to be a system in place to enable that! The other way around however, does require an efficient system to distribute the resources. That doesnt currently exist, and even if it did, it would probably look something like Obamacare.

I still think a better way to provide support, with significantly lower long-term costs, is to provide assistance with hard goods and services rather than a monthly monetary allotment. These government assistance allotments tend to be held in major banks, if you didnt know. Think they are making money off of it?

So, who controls when/where/how/why for your medical issues?

reply to post by macman


LOL...you crack me up man.

In decide with the advice of my doctor. If I don't agree with that doctor....I get a second opinion. If I'm still not happy with that I can see a specialist and get his/her advice. The when is decided on a priority basis....elective surgeries (ones you don't need) take longer....however, if you have a pressing issue that requires immediate attention....you get it. The where is based on what problem you have and the availability of the needed treatment where you live. The when and the why are up to me...cause I'd be sick wouldn't I?

The government plays no part in any that whatsoever.

Deflecting does very little for me.
Care to answer the question?

reply to post by macman


I OBJECT!! LOL

I didn't deflect anything...you made a statement and I commented on it. There was no question.

Here is what you said...

Good luck with that.
It seems your Govt is encroaching on some other rights. One can only look at that and see that it all starts somewhere.
But, if your happy with the Govt controlling a large aspect of your life, more (well less) power to you.

I don't see a question in there...do you??

If you don't care about paying for someone else's medical needs, why stop there?

We don't. We go way further....we actually have subsidised housing for the poor, welfare, workers compensation, subsidised daycare programs, old folks homes...we pay for a lot of things through our taxes....how in the hell can we afford to do this kinda stuff you ask??

We don't blow 5 trillion dollars on wars that gain us nothing. We don't spend 700 BILLION a year blowing other countries back into the stone age.

Let me try and boil this down simply for you.

As a Canadian...I don't want the government to be an anchor around my neck pushing my nation closer to bankruptcy everyday. If we have to have a government at all then I want it's focus to be on the betterment of the society we are building for ALL OF US. Thats what a government should do....SERVE IT's CITIZENS. Not the other way around.

A radical concept, I know.

reply to post by deadcalm


Well, you have a solid point. We are taxed greatly, with little to show for it. Does that maybe show that Govt, when allowed to grow, encroaches on every aspect???


And it really troubles me that you are fine with people being taxed higher, just because they earn more.

Guess that taxes are punitive in nature and you are fine with that.

So why not cut military and black ops and alphabet agency spending and put that into healthcare. No higher taxes and problem solved.

Now, when I say cut military ....that doesn't mean VA or benefits or pay...it means actual jobs, close bases and cut out domestic spying. We'll still have the worlds best military. Just look up the biggest nuclear arsenals and then look up navies and aircraft carriers and then look up military aircraft and then look up military satellites and then look up military technology and you'll see that we could cut trillions and still have the worlds largest most advanced military and pay for all the healthcare we'd ever need.