Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School

Good points Seth, but I think it has something to do with:

Understanding that sound government and a free, moral society rest upon a belief in the "laws of nature and of nature's God," California passed a law in 1997 requiring public schools to teach the Declaration of Independence and other documents from the Founding period. By prohibiting Mr. Williams from distributing the Declaration, not only is Stevens Creek School undermining legitimate civic education, they appear to be in direct violation of California law.

Declaration of Independence Banned



seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
I can agree with that Bley, but then that brings us back to the heart of the problem: why was the Declaration of Independence banned and not the teacher?
seekerof

It wasn't the DoI that was banned but the fact that Mr. Williams was only using selected excerpts of the document to make his point. There is alot more going on in this classroom than we know. Why aren't any of the other christian teachers having similar problems.

From the San Mateo County Times:

A Cupertino public school teacher is suing his district and his principal, who banned him from using excerpts from the Declaration of Independence and other historical documents in his classroom because they contain references to God and Christianity.

Oh and TC - you old black and white thinker you:

Let me state this emphatically, I agree that god and christianity are a part of this country's history. There is no denying that and I have no problem with them being mentioned. This man, however, is teaching religion under the pretext of a history lesson - big difference IMO.


B.

Could it be that the teacher was trying to offset the anti-Christian teachings that is prevalent nowadays in the school systems?

Anyway, gotta run now. If I don't talk to you good folks tomorrow, you all have a good Thanksgiving.
For those not American, that is a holiday where we Thank God for the bountiful blessings He bestowed upon our new settlement in this world. Just as they did the first Thanksgiving.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Anyway, gotta run now. If I don't talk to you good folks tomorrow, you all have a good Thanksgiving.
For those not American, that is a holiday where we Thank God for the bountiful blessings He bestowed upon our new settlement in this world. Just as they did the first Thanksgiving.

How dare you!!
Don't you know, we're now not supposed to teach our kids how Thanksgiving really got started!?
www.foxnews.com...
posted here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

copy and past:

Students Free to Thank Anybody, Except God




Nov. 23, 2004
By Laurel Lundstrom
FOX News

ANNAPOLIS, Md. � Maryland public school students are free to thank anyone they want while learning about the 17th century celebration of Thanksgiving � as long as it's not God.

And that is how it should be, administrators say.

Young students across the state read stories about the Pilgrims and Native Americans, simulate Mayflower voyages, hold mock feasts and learn about the famous meal that temporarily allied two very different groups.

But what teachers don't mention when they describe the feast is that the Pilgrims not only thanked the Native Americans for their peaceful three-day indulgence, but repeatedly thanked God.

Best quote from the article:

"Education is inevitably going to offend someone," said Whitehead. "We need to get beyond being politically correct, or everything will be glossed over."

I HATE pcness....

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Could it be that the teacher was trying to offset the anti-Christian teachings that is prevalent nowadays in the school systems?

No because there is no anti-christian teachings that are prevelent nowadays in the school systems.

Like other people pointed out their are other teachers who are xian in the school and have used materials referencing God with no problem.

The anti-xian bit won't fly here.

if you go to thesmoking gun you'll see that there was already a complaint about this guy.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

Why just teach bits and pieces? Sure, the Declaration of Independence mentions "God" and "the Creator", but it also shines some light on how the white males that founded our country thought of brown people.

My point being, if they weren't so enlightened about non-white people, maybe they weren't so enlightened about other things. Like Christianity, and tainting our country with its influences, no matter how oblique.

Originally posted by SethJaneRob

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Could it be that the teacher was trying to offset the anti-Christian teachings that is prevalent nowadays in the school systems?

No because there is no anti-christian teachings that are prevelent nowadays in the school systems.

Like other people pointed out their are other teachers who are xian in the school and have used materials referencing God with no problem.

The anti-xian bit won't fly here.

if you go to thesmoking gun you'll see that there was already a complaint about this guy.

Seth, are you so hateful of Christ that you cannot even spell His Christ? Do you think you can X-out Christ?
Who are you to say what will not fly here? Are you the authority? Sorry, I don't buy it.
The teaching does not have to be "Hate Christ" in nature, all it has to be is omit Christ. It can be the pushing of relative morality, the teaching of Darwinism as a fact instead of an hypothesis (as many a scientist have suggested it should be called) while poo-pooing any child who mentions the fact that maybe God created us and, as a matter of fact, not even teaching the concept of Creationism even though that can easily be done without denominational influence, teaching little Johnny that it is perfectly ok if he has amorous feelings toward little Billy, or any of the numerous slants, tilts and omissions that is expected every day in schools. It is no different in the higher learning centers, as I've witnessed. Having an offspring in school now, and knowing people all over the country with children, I have a clue. Your denial won't fly here or anywhere else, Seth.

By Dan Whitcomb
LOS ANGELES (Reuters)

"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote,"
olympics.reuters.com...

5 to 10 percent refers to God and this is being censored? This is clear evidence of an "agenda"?

Give me a break, sounds more to me like a pretty thorough guy. If the documents censored are 5 -10 percent of what this guy hands out (look at that list) I give him a thumbs up for the amount of extra effort he is putting into his curriculum.

It seems like no one is listening to Bleys. Bleys provided a very good excerpt from the article that points at this guy having an extreme agenda. It appears his agenda has riled parents, and now the principal has had to take extreme measures of his own. Please note that the principal is reviewing "lesson plans" (i.e. how the material will be presented).

I believe Bleys is right here, there is much more to this story than just some anti-christian principal wielding his evil devil hammer.

I find the documents referring to "which religion is supreme" very disturbing...that would be a big "not part of American history" lesson as far as I'm concerned.

Now, there is no way to teach the construction of the new American government without discussing the faith of the founding fathers - that part I'm with TC on, but this dude was doing something a bit more unacceptable than that. Let's remember, the founding fathers operated on religious tolerance - because it had been intolerance (and indentured servitude) that had made their past lives unbearable. They wanted to avoid that in the new country.

This teacher seems to be teaching a subtle form of religious intolerance, and that's not okay.

The school rejected his lesson plan, which included some selections from the declaration, not the declaration in total. Please keep it straight. This school has not banned the declaration of independence, nor any other document written by the founders.

They found that this teacher was cherry picking quotes to make up some non-existent history wherein the Founders were pious christians who were trying to create a state in accordance with god's law. They weren't. They were secularists. Lots of them were deists.

When they looked to history and law to form the new nation, they didn't look to the Vatican, or the Ten Commandments. They didn't try to make the forms and institutions of good government be derived from religious beleif or doctrine. And they didn't try to model it on a 'divine right' kingship nor a monastery in the dark ages. They looked to the Roman Republic and the Spartan City-State for their models. They looked torwards Natural Laws and Rational Philosophy for their laws and its source.

Originally posted by jupiter869
I wonder more and more what kids will be learning in school. It is really frightening and utterly astonding. I fear the bible may replace textbooks.

I for one hope your fear becomes reality. IMHO this is what is wrong with our nation now. Folks like you taking "God" out of everything.
You may be a non-believer, but give me one reason why the believers should accept this lying down?
Schools were a lot better off before such practices were implemented. Less violence, less suicide, and less drugs and teenage pregnancies.
If you wish for your children not to know about the Lord, then there is always homeschooling. Oh and before you start, I do homeschool my children. The reason being ....children should be children. Children within my family and many others have noticed the difference between homeschoolers and public students. My children learn twice what public schools are teaching these days, and they know nothing of drugs, sex, and violence. They love and care for all humanity. They can pray at home. In my world eight year olds still play with barbies, and muscle trucks. Not learning about having babies, and sex drugs.
If this issue upsets you so, take some sound advice and homeschool your children.

George Washington's
1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted' for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and, in general, for all the great and various favors which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions; to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have show kindness to us), and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as He alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand, at the city of New York, the 3d dy of October, A.D. 1789.

That's right folks. Thanksgiving itself (not to even mention Christmas) is a holiday to give thanks TO GOD. NOT TO THE INDIANS...NOT TO THE PILGRIMS...TO GOD! Interesting how the schools go ballistic when you mention God...yet have NO QUALMS about taking holidays off in his name.

I thought the declaration of independence mentioned the word "Creator" not specifically God...as in we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. This could apply to almost any religion... Perhaps I need to re-read it...

Many Christians who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration as "proof." The reason appears obvious: the document mentions God. However, the God in the Declaration does not describe Christianity's God. It describes "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." This nature's view of God agrees with deist philosophy but any attempt to use the Declaration as a support for Christianity will fail for this reason alone.

The laws of nature and natures God refer to Darwinistic principles and being on top of te foodchain iow: God is he who holds the largest stick.

Also the "Creator" refers to the Supreme Creator of the Universe.", the grand architect of the masons, the declaration of indepence is much more of a gentlemen agreement of the nouveau riche and powerfull to promise scratching eachother backs for mutual benefit, the God from the Holy Scripture is for the lesser people to pray to, exactly why Ashcroft had to go, he was pushing an agenda for the wrong God



[edit on 4-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

Since none of us were involved in the creation of this nation, I will refer you to the words of one who was:

It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here.
--Patrick Henry



[edit on 4-12-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Patrick Henry and George Mason were true patriots that were not satisfied with the initial declaration because they thought is was the foundation for a new empire. Due to their opposition the Bill of Rights was added, as means of protection precisely against the Constitution!

Hamilton and the federalists (representing the powerfull bankers) said basically "You have to trust us", Henry said "Not good enough"

So not withstanding the other (christian) influences on the formation of the constitution during the Constitutional Convention of 1787 fact remains the initial created system of federalism is identical to the federalism of the Grand Loge as put in the Anderson constitution of 1723.

So, we should thank the christians not for creating America, but put on enough protest to have some civil rights added, hey christians were pretty liberal at that time


[edit on 5-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

I think Religion over actual history is something to be feared. I mean, look at catholic schools, which intergrate everything with religion, producing false history based on religious ideals.

This brings to mind how required reading in high school use to include Mark Twain's, Huckleberry Finn. Today it's banned from the classroom because of it's liberal use of the N word. The fact that it's renowned for its distinct depiction of seven rural dialets spoken in 1880s Missouri, means little in today's politically correct environment. It seems to me, Americans are losing their national identity. Many recent immigrants, (mostly illegal Mexicans) have no intention of assimilating into our culture. Why this is tolerated and even encourged, is beyond me. I find it arrogant and insulting at the very least. Within the pockets of "little Mexico" scattered throughout the country, no English is spoken and contemp for "gringo" is blatant. These people's allegiance is for their homeland and are even allowed to vote in Mexico's elections without being present. What do you think all this means? Call me paraniod, but I see an insidious invasion taking place. An invasion that's encourged by our "back stabbing" government and sponsored by the American taxpayers.

"Beam me up Scotty"