A world without religion

I have decided to make a post to share some of my thoughts regarding religions and how I think the world has been shaped as a result.

The first thing I want to address is the fact a book is just a book, just words on paper to be interpreted. When it comes to religions people either believe in the book literally or they will believe in the contents of the book philosophically.

The problem with believing in the book literally arises with mental illness. I say illness because I can observe a severe lack of logical reasoning with certain mind sets and as a result all communications break down very easy. In these instances references to quoted pages of the texts fly to justify reason rather than thoughts from the individuals own mind.

I do believe such texts are valuable in terms of history and heritage but not when it comes to defining right or wrong to other individuals. Without the information contained in such texts society would have evolved slower philosophically as the wisdom contained would not be available to everyone as it is today.

Today society has clearly gone past the need for religions to exist outside the individuals own house, which to religious cults is also called a "church". This external glorification and idolisation of something greater than man and life is the reason that division exists from the ground to the top when it comes to the mind of an individual.

Knowledge can be a tool for self empowerment, however if this knowledge has not been discerned on merit then the individual will be susceptible to some greater force of leverage and manipulation. To put another way they will be a victim to the keeper of their knowledge that they are seeking. This will lead to exploitable tendencies as knowledge should be free and available to everyone if the intent was not exploit.

So without main stream religions being externalised on every front, I can see a world where people are no longer trying to prove who is right or wrong to the death and a world where everyone is able to learn from mistakes without extreme prejudice and unnecessary suffering. I do not claim the world will without struggle if there was no religious propaganda but genocide would certainly be a thing of the past. That is what religions have instilled into many people who have been indoctrinate into belief systems, my way or the high way kind of mind set which lead to racism no matter anyone wants to look at it. In this case the schism is not race specific but rather sections of all races across the planet.
It is easy to do these horrific things in the name of something "greater" and feel justified but no one will never be justified killing in the name of.

The sad part is that there is not a religious person on the planet who could prove anything to me or display a working knowledge regarding the universe and how it operates. I could however prove to anyone who wants to know without a doubt where the mental confusion is deep rooted. When I use religious I am specifically talking about the bible 'bashers', not the ones who have come to understand the true meaning behind the philosophies in all the texts.

A world without religion would be awesome.

UltraverseMaximus
I have decided to make a post to share some of my thoughts regarding religions and how I think the world has been shaped as a result.


The sad part is that there is not a religious person on the planet who could prove anything to me or display a working knowledge regarding the universe and how it operates. I could however prove to anyone who wants to know without a doubt where the mental confusion is deep rooted. When I use religious I am specifically talking about the bible 'bashers', not the ones who have come to understand the true meaning behind the philosophies in all the texts.

i guess it's case closed then.

nice post, didn't really understand it, tho.

reply to post by UltraverseMaximus


Just curious, since we would have all been better off, do tell me which religion started WWI and WWII? Which religion accounted for the deaths of over 100 million in the Soviet Union, China, and many other communist countries in the 20th century?

And I'm also curious as to what makes you think that, without religion, "right" would not be defined by might?

reply to post by Buddyweiser



Great. I'm in. Let's start by getting rid of Islam.

tsingtao

UltraverseMaximus
I have decided to make a post to share some of my thoughts regarding religions and how I think the world has been shaped as a result.


The sad part is that there is not a religious person on the planet who could prove anything to me or display a working knowledge regarding the universe and how it operates. I could however prove to anyone who wants to know without a doubt where the mental confusion is deep rooted. When I use religious I am specifically talking about the bible 'bashers', not the ones who have come to understand the true meaning behind the philosophies in all the texts.

i guess it's case closed then.

nice post, didn't really understand it, tho.

Nah close never closed , I do need to talk about spiritualty and where it ties in so that more context can be achieved.

reply to post by UltraverseMaximus


Ah yes, let's talk about the spirituality of being a pure communist or capitalist. Without religion, there is no sense (other than a mental disorder) that there is existence of anything beyond your present life. When you die, it all ends for you. What type of moral sense does that inspire? Altruism or greed?

do tell me which religion started WWI and WWII?

Europe was unquestionably christian in the early 20th century. In fact, Hitler said his genocide was doing the lord's work.

BayesLike
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus

 

Just curious, since we would have all been better off, do tell me which religion started WWI and WWII? Which religion accounted for the deaths of over 100 million in the Soviet Union, China, and many other communist countries in the 20th century?

And I'm also curious as to what makes you think that, without religion, "right" would not be defined by might?

I never said we would have been better off but I did imply we will be better off now though. The issue is trying to blame a religion for these things in the first place. Many people that died were not fighting for the religion, however religions were the string pullers and money mongers behind the living guns (people).

Religions could be specified better as a system of beliefs one holds over another's.

For you final enquiry, I believe that I know right and wrong at the core level and almost always have since I was a child. I feel the texts outline ideas for the specific time and it has carried over to today reducing many personal freedoms through fear of so called sins.
I do not think people need these text books to define right or wrong, these are subjective and dependent on the culture of society and the times we live in.

helius
reply to post by Buddyweiser

 

Great. I'm in. Let's start by getting rid of Islam.

Why do we need to get rid of anything, it seems more plausible to bring awareness to the meanings of the texts so people stop dying for their beliefs.

reply to post by CB328


So, which religion started the war? Was it a synod of bishops of a particular Protestant sect who decided to annex countries by force and slay millions without just cause? The Pope?

Oh, excuse me. Just cause has no meaning without religion other than who decides what "just" means.

reply to post by UltraverseMaximus


So, then, which religion was the string puller for WWI and WWII? Which religion was the string puller for Lenin and Stalin? Or Mao, or Pohl Pot? Again was it a synod of bishops, the Pope, the Dali Lama who did the string pulling?

BayesLike
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus

 

Ah yes, let's talk about the spirituality of being a pure communist or capitalist. Without religion, there is no sense (other than a mental disorder) that there is existence of anything beyond your present life. When you die, it all ends for you. What type of moral sense does that inspire? Altruism or greed?

edit on 215pm14America/Chicago07010kAmerica/Chicago by BayesLike because: (no reason given)

Well I don't bring spirituality into the systems of man such as communist or capitalist. But I will talk about those for you.
In society there are two options presented for lifestyle choices. This is not true. Why does it have to be one or the other? Why cant there be options that incorporate fair systems that cap out at an acceptable level. Why do people want excess while others suffer basically. I do believe in reward for hard work, but I also believe that people should realise what they are working for.

You are incorrect about without religions there is no sense. I never said it was all over red rover nothing more to see here when you die. I want people to prosper when I am gone. Not just for my family but all life. I don't need to think there is no point because there is for me, to make life better while I have life. The individuals attitude is largely responsible for accepting this responsibility or taking their own selfish path without care for future living generations. I ask you this question, doesn't the belief in a heaven or afterlife make a person careless and irresponsible while here if they feel it is just a "step" to something greater?

BayesLike
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus

 

So, then, which religion was the string puller for WWI and WWII? Which religion was the string puller for Lenin and Stalin? Or Mao, or Pohl Pot? Again was it a synod of bishops, the Pope, the Dali Lama who did the string pulling?

Trace it back to the money if you want to point fingers. There is no point talking about a skin sore while the infection lies in the blood.

reply to post by UltraverseMaximus


I'd venture your sense of right and wrong would be quite different without the same parents, family, and other influences in your life. If there had been no religion for hundreds or thousands of years, it's a pretty good bet that each would be out for themselves or at least their family. If there were a legal system, it would be one to preserve the rulers at the time -- whether king, local despot, or faithless state like communism.

UltraverseMaximus

BayesLike
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus

 

You are incorrect about without religions there is no sense. I never said it was all over red rover nothing more to see here when you die. I want people to prosper when I am gone. Not just for my family but all life. I don't need to think there is no point because there is for me, to make life better while I have life. The individuals attitude is largely responsible for accepting this responsibility or taking their own selfish path without care for future living generations. I ask you this question, doesn't the belief in a heaven or afterlife make a person careless and irresponsible while here if they feel it is just a "step" to something greater?

You want people to prosper after you are gone? Why would anyone care? Did Stalin or Hitler care? They are good models for a world without religion. It is "right" to obey your superiors and "wrong" to disobey." Someone will rule, the rest will obey or suffer. You really think you and all the rest of humanity going forward would be free to do as you do today when there is no basis for a sense of right and wrong? Laws and culture are temporary, and very short lived at best, compared to religious ideals. How long did democracy rule in Germany before Hitler?

BayesLike
reply to post by UltraverseMaximus

 

I'd venture your sense of right and wrong would be quite different without the same parents, family, and other influences in your life. If there had been no religion for hundreds or thousands of years, it's a pretty good bet that each would be out for themselves or at least their family. If there were a legal system, it would be one to preserve the rulers at the time -- whether king, local despot, or faithless state like communism.

I will tell you about my family to give you some background since you want to bring them into the discussion.
My mum left my dad when I was two. I lived with my brother with her. She was a hippy type naturist.
I never really spent much time with my dad. He is a hermit and very simple. Like farming and breeding birds. Tried to breed a black budgie lol

I was never exposed to heavy religions. My mum married a step dad who was a control freak. I lived under a mixture of freedom and oppression most of my life. My brother is an ambitious achiever and I am the opposite.
I had to learn everything on my own without much support other than my mums love and care. We were poor but mum married a guy who was stable wealth wise. Had the basics but had to work hard for my own as I was locked into a support system that I had no control over.

As it stands I am not close with anyone in my family. I get along with them all however to me they are the same as anyone else. If they respect me I respect them back. I never took "family ties" for granted as it was just another form of manipulation to me. I love my family but that is not a birthright. It is an earned right and goes both ways.

The legal system is a corrupt mess that is only as good as the person can use 'word magic'. I would make a great lawyer lol. I do believe we need systems to mediate disputes and personal violations but currently the one man made is not fair and just in any sense due to money and belief systems behind the scenes.

BayesLike

You want people to prosper after you are gone? Why would anyone care? Did Stalin or Hitler care?

Yes I do and what do they have to do with me? What does what other people think have to do with what I can achieve?

They are good models for a world without religion. It is "right" to obey your superiors and "wrong" to disobey." Someone will rule, the rest will obey or suffer. You really think you and all the rest of humanity going forward would be free to do as you do today when there is no basis for a sense of right and wrong?

No one is superior to me however people will have this illusion. You have an 'elitist' mindset. Who said only 'one' shall rule anyway, that is a bit short sighted I think. We need people in charge, leaders by example but I don't think they would need to hold themselves in a higher opinion than others. They would be the example for others to hold themselves too.
Where are you getting your ideas about a basis for right and wrong not being able to be defined without a hand book. Do you think nature comes with a hand book? It would be doing fine without man interfering all the time. Anyway all you need to know is that people should treat people they way they want/expect to be treated. The golden rule to work out right and wrong to each person without needing much guidance other than a parent to oversee the process and show awareness when the child lacks it.

Laws and culture are temporary, and very short lived at best, compared to religious ideals. How long did democracy rule in Germany before Hitler?

I do think laws need to be amended and many laws removed. The system is a mess of loopholes and in discrepancies in my opinion.
This is actually a good point too because when things are inscribed into words/symbols on paper/medium, they become ideas stuck in time. Time moves forward so do ideas need to change with cultures.

reply to post by UltraverseMaximus


Who says there will be an elite who rules? History. Not me. Can you show evidence otherwise? Is there an ancient culture, or present culture, which has had no religion and has developed what you believe are rules and obligations you feel are "right" as opposed to "wrong?" Has there been a culture in which the leaders have been less than religious and also been altruistic toward all? Can we even look at an animal model, where no organized religion is known to exist, and find that in all cases there is "goodness" and "fairness" and "politeness?"

What, without religion, would make greed, power, and lust wrong? That it bothers someone else? Why would caring about how anyone else feels matter without religion? Do give this from the point of view of someone who doesn't care at all about what comes after they are gone as many, perhaps the majority, would not care about anyone other than possibly their own progeny? Do any of the areligious animals care about the other animals?

The sad part is that there is not a religious person on the planet who could prove anything to me or display a working knowledge regarding the universe and how it operates. I could however prove to anyone who wants to know without a doubt where the mental confusion is deep rooted. When I use religious I am specifically talking about the bible 'bashers', not the ones who have come to understand the true meaning behind the philosophies in all the texts.

reply to post by UltraverseMaximus



So what your really saying is that some extremists are the problem - or those who don't really internalize or interpret it as it is meant to be? Most people who associate with one belief system over another aren't extremist. You might also say some extremists aren't violent - Jesus and the Dalai Lama as two examples - all about peace. It is people who are the problem - not the deeper ways of life religions promote.