A farewell to religion.

reply to post by graphuto


Ha nice edit.
Lies.
Goodbye I need not converse with you now I saw.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I'm sorry! I didn't close the bold tag and felt it necessary to go back and edit.

graphuto
Those who take Him at His Word and believe what He says. In the grand (universal) scheme of things, our 60-90 years on this earth are meaningless.

Eternity is just that. Eternity.

Yup some people are prone to bending down on one knee to whoever has the biggest stick, even if hes a vicious dictator.

Others (thankfully) flip the bird at such abusive dictators, and are not happy to live a life of mindless servitude

reply to post by graphuto

I'd like for you to show me some examples of how Christianity might be used (keeping in mind that we all now have access to the Bible to read for ourselves) to "control" in a bad or wrong way.

Shame: "I am not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs from under thy table."
Guilt: "I confess that I have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed blah blah"
Fear: You will go to hell forever unless you recite "Jesus is the only way."

reply to post by graphuto

The Bible doesn't say we'll be slaves in Heaven. It say's we'll be rulers and judges.

So, you want to be a ruler and judge?
And you're practicing now, right? Because your excursion into being judgmental and authoritarian while you're alive (which I don't believe the man Jesus taught at all) is like an audition? Or what?

Become a ruler and judge, or burn in tortuous hell for not agreeing to do so. Sorry, but that's what I'm hearing, and I don't get it.

ETA: Oh, and I might add to my earlier post:
"Original sin". Because of what some fictional people did in an ancient story/myth, we all suck. Only remedy: Admit you suck?

I just don't want ANYONE to be condemned to eternal torment when the alternative is simple. "Believe."

Simple.

reply to post by graphuto

I just don't want ANYONE to be condemned to eternal torment when the alternative is simple. "Believe."

Simple.

For you maybe. I don't think it's possible to just decide to Believe something. A person with a broad background and education can't just say, "Okay, today I'm going to believe." and then go to list of important things to do (bucket list) and say: check. Got it.

If a person does not believe, they do not believe. So saying they do believe would be a lie, and your God would know, wouldn't he?

Sorry - still doesn't make sense. Unless, of course, you're 3 years old, and mum and da tell you, "Well, you'd better start! Otherwise you will burn in torment forever!" So you learn to say that you believe. Nothing but rote memory.

graphuto
I just don't want ANYONE to be condemned to eternal torment when the alternative is simple. "Believe."

Simple.

So one, you believe your god would actually do that to his own creations - and two, your solution is to take the easy way out. Sorry man, but that's sad.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I just take the Bible as truth, that's all.

reply to post by graphuto

I just take the Bible as truth, that's all.

But



what if it isn't? My own research and study seem to indicate it's not anything but an anthology of myth, PR, and ancient history as told by those unable - or unwilling - to just let people live. If I'm mistaken, well, that's on me, I guess.
So far I've not been smote by lightning or turned to a pillar of salt for making mistakes.

Why would you follow a tyrant who treats his flunkies with torture? You think Gitmo is a happy place?

People are violent. It's human nature. Using the threat of violence to silence people is older than dirt.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


If it isn't then I've harmed/hurt no one.
If they don't believe in Him, they aren't his "flunkies"

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

reply to post by graphuto

If it isn't then I've harmed/hurt no one.

This is something you might want to reconsider. Telling people they will burn forever in hell if they don't believe as you do is rather.....
hurtful. Isn't it?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Not really. If it turns out to not be true, I'm just some crazy guy spouting nonsense.

By that line of logic, if I told you that you'd be trampled by a pack of unicorns tomorrow because you didn't stare at the sun all day, you'd be hurt/offended?

No, you'd just think I was crazy.

That fact that it's "hurtful" to people seems to be saying something that I can't really put my finger on...

graphuto
If it isn't then I've harmed/hurt no one.

Depending upon how you practice your religion this may or may not be true. For some it's not.

graphuto
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I just take the Bible as truth, that's all.

"I just follow the Fuhrer's orders, that's all."

"I just transport the slaves, that's all."

"I just ignore the women's suffering and mistreatment, that's all."

Amazing how that demure phrase excuses us from our roles in the most heinous of plots, eh?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs

If they don't believe in Him, they aren't his "flunkies"

I don't know where that quoted passage came from (or how to embed it properly in this post so it shows up), or what it means. That he saved them that believe by some foolishness?

We are all fools. It's part of being human.

By the way, I'm not an atheist; I just can't appreciate so-called revealed religion as something I must believe. It's only someone else's opinion that they wrote down.
???

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


It's 1 Corinthians 1:21.

I think that it means just what it says. Spiritual things cannot be explained in worldly terms, and it amuses God of the things we preach to try and save.

I mean we can explain them, but if a person chooses not to believe what the words say, then it just seems like foolishness.

reply to post by graphuto

Spiritual things cannot be explained in worldly terms, and it amuses God of the things we preach to try and save.

I agree that spiritual things cannot be explained in worldly terms. So, why try?
If God is amused, I'm happy for him - I love to laugh, and see the world and interactions as often hilarious, but equally as often tragic.

So why bother preaching at all?
God has the power to save everyone. I'm a UU.

reply to post by graphuto

Not really. If it turns out to not be true, I'm just some crazy guy spouting nonsense.

By that line of logic, if I told you that you'd be trampled by a pack of unicorns tomorrow because you didn't stare at the sun all day, you'd be hurt/offended?

No, because I'm a grown-up.

No, you'd just think I was crazy.

As an adult, yes, that's what I would think.
As a small child listening to the parents, and the entire church full of people saying it - I would be very very afraid for myself.

As I said:
shame
guilt
fear
original sin
I suck

It doesn't just "go away" without a serious fight to change one's thinking from believing they are a piece of crap to believing that they are, instead, precious, unique, and every bit as worthwhile as anyone else.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


You should be very afraid for yourself. That's the point. The beginning of wisdom is fear of God

Like it, don't like it, it matters not.

This is what the Bible says, so this is the message relayed.