It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Anthropological Effects: From acid rain to chemtrials and the mediation methods

page: 6
5
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 09:04 PM
link   

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Any actual EVIDENCE that this was in order to make more contrails?? Or again are we supposed to take you word for it?

I certainly recall lots of articles in Flight magazine through the 80's and 90's talking about the improvements in fuel efficiency and reduction in NOx and SOX pollutants that new engines achieved - but that wasn't in order to create more contrails AFAIK.



Most intelligent people in aircraft engine design would know the improvements also came from high by-pass designs with high compression, and with the stigma of the black smog being connected with global warming, they also needed a lot more white smog to counter the IR absorption into Mie Scattering and more IR reflection.

They wanted an environmental impact statement that didn't connect them to global warming, which would eventually shut them down or limit their numbers. Simple logic.




posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 09:10 PM
link   

MagnumOpus

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


Any actual EVIDENCE that this was in order to make more contrails?? Or again are we supposed to take you word for it?

I certainly recall lots of articles in Flight magazine through the 80's and 90's talking about the improvements in fuel efficiency and reduction in NOx and SOX pollutants that new engines achieved - but that wasn't in order to create more contrails AFAIK.



Most intelligent people in aircraft engine design would know the improvements also came from high by-pass designs with high compression, and with the stigma of the black smog being connected with global warming, they also needed a lot more white smog to counter the IR absorption into Mie Scattering and more IR reflection.

They wanted an environmental impact statement that didn't connect them to global warming, which would eventually shut them down or limit their numbers. Simple logic.





Got a link for this part? Or is this conjecture on your part?
edit on 10-3-2014 by minkmouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 09:36 PM
link   

MagnumOpus
[
Most intelligent people in aircraft engine design would know the improvements also came from high by-pass designs with high compression,


Which increases efficiency and reduces pollution


and with the stigma of the black smog being connected with global warming,


which it was not.


they also needed a lot more white smog to counter the IR absorption into Mie Scattering and more IR reflection.


ROFL - no-one knows that now, let alone 40 years ago!!


They wanted an environmental impact statement that didn't connect them to global warming, which would eventually shut them down or limit their numbers. Simple logic.



Complete failure - black trails were never anything more than pollution - global warming wasn't an issue in the 60's, and more CO2 is being created now which IS linked to global warming, and yet air travel keeps increasing.

Not only are you premise untrue, but subsequent reality shows your conclusion is untrue too.


edit on 10-3-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: quote tag



posted on Mar, 10 2014 @ 10:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Black soot has been a problem even before Jets, but it was also a problem with Jets that emitted black soot. Jets cause a wider problem because they cover larger regions. NASA reports also told that jet black soot was causing warming of the air.


And you don't know science or how to keep up with NASA studies.


Citations:




Their results also show that 'human influence' on glaciers reaches back to well before industrial temperature increases and the work may help to resolve a longstanding scientific debate over when the "Little Ice Age" actually ended and why the Alps' glaciers retreated decades before global temperatures started increasing again. The Little Ice Age was a cooling period roughly between the 16th and 19th centuries, though scientists do not agree on when it specifically began and ended.

-------

For this study, they analyzed air pollution data from the coal, steel and rail industries in Europe going back to the late 19th century to help determine when and where pollutants were deposited in the glaciers. Black carbon particles are the strongest absorber of sunlight by weight. When these particles settle on snow, they darken the surface and cause it to melt faster, revealing glacier ice earlier in the year.



Source:

Alps Warming




edit on 10-3-2014 by MagnumOpus because: 8



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 02:53 AM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


In a few posts now you have referred to "global warming" as a driving factor in the change of aircraft engines. The term was not used before the late 1980's while the first high bypass engines, of the type that leave contrails, entered service 20 years earlier, so how can this be?

With this point, plus your assertions that chemtrails were left by WW2 bombers as a result of range-enhancing fuels and that contrails are deliberately produced, combined with your inability to decide whether it's the visible contrail or the invisible chemical content of jet exhaust that you are complaining about, as you flip-flop between them, it is becoming increasingly obscure as to what your point is.

"Visible contrails are deliberately produced because jet exhaust contains chemicals" is a facile standpoint.
edit on 11-3-2014 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:26 AM
link   

MagnumOpus
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Black soot has been a problem even before Jets,


Yes - that's why there is a chimney sweep in Mary Poppins....



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 03:30 AM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 




Citations:

You might want to try again.
Your citation doesn't say anything about soot warming air.

edit on 3/11/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 05:14 AM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


One has to wonder why the trails are only visible where it's extremely cold.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 05:39 AM
link   

waynos
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


In a few posts now you have referred to "global warming" as a driving factor in the change of aircraft engines. The term was not used before the late 1980's while the first high bypass engines, of the type that leave contrails, entered service 20 years earlier, so how can this be?

With this point, plus your assertions that chemtrails were left by WW2 bombers as a result of range-enhancing fuels and that contrails are deliberately produced, combined with your inability to decide whether it's the visible contrail or the invisible chemical content of jet exhaust that you are complaining about, as you flip-flop between them, it is becoming increasingly obscure as to what your point is.

"Visible contrails are deliberately produced because jet exhaust contains chemicals" is a facile standpoint.
edit on 11-3-2014 by waynos because: (no reason given)



=======

The difference is that I was talking about some old NASA reports and they were speaking of black soot effects from Jets causing some atmospheric heating more along the line of the term global warming, and jets are global. Having to recount some of their language.

Range enhanced fuels using Boron would be chemtrails, and basically all jets leave chemtrails due to combustion products. NASA saw the black soot type as atmospheric warming related in their report, and the white jet exhaust plumes would go the other way of making clouds and cooling. The issue is you can't keep up with the issues for when a particular term applies.

It is facile for you, because you don't keep up for when a NASA report is being spoken, and how the multiple reference perspectives change.
edit on 11-3-2014 by MagnumOpus because: 66



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 05:40 AM
link   

mrthumpy
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


One has to wonder why the trails are only visible where it's extremely cold.


The worst times for chemtrails around this area was a Summer and it was hot. And warmer, at altitude, also.



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 05:51 AM
link   

MagnumOpus

mrthumpy
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


One has to wonder why the trails are only visible where it's extremely cold.


The worst times for chemtrails around this area was a Summer and it was hot. And warmer, at altitude, also.

what was the temperature at altitude in the winter as opposed to the summer? And how do you know?



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 05:59 AM
link   

MagnumOpus

mrthumpy
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


One has to wonder why the trails are only visible where it's extremely cold.


The worst times for chemtrails around this area was a Summer and it was hot. And warmer, at altitude, also.


It all started out sounding so well thought through and technical but the ignorance is coming thick and fast now



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:20 AM
link   
Points to consider so far:


1. Boron is easily contained in Jet Fuels because it is a common additive. Now Jets have chemtrials linked to Boron.

2. Jet engines have always produced chemical laden trials due to combustion products, and contrail is a misnomer.

3. Early jet engines left behind a black soot that NASA termed atmospheric warming was an issue of environmental damage.

4. Newer generation jet engine designs added high by-pass compressors to their designs, and white chemical laden plumes.

5. Chemical Catalytic effects involve heat, pressure, and changes of state of jet chemical exhaust materials.

6. Aircraft companies have long played a PR media game to attempt to hide that all Jets release chemtrails with acid making products.

7. Metallic additives to fuels have long been around. Lead and Boron being highly evident.

8. Planes fueled with ethyl lead didn't make lingering white trails in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Neither did cars.

9. NASA has been looking at the chemical laden jet plumes with respect to global warming and cooling effects.

10. Chemtrails, some black and some white, have always been the exhaust of jet engines, and only in recent history has the aircraft industry taken over the skies for their own purpose and destroyed the look of nature's cloud making to make graffiti skies.

11. The aviation industry is scamming the Public with the use of the term Condensate Trail, as jet plumes have never been just water.

12. Jet exhaust chemicals do change the climate and environmental factors via various mechanisms. The public is not being informed.




edit on 11-3-2014 by MagnumOpus because: 666



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:23 AM
link   

mrthumpy

MagnumOpus

mrthumpy
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


One has to wonder why the trails are only visible where it's extremely cold.


The worst times for chemtrails around this area was a Summer and it was hot. And warmer, at altitude, also.


It all started out sounding so well thought through and technical but the ignorance is coming thick and fast now



Sounds like you don't think the air temperature changes with the seasons, length of days, albedio, humidity, the jet stream's movement, and so on.

Did you mention thinking, or only allude to it?

Summer humidity makes a difference and atmospheric turbulence drives humid air all around.

I know, that is technical, and such leaves you behind.



edit on 11-3-2014 by MagnumOpus because: ==



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:31 AM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 





1. Boron is easily contained in Jet Fuels because it is a common additive. Now Jets have chemtrials linked to Boron.


How much boron? 16 oz of Biobor JF treats 1280 gallons of fuel. That would only be .0097% of the fuel if it were 100% boron.

You think that's enough to cover the sky?



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:35 AM
link   

DenyObfuscation
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 





1. Boron is easily contained in Jet Fuels because it is a common additive. Now Jets have chemtrials linked to Boron.


How much boron? 16 oz of Biobor JF treats 1280 gallons of fuel. That would only be .0097% of the fuel if it were 100% boron.

You think that's enough to cover the sky?



I know that you forgot to read that the Boron competition said the fuel had to be checked to continually make sure that not too much Boron entered the tanks, so there is zero assurance your details are even close.

And that was why I included that other companies citation, which you like to ignore.


Lead was added to gasoline and that was enough to poison kids all around the world.




edit on 11-3-2014 by MagnumOpus because: 32



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:37 AM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


The latest soundings from Cancun show a temperature of 29.4C at 30ft and -40.5C at 36000ft

I know, that is technical, and such leaves you behind.
edit on 11-3-2014 by mrthumpy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:39 AM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


I didn't forget to read #.

How much boron do you claim is in the mix?



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:43 AM
link   

mrthumpy
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


The latest soundings from Cancun show a temperature of 29.4C at 30ft and -40.5C at 36000ft

I know, that is technical, and such leaves you behind.
edit on 11-3-2014 by mrthumpy because: (no reason given)



I guess you never flew through a cloud at 36,000 ft. ? Or noticed lots more atmospheric turbulence in summer vs winter to modify cloud's altitudes, storm energy, etc.

Do you attempt to tell that it is cold at 36,000 and there is no water around?

Or just that Jet heat of compression effects/combustion on the air doesn't set up vapor to aerosol conversions into chemical clouds in the jet's exhaust.


Obviously, there is vapor to aerosol conversion by the jet engine heating effects (compression and combustion) on cold air. Obviously, such is greater an effect for making heavier jet induced chemical white clouds in the summers.

Obviously, the term humidity is often an issue for cold climates, as at the Poles the Humidity is near zero, but there is more snow there than anywhere. The water exists as either ice molecular clusters or as single molecules, where the term humidity still may apply loosely.


The issue is that water is in the atmosphere at altitude, and when a Jet Engine applies heat, combustion emissions, and acts upon that cold air it makes a white chemical fog that lingers and spreads. Earlier jet exhausts didn't have the linger and spreading issues that turn the skies into a white overcast with lots of lines.


edit on 11-3-2014 by MagnumOpus because: 0



posted on Mar, 11 2014 @ 06:46 AM
link   

MagnumOpus

mrthumpy
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 


One has to wonder why the trails are only visible where it's extremely cold.


The worst times for chemtrails around this area was a Summer and it was hot. And warmer, at altitude, also.

what was the temperature at altitude in the winter as opposed to the summer? And how do you know?
edit on 11-3-2014 by network dude because: chemtrails are fantasy




top topics



 
5
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join