How to put out a Fire: To Quell an Out of Control Government

I have had quite a lurking hiatus here on ATS, so consider this my return to the forefront. The longer that life goes on, the more I feel like The Joker in a way. This is simply because I feed on chaos. Unlike that character, I don't enjoy it, I see the good in it all and the reality of everything, all connected, all leading down the same dark path.


I posted all the way back in 2011 a few simple statements that make me giddy with excitement:

The clock nears midnight. Soon we will enter 2012, a year with quite a name to live up to. By this time next year we will be at one of three places:

1. Recovering from the effects of December 21st, should anything prove to happen on that date.

2. Sitting with a little bit of found hope now that Ron Paul has won the presidency.

3. Miserable and complacent as the world continues to get worse, and we continue to accept it.

In all my honesty, I believe that the most likely of these outcomes to occur would be the third. While we can hope for some kind of global change, be it a catastrophe that opens the minds of all, or some kind of mass spiritual awakening, or some kind of grand event that will unite the world... we must be ready for that which comes if these things do not come to pass.

Why the excitement? Because I was right. ATS was in an uproar back then. There were several mentions of the term "revolution" week after week and people were finally getting "Mad as hell and they weren't going to take it anymore!" But sadly... the Declaration and its prophetic words hold ever true.

...all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

And it maddens me. The fight that so many people can have and can digest in upon themselves and yet continue to do nothing about it.

Your movements fail. You do them again.

Your petitions fail. You write more.

Your politicians all end up the same. You elect them some more.

Your voices are ignored. You continue to speak.



The definition of insanity rests within the confines of the soul of the modern American, wanting change so badly but too ignorant to see that the ways they were told to go about that change don't work, they never have worked, they never will.

It is the equivalent of standing next to a fire when someone tells you to put it out by blowing onto it. In any normal situation, the person would learn that blowing at the fire doesn't do anything, and in most cases just makes things worse. So what does a normal person do? They try new things. They keep trying until they find the thing that will put out that fire.

But not America. Not Americans. They keep blowing on the fire because Uncle Sam told them that is the way to do it. 2+2=5 because Uncle Sam said so. Ignore the better ways and the history of our world because blowing on that fire is the only way and it will work... eventually. That is what dear Uncle Sam keeps on telling you in their 1984 dreamworld.

But better men have discovered long, long ago that the proper way to quell that fire is to use water. There may be water damage to follow, but water can dry. Ashes will not pick themselves up and go back together again.

My friends allow me to introduce you to a radical concept, an idea that history has shown to work through countless times, a tried and true way to depose tyrannical governments who no longer accept or listen to the wills of the people.

REVOLUTION

The water to the fire that is out of control government.

*Gasp. Shock and awe. Inconceivable.*

Strangely enough, we were even given permission to do it in the Declaration of Independence. Isn't that wierd that the Founding Fathers would thing of such a thing?

Don't worry folks. No need to jump the gun just yet. Let's just wait for Operation American Spring to come and really put a pin in the behinds of those in Washington. After all, have you read their mission statement? With change this exciting they are bound to gain some ground, right?

Their plan of action:

1. Field millions or multi millions of people into Washington DC, unarmed and lawful, and stand around picketing.
2. Have at least one million of those people stay in DC and basically live there or... "occupy" it.
3. Profit?

Well the claim is that by doing step number 2, somehow this is going to cause the current government leaders to step down. If that happens then step 3 would be to create an interim government consisting of supporters of the Tea Party in Congress. Whatever, I guess. They have this claim that if Egypt could do it, so can we. Problem is, Egypt used violence. It was a violent revolution just like all of Arab Spring.

But where have I seen this concept before? OH YEAH! The Occupy movement. In fact, I was there at Occupy DC on more than once occasion. I was also at Occupy Philadelphia and Occupy New York, and I was a member of the various Facebook groups. Hell, there had to be at least 100-200 different occupy movements around the nation with probably millions upon millions of people involved.

How did that turn out?

"Well you see, they never had a clear defined goal so they never would have gotten far anyway."

Yeah, I've heard all the excuses. They are the same excuses made for every rally, petition, protest, ect. that fails.



Revolution works. Do people not realize in the last decade alone how many violent revolution have deposed their governments successfully? The number is ridiculous. Not to say that they replaced them with better leaders, but that is just like your opinion man.

But not in America. Oh no. We are too "civilized" for such "barbarism". With our iPhones and our Panera Breads and our American Idol... we sound like old Britain, whining of the barbarism of guerrilla tactics because all Americans wouldn't line up in a field and get shot by superior firepower "like gentlemen".

We need to get over ourselves. There is a fire burning. It is raging out of control and all people want to do it keep blowing on it. We have an endless supply of water but for how long? How long until the government takes that resource away from us? How long before it is too late and we just have to watch it all burn to the ground without any hope of stopping it?

How long?

The choice is simple people. You either use the water (revolution) to put out the fire and clean up the mess afterwards... or you let it all burn to ashes, no chance and no hope of ever seeing your freedom, your liberty, your American Dream - ever again.

Am I talking to a wall or are people actually willing to listen yet?

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


Our government form and political system is designed to allow a legitimate and legal "revolution" without violence and it is why we are the oldest government on the planet.

While I agree that change is overdue, I don't think that the type of revolution you espouse could have any benefit to liberty or freedom.

The problem is that people want to fix things without their segment of the population suffering. The politicians like the whores they are see this and try to implement fixes that don't hurt ANY segment of the population all so that these segments will vote for them (or their party) come next election. Neither the population segments or the politicians want to sacrifice themselves to fix things. So instead we get these "fixes" that are more like putting a band-aid on an arterial laceration.

It is already bad enough that the election system has created politicians that cannot think long term, but add the things I just mentioned and you have a recipe for disaster. Personally, I already understand that things have gotten so bad that the only way to truly fix anything will cause large amounts of suffering.

Hey I like your style . Suppose that instead of getting people to go out of their way to trek across the country to live for a time in which they will probably be ignored or used to perpetuate the status quo . Why not with the numbers create a week long stay at home do nothing ,support nothing , and really put the pressure on the Corp.'s bottom line . They work and move with #'s and if enough #'s ignore them long enough , they will send the puppets to ask just what is wrong .

reply to post by greencmp


That, my friend, is just the kind of excuse I am talking about.

The government design was corrupted a long time ago to prevent that "revolution" you speak of.

The Declaration of Independence was most definitely talking about a "legal" revolution against Great Britain, as they traipsed off to war almost immediately. I'm sure the crown supporters at the time had the same sentiment as you, that it would serve no benefit to the ideas of liberty.

Boy were they wrong.


reply to post by Krazysh0t


There is much truth to what you say. But people are going to have to get off their high horses and realize that either way, whether we suffer fighting or we suffer under the rule of a true tyrannical government - everyone is going to suffer except for those in power. It is literally inevitable.

Isn't nearly everyone already suffering in some way thanks to the actions of our government? Blank the corporations and banksters for everything, but our government provides the bread loaf for that mold to grow upon.



reply to post by the2ofusr1


That would be an ideal situation. But... American's don't seem to like that idea. It has been attempted in the past and loads of people say "I'm game let's do it", but when the smoke runs out or they need some burgers to barbecue, they usually fall in line. They are passionate, don't get me wrong, but passionate about the wrong things - sports, reality TV, and Flappy Bird - all a part of the consumerist corporate agenda.

We don't have the uniting factor of the old days to rally enough people behind for such an action, but it is commendable at least and it probably would work.

Doesn't Russia have about as many nukes as the American War Machine?

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


The answer to your question lies in this saying:

"Better the devil you know than the devil don't"

The unknown terrifies people so much that they'd prefer the comfort of the known tyranny then try to change things and face the unknown.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


I read the American Spring manifesto and what they are proposing is that we get a bunch of Republicans to restore Constitutional government. Isn't that exactly counter to the point you were making in your OP? We keep doing this --- going from one of the two parties to the other --- expecting things to change but they don't. Wouldn't it make FAR more sense to eliminate ALL members of EITHER party from the equation? After all, we are in the situation we find ourselves not because of any one party or any one Congress or any one Administration but through the combined efforts of BOTH parties. Neither is blameless.

To be sure, both parties are in the least incompetent and at worst criminally complicit in the destruction of our economy, the elimination of our Constitutional rights, and the erosion of the working-class to the benefit of the elite. What this American Spring proposes to do is give the henhouse to the foxes because the weasels were eating the eggs. Nope. Not buying it. As long as members of either 'established' party are part of the 'solution' I call bullcrap.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


The only problem with the fear of the unknown, in my opinion, is that the unknown is probably better.



reply to post by jtma508


Don't worry, I agree with you. The entire pulpit has to be thrown out which includes darling lings Rand and Cruz. I like those guys myself, but when it comes to spring cleaning and starting fresh, it needs to be fresh not more of the same coin different side.

I don't support the American Spring because they are pointless and will have no effect on the overall scope of things, just like Occupy did. Much of Occupy was the liberal side of the coin, this will simply be the conservative side. All party politics.

Revolution holds no party affiliation. It seeks to rid the party system altogether, considering the Founding Fathers denounced the ideas of parties to begin with.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


Brother, you are preaching to the choir. I'm just saying why no one else wants to board your boat. Personally, one of the reason I joined the military (that I've never really told anyone save those online) was to learn how to fight and fire a gun. I saw this mess coming all the way back in 2001. I wasn't fully aware of everything or how bad things would get, but I knew that something big was coming way back then and I would need to know things to survive.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


I absolutely 100% agree. Revolution is the only way. Peaceful protests will get us nowhere. It's not just the US that needs to do it either.

Let me put this very simply: NO!

There is not going to be a revolution like you envision, and if by some strange chance you managed to start one there would be a whole lot of people here to stop it in its tracks. One of your very basic problems is that you have no idea what you are saying. You can yell at a lot of other people for not doing what you want them to do, but you are ineffectual in doing anything yourself, in other words, a bunch of hot air, relegated to yelling in a backwater place like ATS.

As Hitler once said, "How many divisions does the Pope have?" Not only do you not have the means to effect change, my guess is you don't know what to change, nor do you know what to put in its place. What you would have is utter chaos which would result in you, personally, living a much worse life than you do now.

Just look at what has happened in the past when we have had "social unrest." people get upset and burn down their own neighborhoods, or they go pick on Koreans and Vietnamese who have managed to come here without even knowing the language and build businesses based on hard work. a concept that utterly eludes the entitlement generation that expects government to give them everything.

And who is better armed? You with a bunch of rocks in your pocket and a shaky knowledge of putting gasoline in coke bottles to throw at the police? Or a few million conservative NRA members just itching to be "deputized" so they can show off their marksmanship.

The point is: Be careful what you ask for. If you want an armed conflict, it's you who will be dead in the aftermath. If you toned down your rhetoric you might get something done, but at this rate all you are doing is making yourself a target.

reply to post by schuyler




I already am a target. I don't hide behind masks like anonymous. I'm sure people would salivate at the idea of taking me out.

And people here at ATS to stop me in my tracks? Please. ATS is a bastion of inaction. There would be a lot of people talking behind screens and only a handful would actually be doing anything. In fact, the handful that would be doing something would probably be fighting with me in the situation while everyone else continues business as usual.

This isn't my first rodeo. I have been on ATS for eight years now. I see the "action" ATS members take, no offense to the few who actually do take action.

"Social unrest" is not a revolution. Why would anyone waste time throwing molotovs at police? That is a riot, not a revolution. And your NRA members, a few million of them would join in a revolution just for a chance to show off their marksmanship skills.

But honestly who is better armed? 800,000 police and 1.5 million military (assuming all of them defend their mighty government) or 80 million armed Americans, many who are estranged veterans with all knowledge of military tactics and weapons systems?

I think that answer is pretty obvious.

I sense the fear in your post. That is why you assume there is no plan of action or ideas for the aftermath. You are wrong, of course, but I understand jumping to that assumption based on your fear. Not only have countless patriots provided detailed plans on how to restore Constitutional government following a revolution, but I have authored some of my own.

You get this vision stuck in your head that us revolutionaries are mindless, gun wielding drones looking to just cause destruction and kill, with no idea where we are going. That is the idea they have stuck into your head. That is wrong too. Just another doubt to throw onto the table to prevent actual action from being taken.




Since you feel revolution is not necessary, do you have any other options to present to the table that could change the government, ones that haven't been tried hundreds of times?

Or do you suggest we just wait to see what happens in this downward spiral?

TheNewRevolution
Since you feel revolution is not necessary, do you have any other options to present to the table that could change the government, ones that haven't been tried hundreds of times?

Yes. I have one. A revolution would require an organized and aligned populace. If the populace can be organized and aligned sufficiently to mount a revolution, surely it could be organized for a common political goal. That being, to vote every incumbent and every member of either the Republican or Democrat party out of office in their entirety. And then to replace them with qualified people representing the myriad of other parties that hold the Constitution at their core. If we can't organize sufficiently to at least try a political solution we would never have a chance of organizing sufficiently to mount a revolution. You can be certain that if we WERE successful in organizing a political revolt things would change very quickly in our favor. If that fails then you can switch to Plan B.

reply to post by jtma508


Much more difficult. We live in a majority ruled society. To enact political change to "vote out incumbents" you need 51% of the people to join you in that cause. That is assuming the voting system isn't rigged to begin with, which I feel it is. See 2012 presidential election and the shenanigans that went on there.

For a revolution you need a mere 1%-3% to join the cause.

If we could get 51% of the populace to join in activism even, we would probably enact some kind of change, but we can't. They don't want to or they are too busy. I'm sure if literally millions of people showed up in DC for American Spring, that would actually work, but millions aren't going to show up.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution

LOL ... I can't believe I read this thread, let alone that I'm putting any thoughts into it. Pray tell, who is in charge of logistics and who will ensure communications? I'm not even going to ask about leadership or planning ... not gonna go down the finance road.

I'm just gonna hit the reply button and wait for the 'magic' to begin.

reply to post by Snarl


Well the only road you seem to have "gone down" is the one of communications. I don't see why anyone needs to be in "charge" of communications. There are thousands of way to communicate, most commonplace - the internet. Cell phones. Radios both private and public. Hand delivered messages. Homing pigeons. Mail. Do I need to go on?

That is kind of a moot thing to focus on to be honest. No revolution has failed because of "no one being in charge of communications".

I will go down the finance road. Finance for what? The American populace are already armed. There is nothing necessary to finance. Not only that but if an all out war broke out, there would be plenty more weapons just laying around for the taking. Do you think the protesters in the Middle East worked out the finances before they toppled the governments?

Two books you can read to get a better understanding of how all this works: "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu and "Guerrilla Warfare" by Che Guevara.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


You want to know what will come from the American spring.........Nothing......NOTHING. Sorry I don't mean to yell but I am feed up.



Revolution only comes when the cost of food rises to a certain percentage of disposable income. That percentage is right around 40%. The US is under 10%. Things would have to get much worse before true change would come. This is the cold hard truth dear readers around the world. Search out this FACT and see how close your country is to........Revolution.



Think I am full of it? Truly ask yourself how many tipping points did you think you witnessed in the last 4 years? I bought into the lie also since 2008 but I am wide awake now and see the pattern of apathy that only hunger can break.

reply to post by SubTruth


The American Revolution begs to differ.

Second line.