In Ukraine's east, some beg for Russian iron hand

page: 1
4

log in

join

posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:00 PM
link   
Some reports on feelings in Eastern Ukraine and how the economy and fear of Right Wing hatred is fueling the desire for becoming part of Russia again.

Link to source


LUHANSK, Ukraine (AP) — Lidia Gany had some tea and bread, all she can afford these days for most meals, put on her duffel coat with the fake purple fur collar, and came down to the main square of this down-at-the-heels industrial city at Ukraine's eastern edge to join fellow ethnic Russians in urging Moscow to send troops across the border and protect them.

"Only Russia can save us," said the 74-year-old pensioner, crossing herself. Since Russian troops rolled into Crimea, and lawmakers there scheduled a referendum for Sunday on whether to join Russia, the world's attention has focused on the fate of the lush peninsula that juts into the Black Sea. But here in Ukraine's coal-fired industrial east, where huge numbers of Russians have lived for more than two centuries, a potent mix of economic depression, ethnic solidarity and nostalgia for the certainties of the Soviet past have many demanding the right to become part of Russia as well.




"I'm for living in one country, with no borders, like we used to. Like the fingers on one hand," said 60-year-old Lyudmila Zhuravlyova, who signed a petition asking for Russian President Vladimir Putin's military invention to stop "political persecution and physical annihilation of the Russian-speaking and Orthodox population."

In Luhansk and other eastern Ukraine cities, some men have formed militia groups such as "Luhansk Guard," the "People's Auxiliary" as Russian news broadcasts swarm with alleged atrocity stories about attacks on ethnic Russians and Jews in Ukraine — helping to spur the secession drive and the anxieties that underlie it. The Associated Press and other international media have found no evidence of victimization.




Some in Luhansk, including Gany, have relatives in Russia who tell them life is better on their side of the border. She now must make ends meet on about $100 a month in pension payments, she says_half of which goes to pay her rent. Her husband is dead. She held a variety of jobs in the old Soviet Union, from the BAM railway project in Siberia to a fish cannery in Kamchatka, but much of her savings vanished when the former superpower broke up.




She now fears persecution from Ukraine's new leaders, and is afraid to travel to other regions of the country. In 2010, the year of Ukraine's last presidential election, Luhansk gave 89 percent of its votes to Viktor Yanukovych, a native of another town in the Donbas coal-mining region. The pro-Moscow president fled office last month after prolonged street protests and bloodshed in Kiev, and was succeeded by a government made up of politicians friendlier to the United States and European Union.




For some in the east, the regime change was not only blatantly unconstitutional, but a catastrophe. "The West wants to put Hitler's Plan Ost into effect," said Zoya Kozlova, 54, a teacher of philology. That plan, if fully implemented, would have meant the enslavement, expulsion and extermination of most of the Slavic peoples in Europe.




Pro-Moscow forces in Luhanks already have a leader, self-styled "people's governor" Alexander Kharitonov, who is spearheading the drive for a referendum. "The people of Luhansk don't recognize illegitimate Kiev. We think that the government has been changed through a coup d'etat," he said. And Kharitonov said he hopes for assistance from Moscow to right that situation.



"The Maidan (the anti-Yanukovych protests in Kiev) showed us the police aren't able to protect us. Neo-Nazi groups that were created on the Maidan have spread throughout Ukraine. The police aren't able to protect us from them."

"The new government won't do it. So we think we have the right to ask our friend Russia to protect us," Kharitonov said. Already, the Kremlin has made clear that it's closely watching developments. On Monday, in an official statement, the Russian Foreign Ministry said lawlessness "now rules in eastern regions of Ukraine" and blamed the Right Sector, a grouping of far-right and nationalist factions whose activists were among the most radical and confrontational during three months of protests that led to Yanukovych's ouster.

"Without Putin's help, they will annihilate us," said Sergei Chupeyev, 69, a retired mining engineer from Luhansk. "We need to ask him for help, or tomorrow there will be fascists here."




posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:02 PM
link   
Do these fools never learn.. Why would anyone
want to live in the Soviet Union II.

You get to hand over you papers on demand
You get tortured... nvm I cant be bothered.



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:02 PM
link   
These are ethnic Russisans, correct?

No true Ukrainian would ever say this. They would rather die.
edit on 3/12/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:03 PM
link   
reply to post by rigel4
 


There are 7 Billion people on this planet. Some legitimately see the world VERY differently than we do and sincerely want to live in a very different way, too. I find it interesting to watch how often that is discounted as irrelevant or nonexistent as a factor.

They just like it that way.



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:08 PM
link   

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by rigel4
 


There are 7 Billion people on this planet. Some legitimately see the world VERY differently than we do and sincerely want to live in a very different way, too. I find it interesting to watch how often that is discounted as irrelevant or nonexistent as a factor.

They just like it that way.


I know .. but still.. People are people.
And Soviet Russia II wants force this way of life on others whether they want it or not.
Just lets hurry up withe division of EAST/WEST and just view the last 20 odd years
as an Interlude.
Then we can all get back to the cold war.. This time around we are skint and that worries me.

The question in my head in the last week or so is this.. If the Russians thought they would win
without getting nuked.. Would they try for Western Europe.

I am of the mind that they would in an instant.

Perhaps we should get serious the other way on.


edit on 12-3-2014 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:18 PM
link   
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


These are ethnic Russians that reside in Eastern Ukraine. Half of Ukraine is of Russian ethnic origin, pro Russian, Orthodox, Russian speaking etc, and feel that they only became separated from Russia by default in the first place.



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:22 PM
link   
reply to post by theabsolutetruth
 


I am more than aware, althought I disagree with your numbers.

My statement stands.

ETA: "Feel that they became separated by default" is a crock. These are ignorant people who were either raised to believe or just decided to believe it was all one country.
edit on 3/12/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:23 PM
link   
reply to post by rigel4
 


I can't honestly blame the Russians for how they feel. I can't blame some in the old Soviet Republics either. I very strongly disagree with socialism in the way Russia came to embody it and use it for the better part of a century...but what did they get as an alternative??

When the wall came down, no one was ready and no one expected it. It's funny as I was just talking about this with someone the other day and watching it unfold on CNN at the time. I think everyone was waiting for those people to start taking fire from Soviet side machine guns in East Germany. It would have been expected on any night before that one....then the whole world changed. Totally. Overnight. What now?!

Well, the West seemed to gloat, revel and downright enjoy how things turned out, but didn't help anyone in the fallen states with anything meaningful. IMF or World finance loans in other forms...but that's also slavery on the national level for terms and long term 'gotcha' factor. The WORST of the west moved in, as opportunism ALWAYS seems to...(crap always floats to the top, as another way of putting it) and for so many, how much more did they see, as we geographically move closer to Russia itself?

They lost the breadlines of the immediate post-fall period, but they got the crime and oligarchy right out in the open and sitting like proud peacocks for society to bow to. From their perspective in life....I'm not sure the order and stability in life from the old Soviet doesn't look a lot better.

They got the bling bashed over them..



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:31 PM
link   
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 

Much like Americans think that America belongs to them and not the original peoples ? Or does might make right to rule over other nations and cultures to tell them how and what to do .



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 02:47 PM
link   
reply to post by rigel4
 


Kind of like in the States? Right?



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 03:36 PM
link   
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Obviously I was referring to a geographical half, as an approximation.

Crimeans and many ethnic Russians have long beleived that their becoming part of Ukraine was a formality rather than a choice. Krushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine as a pacifier but angered a lot of ethnic Russians in the process. Hence more than twice before now, Crimea has legally claimed independence from Ukraine, though Ukraine trashed their claim.

There are plenty of reports that give proof to Russian support in Ukraine.

Whether you like it or not, many ethnic Russians in Ukraine support being part of Russia, fact.

Additionally, calling them stupid is rather insulting to them. If they feel ethnically Russian and want to be part of Russia then so be it.

Just who does the US think it is sometimes, it is none of their business and given the track record of the treatment of Native Americans and the takeover of nations and invading nations far less militarily equipped than themselves. Perhaps some US people need reminding that if it wasn't their own independence revolution they would still be British, whilst berating others in other nations for their own attempts at independence.

Also it is worthwhile to say that whilst you might think of ethnic Russians as being ''too stupid'' for making their own decisions, they have the right to vote and choose and if they vote for being pro Russia then that is their choice, not yours or anyone else's choice, theirs.

The issue isn't about your opinions on Russia either, it is about human rights and the right to vote, and for freedom of choice and the right to bid for independence.

www.channelnewsasia.com...


DONETSK, Ukraine: More than 10,000 people carrying Russian flags protested on Saturday in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk, the stronghold of ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, an AFP journalist said.

Protesters declared they supported "the aspirations of Crimea to rejoin Russia", referring to Ukraine's pro-Russia peninsula further south where Kiev has accused Moscow of launching an "armed invasion".

"Russia! Russia!", they shouted, as demonstrators on the sidelines of the rally distributed leaflets calling on people "not to obey authorities in Kiev".



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 04:31 PM
link   
reply to post by theabsolutetruth
 


I didn't say stupid. Please don't put words in my mouth. Enjoy your thread.



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 06:01 PM
link   
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


You said ignorant and implied they just believed things they were told. Which implies stupidity.

About just believing things they are told, is not the US and many other places just as ''ignorant'' of the truth of their politics, governments and the rules that shape their lives, the banking system, corporate greed etc as ethnic Russians in Ukraine?

Perhaps they are taught other things but there is plenty of unscrupulous practice in the US, EU and globally, albeit just a different flavour.




These are ignorant people who were either raised to believe or just decided to believe
edit on 12-3-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 01:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


These are ethnic Russians that reside in Eastern Ukraine. Half of Ukraine is of Russian ethnic origin, pro Russian, Orthodox, Russian speaking etc, and feel that they only became separated from Russia by default in the first place.
You overestimate their number by one degree of magnitude.

Map:
upload.wikimedia.org...

EDIT: Damn, how to make an picture here?
edit on 30-6-2014 by Shadow1024 because: problems with adding picture



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 01:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: majkaveli
reply to post by rigel4
 


Kind of like in the States? Right?
It would be an analogy if the USA invaded Great Britain to protect there English language speaking people.

(Yes, in the past there was Kiev Rus, and later appeared on scene Moscow Rus which become powerful when Kiev Rus was devastated by Mongols, so Moscow Rus had a chance to capture big part of Kiev Rus lands)





top topics
 
4

log in

join