Ukraine's Military Mobilizes, Prepares For Combat: Trucks, APCs, SAMs, Howitzers, Tanks Rolling Out

pirhanna
Just to be clear - Russia has troops in Ukraine at the request of the Ukrainian elected government, which was recently ousted by a coup involving foreign powers, and has always had some troops in Crimea.

Just to be clear he was lawfully removed from officer per the Ukrainian Constitution. I know people are fighting this tooth and nail.

Secondly, the note the Russian Ambassador had about that request was not signed by anyone. Nor has it ever been authenticated from what I have seen, from any side of this mess.

Third, where is the former President? If in fact he did die, Russian has one hell of a problem since they no longer have any authority to be in Ukraine (if you subscribe to Putins level of thinking).

pirhanna
Hopefully, everyone will chill out, Russia will make no assault, and the coup leaders will quit listening to their puppetmasters.

Russia in fact invaded Ukraine.

If you are going to invoke the Ukrainian constitution to support your argument, you cannot then ignore it when its inconvenient to your position.

Crimea is autonomous, NOT independent under Ukrainian Constitution.
Crimea is prohibited from carrying out any referendum on independence on their own.
Crimea is prohibited from making changes to the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Crimea is prohibited from requesting foreign military assistance.
Russia is in violation of their agreement with Ukraine concerning the situation in Crimea (number/type of forces)** For those who wish to dispute this feelf ree to read the actual agreement and then come back.
Russia is in violation of their agreement with Ukraine by having their military fan out across the Crimea.
Russia has committed an act of war by not only invading Ukraine, but also by blocking Ukrainian ports / naval vessels.
Russia and Crimea are now in violation of the UN Charter (invading a sovereign nation / Crimeas actions under Ukrainian Constitution / Budapest agreement (Crimea and Russia).

Lets see some glaring issues in Russia's position -
They invoke Ukrainian law / constitution and ignore it when it doesn't work in their favor.
They claim they were requested to enter Ukraine from the former President. The Russian position is the President of Ukraine is still the lawful leader. If that is the case, then why did Russia only invade Crimea? The President was the President of all Ukraine right?

If Putin freely admits the President has no political future in Ukraine, then why are they invading it at the former Presidents request? and again, why just Crimea?

Why is it ok for Russia to send in Russian forces to protect ethnic Russians while at the same time Russian troops / Cossack's attack pro Ukrainian resident in Crimea? That very act, based on Putin's logic, would allow any nation to in turn invade Ukrainian Crimea in an effort to protect Ukrainian citizens from Russian occupation forces / Cossacks.

If there is such an overwhelming majority of support for Russia in Crimea, the why did they close down all media outlets and replace those broadcasts with Russian media only?

If the majority of Crimean's want to join Russia then why is foreign media, instead of being paraded around to all the pro Russia supporters, being threatened / shot at / denied entry?

Absolutely none of the above would have been required if Putin was telling the truth.

Yes, Putin didn't tell the truth, his attempt to get Ukraine to fire first has blown up in his ace, the Ukrainians in Crimea are not all in favor of leaving / annexed by Russia, and the UN wants evidence to support his actions, which he cant provide.

The only way to deescalate Is for Russia to withdraws its invasion force, send troops back to the Crimea bases that are authorized to be there and let Ukraine deal with their internal issues.

Since the referendum in Crimea is not lawful and violates international law, the moment Russian forces / Russian controlled forces / Russian controlled defense militias fire on Ukrainian military units, Ukraine can invoke UN VII article 51 and make an immediate request for military assistance.

With Some of the latest Russian actions towards Turkey and their position, Putin just seems to want to start a war. Its one he will not win.

MAYBE ITS A WAR THAT PUTIN WILL NOT WIN...BUT HELL JUST TAKE HIS 70 BILLION DOLLAR PRIVATE FORTUNE AND MOVE ON TO BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS.....THE POOR SLOBS WHO GET TO ACTUALLY DO THE HEAVY LIFTING WILL BE LUCKY TO GET OUT OF IT WHOLE.....
We just gotta teach that Putin guy a lesson though..........!He cant get away with that!

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military is maybe just setting up their own line of defense outside the Russian lines to stop any further encroachement?..............naw I don't think so.............

Xcathdra

pirhanna
Just to be clear - Russia has troops in Ukraine at the request of the Ukrainian elected government, which was recently ousted by a coup involving foreign powers, and has always had some troops in Crimea.

Just to be clear he was lawfully removed from officer per the Ukrainian Constitution. I know people are fighting this tooth and nail.

Secondly, the note the Russian Ambassador had about that request was not signed by anyone. Nor has it ever been authenticated from what I have seen, from any side of this mess.

Third, where is the former President? If in fact he did die, Russian has one hell of a problem since they no longer have any authority to be in Ukraine (if you subscribe to Putins level of thinking).

pirhanna
Hopefully, everyone will chill out, Russia will make no assault, and the coup leaders will quit listening to their puppetmasters.

Russia in fact invaded Ukraine.

If you are going to invoke the Ukrainian constitution to support your argument, you cannot then ignore it when its inconvenient to your position.

Crimea is autonomous, NOT independent under Ukrainian Constitution.
Crimea is prohibited from carrying out any referendum on independence on their own.
Crimea is prohibited from making changes to the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Crimea is prohibited from requesting foreign military assistance.
Russia is in violation of their agreement with Ukraine concerning the situation in Crimea (number/type of forces)** For those who wish to dispute this feelf ree to read the actual agreement and then come back.
Russia is in violation of their agreement with Ukraine by having their military fan out across the Crimea.
Russia has committed an act of war by not only invading Ukraine, but also by blocking Ukrainian ports / naval vessels.
Russia and Crimea are now in violation of the UN Charter (invading a sovereign nation / Crimeas actions under Ukrainian Constitution / Budapest agreement (Crimea and Russia).

Lets see some glaring issues in Russia's position -
They invoke Ukrainian law / constitution and ignore it when it doesn't work in their favor.
They claim they were requested to enter Ukraine from the former President. The Russian position is the President of Ukraine is still the lawful leader. If that is the case, then why did Russia only invade Crimea? The President was the President of all Ukraine right?

If Putin freely admits the President has no political future in Ukraine, then why are they invading it at the former Presidents request? and again, why just Crimea?

Why is it ok for Russia to send in Russian forces to protect ethnic Russians while at the same time Russian troops / Cossack's attack pro Ukrainian resident in Crimea? That very act, based on Putin's logic, would allow any nation to in turn invade Ukrainian Crimea in an effort to protect Ukrainian citizens from Russian occupation forces / Cossacks.

If there is such an overwhelming majority of support for Russia in Crimea, the why did they close down all media outlets and replace those broadcasts with Russian media only?

If the majority of Crimean's want to join Russia then why is foreign media, instead of being paraded around to all the pro Russia supporters, being threatened / shot at / denied entry?

Absolutely none of the above would have been required if Putin was telling the truth.

Yes, Putin didn't tell the truth, his attempt to get Ukraine to fire first has blown up in his ace, the Ukrainians in Crimea are not all in favor of leaving / annexed by Russia, and the UN wants evidence to support his actions, which he cant provide.

The only way to deescalate Is for Russia to withdraws its invasion force, send troops back to the Crimea bases that are authorized to be there and let Ukraine deal with their internal issues.

Since the referendum in Crimea is not lawful and violates international law, the moment Russian forces / Russian controlled forces / Russian controlled defense militias fire on Ukrainian military units, Ukraine can invoke UN VII article 51 and make an immediate request for military assistance.

With Some of the latest Russian actions towards Turkey and their position, Putin just seems to want to start a war. Its one he will not win.

edit on 10-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Just to be clear here---do you speak Russian and Ukrainian? Read both?

stirling
MAYBE ITS A WAR THAT PUTIN WILL NOT WIN...BUT HELL JUST TAKE HIS 70 BILLION DOLLAR PRIVATE FORTUNE AND MOVE ON TO BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS.....THE POOR SLOBS WHO GET TO ACTUALLY DO THE HEAVY LIFTING WILL BE LUCKY TO GET OUT OF IT WHOLE.....
We just gotta teach that Putin guy a lesson though..........!He cant get away with that!

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military is maybe just setting up their own line of defense outside the Russian lines to stop any further encroachement?..............naw I don't think so.............

Ukraine is not going to accept Russia's invasion of Crimea.

The Ukrainian force deployment, from people speculating, might be geared towards E. Ukraine areas. Depending on which media you listen follow there are supposedly issues being created by Russian forces (the other side is Blackwater being there to stir things up.. take your pick).

Moldova is apparently another point of contention and it was raised at the UN security council meeting. Apparently there are Russian forces in 3 "autonomous" provinces in Moldova and those opposition leaders have been meeting with Russians. The location of Moldova and the possibility of Russian forces raises the stakes even more, since they are in Ukraine's backyard .

Any confirmation about the back and forth between Russia and Turkey? Turkey has scrambled a few military flights this week in response to Russian military jets flying close to their border. I have seen talk about Russia being concerned about Turkey becoming involved (large tartar population apparently).

I have found no credible sources discussing it, so im not sure if it just has not made the news / confirmed or if its just more bs (like the attack on the Russian embassy in Kiev).

I think we have to wait and see, how this will develop.
My best guess is (and what I would be doing as a russian commander), I'll wait until the ucrainian forces starting to show up. Then provoke.. provoke.. provoke until someone looses his nerves and starts shooting at the russian forces. By then, I can declare, that my forces are only defeding themselves, the russian population and the russian base in Sevastopol.
So I can still be the good guy and the ucrainians are the bad boys...

Just wait and see

This is pretty old news. It was being reported here in the UK that Ukraine was displaying its "military might" (you can all sit back on your chairs now) and the landmines were covered in the main thread on this crisis in the World War 3 forum. Also, there was a picture floating around showing hundreds of disused tanks in a Ukranian military base so if that's anything to go by those APC's we saw rolling out probably broke down once everyone switched off their camera phones.

Whatever Ukraine do now is going to be ineffective because Russia have already started building their defences around Crimea and inside mainland Ukraine. If anything Ukraine need to strike Russia by surprise.

Xcathdra
Ukraine is not going to accept Russia's invasion of Crimea.

What are they going to do?

Kick them out?
Throw a tantrum?

The quicker Ukraine realizes Crimea is now Russian the better for everyone.

What was it Americans taught us? There are no freedom fighters only terrorists?

Crimea is the new Iraq.. Let the Russians free the Crimean s from the evil Ukrainians

Agit8dChop
What are they going to do?

Kick them out?
Throw a tantrum?

The quicker Ukraine realizes Crimea is now Russian the better for everyone.

What was it Americans taught us? There are no freedom fighters only terrorists?

Crimea is the new Iraq.. Let the Russians free the Crimean s from the evil Ukrainians

You underestimate the Ukrainian people and the level of support for Russia. Just because there has been no resistance doesn't mean there wont be resistance.

Personally this whole think can be stopped however I don't see Putin backing down.

The next step is to consult with Ukraine. I would welcome them into NATO, deploy forces to prevent any further Russian aggression and go from there.

Putin wants to claim the government in Keiv is illegal and that they are not following the Ukrainian Constitution - Fair enough.

The same argument can be applied to Putin and Crimea. Their actions also violated the Ukrainian Constitution and are illegal.

Now that Russian / Cossack forces are in place we are seeing an upswing in violence against those who have no desire to be a part of Russia. Turkey has a large Tarter population. Using Putins book they would be justified in invading Crimea to protect Tarters from racist aggression of Russia / Cossack's.

When you get time feel free to probe about the interwebz. Specifically NATO nation military movement.

reply to post by SubTruth


Are you serious? Do you believe in free media? I have 911 reasons not to believe this...

There are many points of view (spiced with propaganda), but only one truth.

Time will tell...

When the "brave 300" visited their air base and the guards (sorry, invaders) fired warning shots, somebody shouted: "America is with us..."

It was cut out from BBC News:

BBC

In this video at 1:14 you can hear clearly (in Russian from American supported Ukrainian): Америка с нами!

300

SubTruth
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Russia does not support freedom of the press or any other freedom for that matter. What news we get out of Russia is state sponsored propaganda.



I would love for one of the pro-Russia posters to answer me a simple question if Russia is so free and holds the moral high ground why can they not have free media?




Make up your own mind...........Mine is made.

edit on 9-3-2014 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-3-2014 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)

I really need to ask you the same about america, but that wont go with your world views amirite?

Agit8dChop

Xcathdra
Ukraine is not going to accept Russia's invasion of Crimea.

What are they going to do?

Kick them out?
Throw a tantrum?

The quicker Ukraine realizes Crimea is now Russian the better for everyone.

What was it Americans taught us? There are no freedom fighters only terrorists?

Crimea is the new Iraq.. Let the Russians free the Crimean s from the evil Ukrainians

You kinda contradict yourself.......Iraq is not really controlled by the US anymore. How far would you go to protect your home?


Personally I hope the good people of Ukraine rise up and push these scum bags out of there country. Russia will not just stop with them they have a bigger plan and if I was living in Poland I would be very nervous.

SubTruth

Agit8dChop

Xcathdra
Ukraine is not going to accept Russia's invasion of Crimea.

What are they going to do?

Kick them out?
Throw a tantrum?

The quicker Ukraine realizes Crimea is now Russian the better for everyone.

What was it Americans taught us? There are no freedom fighters only terrorists?

Crimea is the new Iraq.. Let the Russians free the Crimean s from the evil Ukrainians

You kinda contradict yourself.......Iraq is not really controlled by the US anymore. How far would you go to protect your home?


Personally I hope the good people of Ukraine rise up and push these scum bags out of there country. Russia will not just stop with them they have a bigger plan and if I was living in Poland I would be very nervous.

Correct, Iraq busted USs butt good. Yeah let the ukranians rise and kick out the neonazi fascist regime that has putsch'ed its way to power. Somehow I dont think you are propaganda free, smh...

Yusomad
I really need to ask you the same about america, but that wont go with your world views amirite?

Lets see -
In America I can access western media, Chinese media, Russian media, middle East media.

In Crimea - They can only access Russian media.

I don't see the US rushing to shut down RT's US locations do you?
Can you say the same about western media in Russia and Crimea?

Free media is important.. If for no other reason that it would prevent comments like below.

Yusomad
Correct, Iraq busted USs butt good. Yeah let the ukranians rise and kick out the neonazi fascist regime that has putsch'ed its way to power. Somehow I dont think you are propaganda free, smh...

If Iraq busted our butts good, then why is Hussein dead? I will give you some time to search the Russian media for your answer.

in the mean time if we want to dicuss who got their butt busted good lets look at the Soviet Union when Germany rolled over them to the outskirts of Moscow...

thank god for winter eh?

reply to post by Xcathdra


The hussein that was rumsfeld friend? The big US asset in middle east to bash iran, that is, utill he got sick of US meddling. You really need to ask your handlers for tips, its getting sloppy.

Seen your edit. You have no idea whatsowever about WW2 or eastern front right? Because your edit just displays that, but dont worry, I dont want to change you, ignorant and all.

reply to post by Yusomad


Cant attack the facts, you attack the person. And sure, the same Hussein who was also supported by the Soviet Union.

When you find the facts to counter my post, feel free to post them. Until then how bout you stop with the personal attacks?

Xcathdra
reply to post by Yusomad

 

Cant attack the facts, you attack the person. And sure, the same Hussein who was also supported by the Soviet Union.

When you find the facts to counter my post, feel free to post them. Until then how bout you stop with the personal attacks?

edit on 10-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

You displayed utter ignorance regarding WW2 eastern front, is that not correct? Was saddam hussein not under the rumsfeld-US umbrella? And of course, as soon as he fell to the wayside russia was ready to pick up the slack, or did you miss that too? The truth is not a personal attack, is just that, like it or not.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Where are you getting your informations from?

All EU and U.S. politicians know that people do not support the putschists, who are now self-styled new government.

Indeed, while Putin watched sports in Sochi, the Brown Revolution succeeded in Ukraine. A great European country the size of France, the biggest republic of the former USSR (save Russia), was taken over by a coalition of Ukrainian ultra-nationalists and (mainly Jewish) oligarchs. The legitimate president was forced to flee for his very life. Members of Parliament were manhandled, and in some cases their children were taken hostage to ensure their vote, as their houses were visited by gunmen. The putsch was completed. The West recognised the new government; Russia refused to recognise it, but continued to deal with it on a day -to-day basis. However the real story is now developing in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, a story of resistance to the pro-Western takeover.

About the the Crimean Peninsula:

There was an attempt to play the Crimean Tatars against the Russians; apparently it failed. Though the majlis, their self-appointed organisation, supports Kiev, the elders spoke up for neutrality. There are persistent rumours that the colourful Chechen leader Mr Kadyrov, a staunch supporter of Mr Putin, had sent his squads to the Tatars to strong-arm them into dropping their objections to Crimea’s switch to Russia. At the beginning, the Tatars supported Kiev, and even tried to prevent the pro-Russian takeover. But these wise people are born survivors, they know when to adjust their attitudes, and there is no doubt they will manage just fine.

Russian Nazis, as anti-Putin as Ukrainian Nazis, are divided: some support a “Russian Crimea” whilst others prefer pro-European Kiev. They are bad as enemies, but even worse as friends: the supportive Nazis try to wedge between Russians and Ukrainians and Tatars, and they hate to see that Kadyrov’s Chechnya actually helps Russian plans, for they are anti-Chechen and try to convince people that Russia is better off without Chechens, a warlike Muslim tribe.

About Ukrainian Army:

The Ukraine hasn’t got much of an army, as the oligarchs stole everything ever assigned to the military. The Kiev regime does not rely on its army anyway. Their attempt to draft able-bodied men failed immediately as hardly anybody answered the call. They still intend to squash the revolution. Another three hundred Blackwater mercenaries landed Wednesday in Kiev airport. The Kiev regime applied for NATO help and expressed its readiness to allow US missiles to be stationed in the Ukraine. Missiles in the Ukraine (as now stationed in Poland, also too close for Russian comfort) would probably cross Russia’s red line, just as Russian missiles in Cuba crossed America’s red line in 1962. Retired Israeli intelligence chief Yaakov Kedmi, an expert on Russia, said that in his view the Russians just can’t allow that, at any price, even if this means all-out war.

Read more:

The Ukrainian Pendulum

reply to post by maghun

Hello I'm new to ATS ..Have to say its a great way to learn about diffrent stuff . Question - Everyone's been referencing Russia n Chechnya , did russia also invade it to protect pro-russian people there ?

reply to post by Foxtrot7x


Chechen Republic

In 1991, Chechnya declared independence and was named the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. According to some sources, from 1991 to 1994, tens of thousands of people of non-Chechen ethnicity (mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Armenians) left the republic amidst reports of violence and discrimination against the non-Chechen population.[24][25][26] Other sources do not identify displacement as a significant factor in the events of the period, instead focussing on the deteriorating domestic situation within Chechnya, the aggressive politics of the Chechyen President, Dzhokhar Dudayev, and the domestic political ambitions of Russian President Boris Yeltsin.[27][28]

Chechnya

Chechen freedom fighters (mafia)

The Chechen mafia (Chechen: Нохчийн мафи) (Russian: Чеченская мафия Chechenskaya mafia) is one of the largest organized crime groups operating in the former Soviet Union next to established Russian mafia gangs, which originally consisted of criminals of Chechen ethnicity who later also tried to recruit former Russian special military forces, police and army officers. It has substantially decreased its presence in Moscow by 1994 after Slavic mafia groups united against their Chechen counterpart, with assistance from Russian police and the FSB (the former KGB). As it happened most of Chechen gang members returned to Chechnya and joined the rising Chechen separatist movement.

Chechen Mafia

The elite of Chechnya: Chechen "politicians"

Yusomad
You displayed utter ignorance regarding WW2 eastern front, is that not correct?

No it would not be correct. What did the Soviet Union do that allowed them to be victorious on that front.

Yusomad
Was saddam hussein not under the rumsfeld-US umbrella? And of course, as soon as he fell to the wayside russia was ready to pick up the slack, or did you miss that too?

Just as Syria / Iran / Egypt / Jordan were all under the soviet umbrella.

Yusomad
The truth is not a personal attack, is just that, like it or not.

Its a personal attack.