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A world without religion

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posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by UltraverseMaximus
 


In a world where the meaning of words have changed it is hard to argue. Or maybe fools just ceased to exist. It's not important to say something, it's important to make sense.




posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:16 AM
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UltraverseMaximus

BayesLike
reply to post by Dianec
 


I would say it is the nature of man. I would not say it is a problem, but that it is what it is.

For example, it is the nature of lions to behave as lions: to defend territory to the death, care for their young, to kill other animals for food, to terrorize those whom they did not eat by merely being present. Is it inherently wrong for a lion to have a larger territory than they need to survive? Or to kill another lion who merely needs to hunt in the same territory to feed her cubs? Why would it be different for man or woman if there is nothing but biology and the physical?

What is it that makes something right or wrong if there is no higher ideal to appeal to? If you want to aspire to a higher ideal (say an antelope who thinks lions should be nice) why should anyone else if there is nothing to be gained from doing so (the antelope become lion food.... ) Why would man not revert to baser behavior if there was nothing but biology and the physical? Does communism or capitalism create a sense of soul or spirituality? Does either care if you or your progeny survive?


The primary difference between manimals (humans) and animals is that manimals are not only self aware as animals but we can achieve critical thinking. We can decide right or wrong based of logic not instinct.
Animals do in fact use people for experiences. At least in my experience they reflect man behaviour which reflects their behaviour. It is a bit trippy actually.
edit on 10-3-2014 by UltraverseMaximus because: (no reason given)


how'd you come upon this so-called logic?

have you suppressed all your instincts?

trippy is right! explain the animals using people for experiences thing.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:22 AM
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Dianec
reply to post by BayesLike
 


It's impossible for us to be like a lion or another animal that runs from instinct. Our brains are much different. I'm sure at one time they were more like a lions (maybe very early humans). I wouldn't want to live around humans who went from instinct only - women being raped and god knows what. We think more complex thoughts and therefore need a way to hone those on some level. We are an intriguing mix of instinct and higher order thinking (consciousness).


not sure how much rape is in the animal world.

animals have "seasons" to breed.

we still have rape in the 21st cen.

so much for that, eh?



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:26 AM
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12m8keall2c

BayesLike
reply to post by 12m8keall2c
 


Cool, but you do realize the golden rule and a sense of karma are founded in religion. So, how would these arise, or persist, in a world without religion? Do we have good examples from atheistic rulers in the 20th century who shed religion?


'founded', perhaps in the sense that 'religions' have 'taken' them over as talking points, but Not in the truest sense of basic, simple 'humanity' towards others.

no examples of such in any contemporary 'individuals' and really none throughout the history of 'mankind'.... they are/were 'typically' religiously-oriented.... otherwise their name's likely wouldn't grace the pages of our history books and the like.

against the grain doesn't typically bode well with the scribe 'recording' such.

???



who will define humanity?

dog eat dog comes to mind or might makes right, reading your post.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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oktopus
I believe there to be no discussing this with you, though I will.


So you do say a book can be interpreted. Good! What is an interpretation then, and interpretation in essence is Always right. Whatever you got wrong out of a book is not even worth calling an interpretation. Let's just call it foolishness.

I agree to a point here. The stuff I get wrong leads to a better understanding. Its all interpretation to higher understanding.


What about a mathbook. It are only numbers on paper to be interpreted. Do you care that when you ask for 5 potatoes your receive 1 pear?

This is a bit silly. If I ask for potatoes I have a reason for it and if I get a pear, then I have not fulfilled my desire for my objective, whatever that may be. Maths is used for synchronicity, it is a universal concept.


Did you reason with people likeminded to you?

Mostly no. I did not find many people likeminded to me but I reasoned with a ton of mental bullies.



You're probably right, and I do believe it is a good book for defining right and wrong.

I wont disagree as I never studied any texts. I do however feel that your opinion is strong and worthy of consideration as I know a few people who have studied the books and received a great understanding of how to be happy and content in life without interfering with others.



One is only a victim to one with knowledge if the one with knowledge is keeping knowledge from that one.

To spread religion you must have a heart and have a sense of sense. They shouldn't try to convert walls and trees.


Some people tend to see knowledge as the only source of power. It is power and that is why there are those who wish to keep it locked away for the ones they deem to be privileged and worthy. This relates to all the spiritual/religious books.
I do not think anything but wisdom and understanding needs to be spread. Cures or cancers, both are rapid acting and spread fast.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:30 AM
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I agree OP where do I sign up?
It is a cancer on the human spirit and a divider of men and bondage for women.
It will die off I give it a hundred years max.
Just keep on fighting any signs of religion in public/Government and schools, that is a good start.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:34 AM
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Dianec
reply to post by BayesLike
 


Some people do behave on instinct alone but the majority do not - lots of good people out there. Just need to see the good in them. And you can always choose to not like religion - diversity is amazing. I can't imagine a world where we all thought alike. It would be pretty bland.


I'm sorry, but the well behaved majority is but a day of no water or a few days of no food from total anarchy. And a sizable minority only awaits an opportunity where they think they won't get caught. Ever heard of looting or gangs beating people to death? You may think the majority is otherwise but history tells us something very different. That you currently live in a (local) time of plenty is good, but it is a huge mistake to believe that behavior in such times will extend to all other times. For the majority, good times merely allows a "kinder" behavior.

But things rapidly change when the situation becomes more demanding or the pressures (natural or otherwise) are sufficient. One only has to look at the axis soldiers in WWII who were under orders to round up people for extermination. I'm sure the vast majority, before the war, were very nice people -- people you would love to have as neighbors. Once the situation changed, was the majority altruistic and refused their orders? Or did the majority not even test the personal consequences of disobedience? Sure, there were some who risked their lives. Ever wonder why? Being altruistic in the face of certain death if caught is not survival behavior!



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:35 AM
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tsingtao

UltraverseMaximus

BayesLike
reply to post by Dianec
 


I would say it is the nature of man. I would not say it is a problem, but that it is what it is.

For example, it is the nature of lions to behave as lions: to defend territory to the death, care for their young, to kill other animals for food, to terrorize those whom they did not eat by merely being present. Is it inherently wrong for a lion to have a larger territory than they need to survive? Or to kill another lion who merely needs to hunt in the same territory to feed her cubs? Why would it be different for man or woman if there is nothing but biology and the physical?

What is it that makes something right or wrong if there is no higher ideal to appeal to? If you want to aspire to a higher ideal (say an antelope who thinks lions should be nice) why should anyone else if there is nothing to be gained from doing so (the antelope become lion food.... ) Why would man not revert to baser behavior if there was nothing but biology and the physical? Does communism or capitalism create a sense of soul or spirituality? Does either care if you or your progeny survive?


The primary difference between manimals (humans) and animals is that manimals are not only self aware as animals but we can achieve critical thinking. We can decide right or wrong based of logic not instinct.
Animals do in fact use people for experiences. At least in my experience they reflect man behaviour which reflects their behaviour. It is a bit trippy actually.
edit on 10-3-2014 by UltraverseMaximus because: (no reason given)


how'd you come upon this so-called logic?

have you suppressed all your instincts?

trippy is right! explain the animals using people for experiences thing.


I have instincts but they are less primal and more self aware. I do not supress the primal ones I just find ways to express them constructive without bringing harm to others. Because I accept who I am and understand who I am, it is not so difficult. What I found was trying to deny and hide things made the primal urges more intense.
Animals and insects are telepathic. They can have feelings relating to human thoughts and vice verse. Think of animals communicating in feelings and humans communicating with direct thought related ideas which create feelings in ourselves. We can give animals anxiety pretty easy as they are just in the flow of the conscious grid while we can be disconnected using our complex minds.
Trippy is using a television to put human concepts into a cats brain and have the cat respond back to the tv lol. I should have actually filmed that experience



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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UltraverseMaximus

oktopus


Some people tend to see knowledge as the only source of power. It is power and that is why there are those who wish to keep it locked away for the ones they deem to be privileged and worthy. This relates to all the spiritual/religious books.
I do not think anything but wisdom and understanding needs to be spread. Cures or cancers, both are rapid acting and spread fast.


You saying this makes me think (please don't feel attacked, I'm not intending to attack you)
You saying this makes me think there is a possibility to feel/be more efficient, though I think you are, you might have the idea you aren't. Things will prove you did not do many wrong in the past. Things will settle for you

I do believe.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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There is a world without religion, it's in the forests and valleys where humans have yet to settle or touch. Where there is society there is religion, where there is nature there is no religion, only life.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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oktopus



You saying this makes me think (please don't feel attacked, I'm not intending to attack you)
You saying this makes me think there is a possibility to feel/be more efficient, though I think you are, you might have the idea you aren't. Things will prove you did not do many wrong in the past. Things will settle for you

I do believe.


I could definitely get off my butt and start manifesting things for myself


I am still working on improving. It is never ending really. I am just reconciling the last of my thoughts before I go out into the real world again and reboot my life. I gave up my attachments to come to my realisations. Now as I get them back I will be more responsible.

edit on 10-3-2014 by UltraverseMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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reply to post by UltraverseMaximus
 


when it happens?
that would be the last time i visit ATS.

peace



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:49 AM
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3NL1GHT3N3D1
There is a world without religion, it's in the forests and valleys where humans have yet to settle or touch. Where there is society there is religion, where there is nature there is no religion, only life.


This was really smooth to my earths. No conflict just resonance.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 01:55 AM
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dodol
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus
 


when it happens?
that would be the last time i visit ATS.

peace


Websites like ATS and GLP and other conspiracy related sites are as I can simply put, windows for consciousness. It became obvious to me that it would be much easier sharing my experiences this way without having any people expect anything from me. Besides psi ops agents need to be put in their place right


Oh wow I have the freakiest story from GLP about a ops agent who I broke mentally. If you want to hear it.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by BayesLike
 


"which religion started WWI and WWII? Which religion accounted for the deaths of over 100 million in the Soviet Union, China, and many other communist countries in the 20th century"

All religions including atheist, agnostic basically all "istics". Science was only a tool (weapons) to make the impact lethal.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 03:19 AM
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An Agnostic speaks...
So go and get rid of the religions... what has changed? An initial boost in comprehension might seem apparent, but unless you also manage to get rid of political parties, maybe even ethnicity, even then group think drive humans will find a way. Like the notion pushed hard in the first Jurassic Park film, life will find a way. Retardation will find a way, especially in a mass culture bent on quazi-retardation.
.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 03:45 AM
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IgnoranceIsntBlisss
An Agnostic speaks...
So go and get rid of the religions... what has changed? An initial boost in comprehension might seem apparent, but unless you also manage to get rid of political parties, maybe even ethnicity, even then group think drive humans will find a way. Like the notion pushed hard in the first Jurassic Park film, life will find a way. Retardation will find a way, especially in a mass culture bent on quazi-retardation.
.


I am thinking just bring more awareness into them and keep them out of societies structure. People will do people things so can only try to help with that. It is not like we as a collective cant figure everything out without more death and destruction.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 04:20 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by slowisfast
 


Which lord?
Hitler was a Theosophist.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." ~ Hitler

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." ~ Hitler

Seems clear to me what Lord he believed to be representing.



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by BayesLike
 


"According to the United Nations’ Human Development Report (2005), the most atheistic societies—countries like Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark, and the United Kingdom—are actually the healthiest, as indicated by measures of life expectancy, adult literacy, per-capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate, and infant mortality. Conversely, the fifty nations now ranked lowest by the UN in terms of human development are unwaveringly religious."

The Myth of Secular Moral Chaos

All I am really getting from your posts is that we depend on religion for morality. That atheists should then be immoral. I don't see that reflected in reality. Just in the reality of many religious people's minds.



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