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'There Was No Quorum': Crimean Lawmaker Calls Vote To Join Russia Flawed

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posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 03:14 AM
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'There Was No Quorum': Crimean Lawmaker Calls Vote To Join Russia Flawed


Lawmakers in the parliament in Crimea voted on March 6 for that Ukrainian peninsula to join Russia and hold a referendum on endorsing the decision. Several lawmakers opposing the move, however, say they were either not notified or physically barred from entering the parliament building to cast their vote. RFE/RL Russian Service correspondent Dmitry Volchek spoke to one of them: Leonid Pilunsky, of the faction Qurultay-Rukh.

RFE/RL: Did you take part in today's vote?

Pilunsky: Of course not. They didn't let me in. Even yesterday I couldn't get close, the building is entirely cordoned off by people acting aggressively. There are many faces there that I've never seen. They are rumored to be Kuban Cossacks....

According to our information, there was no quorum. All these decisions resemble a schizophrenic outburst....

Crimean Tatars will categorically refuse to be part of Russia. They have just started returning home and settling down after more than 50 years in exile.

RFE/RL: You said there would inevitably be resistance to Russian rule in Crimea. What would this resistance look like?

Pilunsky: It will depend on what kind of draconian measures they decide to slap on the population.

RFE/RL: Ukrainian military bases are already refusing to lay down their weapons.

Pilunsky: Of course they are refusing. [Russian forces] are behaving like Nazi troops, asking people to surrender. That's exactly what's happening here. Suddenly, people in an independent state are asked to hand over their weapons. All this brings many sad, unhappy thoughts. You start wondering what kind of place you live in and whether this really is the 21st century.


Setting aside the fact Crimea can't legally do what its doing, apparently they are now ignoring their own laws.

No quorum when the vote occurred = measure fails - not passes.
Preventing anti-Russian MP's from entering to vote.
Not notifying anti-Russian MP's of the vote.

Two choices in Crimean referendum: yes and yes
Crimea Ballot Russia -
Austria Ballot Nazi Germany-

yeah.. no overlap there.


INVASION OF CRIMEA – March 7, 2014 – SUMMARY

You have protesters who don't want to be a part of Russia being assaulted by armed "Cossack" thugs / Russian soldiers / "Militia" in the Crimea region.

You have media being assaulted now with their equipment being confiscated illegally - Pro-Russian separatists attacked a journalist in Mykolaiv - Russian
Crimea: paramilitaries shown with gun to journalist's head - Shocking CCTV footage shows paramilitaries and Russian Cossacks attacking journalists after taking cameras and equipment from another news team.
У Севастополі жорстоко побили журналістів / In Sevastopol, brutally beat up journalists Friday, March 07, 2004, 22: 59

You have UN monitors being refuses entrance into the region.

You have thug "Cossacks" attacking people who are not Pro Russian in addition to attempting to storm a Ukrainian military base in Crimea. The same thug "Cossacks" who took it upon their self to publicly whip members of Pussy Riot - Political, military standoff escalates in Ukraine's Crimea region

Apparently the "Cossacks" / Russian version of "freedom" is where people are forced to submit to the Cossack / Russian viewpoint.

You have Ukrainian media forced off the air, replaced with Russian media only.

Russian naval vessels blockading Ukrainian ports.

Russian naval vessels holding Ukrainian naval vessels hostage.

Russian naval forces sinking 2 vessels now to block entrance / exit to the port.

Tarter's are not going along with Russia's effort to occupy / annex Crimea - Ukraine crisis: Crimea's Tatars fear Russian rule

Russian Special forces seizing border check points.

Russian invasion / occupation forces without insignia's.

RT News - 'Visa bans, asset freezes are next': Europe announces three step sanctions against Russia

You have Russia violating the agreement they have with Ukraine over military deployment.

Under the Russian-Ukrainian Partition Treaty determining the fate of the military bases and vessels in Crimea – signed in 1997 and prolonged in 2010 - Russia is allowed to have up to 25,000 troops, 24 artillery systems (with a caliber smaller than 100 mm), 132 armored vehicles, and 22 military planes, on the peninsula’s territory. The Russian Black Sea fleet is allowed to stay in Crimea until 2042. Moscow annually writes off $97.75 million of Kiev’s debt for the right to use Ukrainian waters and radio frequencies, and to compensate for the Black Sea Fleet’s environmental impact.


Presidential Address to the Federal Assembly

Putin responds to EU / US Visa ban - Not Happy
Putin's goal for Russian Visa -

Finally, we need to toughen control over foreign citizens’ purposes for entering the country; all civilized countries do that. The country has to know what a foreigner comes to Russia for and how long he plans to stay here for. Apart from that, we have to address the problem with those foreigners who have entered the country visa-free and are staying here for a long time without certain purpose. They claim to have no certain purposes but apparently they do have some – it is just that the government remains unaware.


Putin on Russia's foreign policy - (Apparently it doesn't apply to Georgia or Ukraine)

We have always been proud of our country. But we don’t have superpower aspirations; we don’t want global or regional domination, we don’t interfere with anyone’s interests, trying to play a patron, we are not going to lecture others.

But we will strive to be leaders by defending international law, making sure that national sovereignty, independence and identity are respected. This is a natural approach for a country like Russia with its great history and culture, its vast experience in the area of different ethnicities living in harmony, side by side, in one state.


The speech he made is a good read since it lays out a roadmap of his intentions, from Ukraine to other former soviet Republics. An interesting comment in his speech deals with the military, specifically the army. He stated they have 220k private and sergeant contracts. A sneaky way of being able to state they aren't Russian soldiers.

Guess what, the hessians weren't British but fought under their command, just as is occurring in Crimea with Russian / pro Russian forces.

The only thing left for Putin / Russia to do is place the sign "Arbeit macht frei" and the border crossings.

When will people wake up?
edit on 8-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 03:35 AM
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Doesn't matter what the West thinks of Putin, (having decided to hate Putin since Snowden went there), Putin is far more popular in Russia than either Cameron/Osborne or Obama are in their own country's and I bet personal jealousy forms a part of those guy's mentality because Putin has lasted considerably longer than any of them will. Also the Russian Foreign Minister has the unfortunate ability of making sense when he speaks (unlike our William Haig when he opens his mouth)

The Crimea obviously wants to be a separate country like the Ukraine separated from Mother Russia. So in fact, what is actually wrong with that? The only thing I can see is that it appears that huge chunks of countries under a similar brand of control with a central 'government' making the laws is easier to manipulate than a lot of smaller countries where each government has to be persuaded. It might be worth a referendum as to how many people want their couontry to be separate from some huge conglomerate that they feel they have nothing in common with anymore. UKIP has made huge roads in the UK although the mud is beginning to be slung against them. Their crime, they want us out of Europe. I would like to have the ability to trade easily with European countries but their philosophy may not match the English one. Scotland also wants independence and I wish them all the luck in the world, provided they take queenie and her gaggle with them. People use to trade perfectly well before these huge federal states started to be the 'new thing'. I have also read here that some States want to leave Washington's paws so the feeling, whether it be for the few or more seems to be in the air.



posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 04:03 AM
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Shiloh7
The Crimea obviously wants to be a separate country like the Ukraine separated from Mother Russia. So in fact, what is actually wrong with that?


If that is true then why is the other 50% of the population being forced to accept that position? If the argument is based on the people have a right to self determination, then that means ALL residence in the affected area, and not just the section who wants to leave.

The other issue is the population break down in Crimea - Something people have brought up howeverI don't think the true breakdown is understood.

New vitriol from Russia as standoff in Ukraine's Crimea region continues


Russian speakers make up about 60% of Crimea's population of more than 2 million, but around a quarter are Ukrainian and 12% are Crimean Tatar, a predominately Muslim minority. Neither of the latter two groups would welcome a switch to Russian control.


When you have a split population 50/50 on self determination, to assume they want to join Russia and should be allowed to do so undermines the very same principles for the other 50%.

Crimea is a part of Ukraine. That's been established time and again, First by Khrushchev who gave the Crimea to the Ukraine and then in an agreement signed by Russia and Ukraine in 1997, where Russia gave it its claims to Crimea.

The Ukrainian Constitution / agreement with Crimea as an autonomous (not independent there is a difference) area only allows the Ukrainian Federal government to put this to the voters and not the Crimean parliament. Only Ukraine can ask for foreign assistance, not the Crimean parliament.

If Crimea is so pro Russian then why have all independent media outlets been shutdown? Why are foreign media being attacked by thug Cossacks / Russian troops? Why are UN and OCSE observers being denied entry to observe the situation on the ground? Why is Russia scuttling vessels, up to 3 now, to blockade the port where the Ukrainian Navy is located who don't recognize the Crimean orders? Why does Russia have upwards of 30k troops (they are only allowed 20-25k) in Crimea? Why are anti Russian Crimean's being attacked and beat by pro Russian Crimean's?

If it was such an overwhelming number of people wanting to join Russia, then there would be absolutely not need for the invasion and follow up actions we are seeing.

It makes one wonder what Putin is hiding, and what his next former republic invasion will be. My money is on Kazakhstan, since they are the closest to Russia than any former republic. Mainly I think they will be targeted because they don't support Putin's actions. neither does Moldova for that matter, who announced at the last UN security council meeting that several of their provinces who also have ethnic Russians are seeing separatists movements there, with meetings between the Russian government and those players in Moldova?

This is the UN link - Vl adimir Lupan (Moldova) on Ukraine - Security Council Media Stakeout (3 March 2014) 3 Mar 2014 - Informal comments to the media by H.E. Mr. Vladimir Lupan, Permanent Representative of the Republic of Moldova to the United Nations, on the situation in Ukraine.



edit on 8-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 05:39 AM
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This article is bad journalism in its finest.
Sensetionalist title with no substance, plus reference to Nazis all over again.

So we have one member of the Crimean parliament saying he didn't vote and there was no quorum.
Where's the rest of the info?

1. How many lawmakers were present in the time of voting?
2. Are they all the members of the parliament and have the right to vote?
3. How many seats are in parliament?
4. What is the minimum number for quorum?
5. What is the system for voting?
6. Yay - Nay in numbers?

And I'm sure I left out more relevant questions but can't remember atm.
After these questions are answered, we can draw our conclusions, oterwise like I said it's blatant propaganda with stupid article title!



posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


So I don't get it, why do you find it so bothersome that majority of Crimeans will vote to join Russian Federation.

Did it ever occur to you that these people are interested in good salaries, job security, oil and gas on tap.

For Christ's sake man, this isn't just politics, this is feeding yourself and your family.

Who could blame them for not wanting to go down with the Bankrupt Ship that Kiev is.



posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 10:03 PM
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AntiPrivateWestBankers
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


So I don't get it, why do you find it so bothersome that majority of Crimeans will vote to join Russian Federation.

Did it ever occur to you that these people are interested in good salaries, job security, oil and gas on tap.

For Christ's sake man, this isn't just politics, this is feeding yourself and your family.

Who could blame them for not wanting to go down with the Bankrupt Ship that Kiev is.


Because using the phrase majority is not the same as the results of an actual vote.

The referendum is illegal. I have stated in other threads I have no issues with Crimea wanting to pick its fate. I just take exception to the manner in which they are doing it / Russia's interference in it.

What do you think will happen if the vote turns out to be no? Do the Russians leave? Will the "militias" disband? Will the Crimean government accept that outcome? Is it possible that is one of the reasons Russia invaded? That way if the result is no what they want, they can force it.

Also you seem to be ignoring those who are not Russians who don't want to go to Russia via annexation. Im guessing because they are not Russian that its not relevant what they want? If this action was on the up and up Russia would not have invaded Ukraine.

I find interesting that you and others, and Russia, are ok with the actions of the Crimean government with regards to what they think of the Ukrainian federal government.

Putin and others have invoked the Ukrainian constitution to support some of their claims. Yet when it comes to Crimea, the Ukrainian constitution is irrelevant? The Ukrainian constitution spells out what Crimea is and what they can and cannot do under the autonomous framework.

Specifically only the Ukrainian federal government can deal with issues of territorial integrity. It prohibits exactly what occurred in the Crimea.

The world is not going to accept the outcome of the referendum due to it being illegal (yes a msm argument I support). I support diplomatic efforts to resolve the situation provided its not done with Russia holding a gun to the head of Crimea and Ukraine.

Putin has ethics that would raise eyebrows in the court of Caligula.

History is being repeated.. I hope Reich Chancellor Putin comes to his senses before he leads us into WWIII.
edit on 8-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2014 @ 10:05 PM
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zilebeliveunknown
This article is bad journalism in its finest.
Sensetionalist title with no substance, plus reference to Nazis all over again.

So we have one member of the Crimean parliament saying he didn't vote and there was no quorum.
Where's the rest of the info?

1. How many lawmakers were present in the time of voting?
2. Are they all the members of the parliament and have the right to vote?
3. How many seats are in parliament?
4. What is the minimum number for quorum?
5. What is the system for voting?
6. Yay - Nay in numbers?

And I'm sure I left out more relevant questions but can't remember atm.
After these questions are answered, we can draw our conclusions, oterwise like I said it's blatant propaganda with stupid article title!


Those question didn't seem to manner when dealing with the Ukrainian governments removal of the President.

The person in the article is an actual MP of Crimea. Because he is not in lock step with the the Russian Invasion you dismiss his position.



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:34 AM
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US should not take Americans' money to pick next leader in Ukraine - Ron Paul

"There are two things – whether or not we should be involved, with the intrigue of picking the next leader in a particular country, or whether or not we should take money from Americans and give it to somebody else. I don’t think we should be in the business of picking who should be running which country around the world," Ron Paul, a former US Congressman and a long-time Federal Reserve critic, has said in an exclusive interview to the Voice of Russia, speaking about the Ukrainian crisis. – Dr. Ron Paul.

For radio VR in Washington, I’m Samir Shakhbaz. We’ll be discussing right now the situation in and around Ukraine with a man who doesn’t need long introductions – Dr. Ron Paul.

Dr. Paul, hello and welcome!

Hello! Nice to be with you.

Viktor Yanukovych made his second address to the press since his arrival in Russia. A very interesting point – he wants to appeal to the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court regarding the US plans to lend $1 billion to Kiev. He believes it is illegal and he refers to authorization of assistance article in the US law. Can you comment on that? Can he actually do that?

I don’t know exactly what he wants to do. I mean, he can give an opinion. Congress and the President generally do what they want to do. When you look at things the way I do, in a strict constitutional sense, in moral sense – all these programs are considered illegal and we shouldn’t be doing them. But that’s not the way they look at it. They rationalize and justify it.

So, they do almost what they want and if they can’t do it with the justification of law, they do it like they did on the bailouts during our emergency. They just go ahead and do it and the Federal Reserve provides funds and sums of money. So, I think this is sort of a ritual they go through to justify it by certain legislative sanctions and certain laws. But if they are destined to bailout somebody, they will do it, whether we know about it or not.

If it is bailing out, it sounds bad. But what if we call it a friendly assistance?

From the US to the various countries?

Right!

I don’t believe it, because I think nobody has the right to come and take the money from the American taxpayer. And because they are friends and they want a bailout, they want help and they want assistance or no matter how noble the purpose seems to be, I don’t think the end justifies the means.

So, I don’t think that we should redistribute wealth within our own country and I don’t believe we should redistribute wealth around the world with the use of force. I mean, there’s obviously a lot of debt in Ukraine, as there has been around the world. We were very much involved in the bailing out of Greece and propping up the banking system.

So, Ukraine is bankrupt, they don’t have the funds and the bankers are getting worried about this, and the various people who wrote money. So, if they can get a rescue, for various reasons they will come, because people still accept the dollar. The biggest question is the political question of who get the control of this money, who I going to be in charge. That’s what the arguing is about.

So, there are two things – whether or not we should be involved, with the intrigue of picking the next leader in a particular country, or whether or not we should take money from Americans and give it to somebody else. I would say that that is the real problem that we have to face. And then, again, I don’t think we should be in the business of picking who should be running which country around the world.

Also, Yanukovych said that he still considers himself to be a legitimate President, called the new Government illegitimate. Can you comment on that? Do you believe he is still a President?

Well, my personal viewpoint doesn’t matter that much. I can have an opinion and I tend to think that that is probably the case. But that doesn’t mean that I endorse everything he ever did or the system. But, yes, I think that we have evidence that the EU and our Government had contrived to orchestrate a change in government, and they were able to achieve this.

But the only position I speak strongly to is that we shouldn’t be involved, we shouldn’t participate. If there were only the eastern Ukrainians against the western Ukrainians, that would be a better way of solving problems. But if the Europeans get involved and the Russians get involved, then that’s something else. But certainly, my very determined position is that it would be best for that region, it would be best for America if we just stayed out of the argument.

The US, the EU, Russia – everyone is appealing to the international law and each of these players say that they are abiding to that international law. And so does the Crimea, that little autonomous entity which is holding a referendum this Sunday on its independence or, maybe, even joining Russia. Do you think such actions by Crimean people are legal, in term of law?

Well, I think they are certainly moral. I’d like to argue the case that they are legal, and they have mentioned this, you know, we went into WW I with Woodrow Wilson shouting and screaming that we want to have self-determination for all people. So, it’s been going on for a long time, but a lot of times it is just talks. So, on principle, I want everybody to be able to have self-determination.

And quite frankly, I think the smaller the unit of governance, the better. So often, if you look at the problems in Iraq, which was an artificial country, and probably making three units out of it would have been a solution a long time ago. The same way with Ukraine. Maybe, there isn’t natural division that would occur, but I think international law protects that privilege, that people have their right of self-determination.

For some people to get up and all of a sudden say that the Russians are violating international law, at the same time, we as a country, unfortunately, we have violated international law quite frequently. I mean, we are in more countries than anybody else, we are in 130 countries. We’ve invaded a lot of countries. We use drones around the world. So, I wonder if there any international laws broken when we do that.

What in your opinion that desired compromise between the US and Russia on the Ukrainian issue could be? We understand perfectly well that these are the two major players.

My goal has always been that you try to work things out, you are willing to talk and use diplomacy, never use threat and never use money. I’ve argued the case that, unfortunately, our foreign policy has been driven by threatening people and interfering in their elections and their internal affairs, which we were so strongly advised to avoid. So, I would say that if we did that, then we should have trade. Trade back and forth is very helpful.

Now that we trade with China, we are less likely to fight with China. Now that Russia and the US are much more trading partners, it is less likely that we should go to war. Even in the situation that we are facing now, it is good that there is some economic dependence on each other. Russia sells gas to Europe and Europe claims that they can take care of themselves, if necessary, but who knows. So, I think the more trade, the better.


edit on 12-3-2014 by PhilWhaley71 because: need 2 pages



posted on Mar, 12 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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In talking, I would be boosting up friendly relations, staying out of the internal affairs of nations. When there is a border dispute 6000 miles from our border, I would say – look, that’s your business, you take care of it, but what we would like to do is maintain diplomatic relations, we would like to enhance trade, rather than threaten to punish people by putting on sanctions and stealing their money by freezing assets, I think that is wrong.

Can these sanctions that the US and the EU are threatening to impose on Russia actually backfire at the EU and the US? How big is the trade turnover between the two countries?

Well, that remains to be seen, but it certainly could happen. If it really-really becomes a battle, America is very vulnerable on the dollar, because there’s been illusion of trust in the dollar and in America’s supremacy, because we are the military power of the world and we still are the economic power. But it is all based on the fact that people are still wanting our dollars and they let our Fed to create money forever and ever.

And even now, whether it is the EU needing help to deal with Greece or what is happening in Ukraine, people think – well, if America would just send them more money, it is going to work. But if China and Russia, and India would happen to get together and say that we are sick and tired of it, we are going to show you that we can weaken your dollar rather quickly. Right now, it is not in their interest they are still holding a lot of dollars.

So, it remains to be seen how this pans out. But if the West gets too aggressive, I believe that they can become more vulnerable. Sometimes these things happen, there are not intended consequences. Sometimes they are accidental and sometimes there are mistakes made in the field. And sometimes people get blamed for things that they didn’t do and, then the thing escalates before you know that it is much worse than anybody ever dreamed of.

How would you evaluate the way the English language media covers the situation in Ukraine? Are they being helpful at all? Are they provoking the situation? You comments would be interesting.

I think they are totally biased. It is an example of what happens… you know, our media is supposed to be privately owned and theoretically it is, but why is it so uniform. We are supposed to have Republican stations and Democrat stations, or pretend. And yet, when it comes to getting an op on a country, they are very uniform. When it came to being uniform on going into war against Iraq, which I considered totally unconstitutional, illegal and immoral, and based on lies, all the media supported it. In the same way right now, everybody is supporting western Ukraine and I think it is very-very biased.

Dr. Paul, thank you very much for your time and comments. It is always a pleasure talking to you.


Link: voiceofrussia.com article


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