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Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

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posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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charlyv

demus

charlyv
reply to post by demus
 


Holy crap, what is important here really eludes you.


what is important about the missing plane?

and I mean IMPORTANT.

please enlighten me, I'm willing to come to the light.


Well, 239 people are missing. Could have been you, me, our families.... If finding out what happened to them is not important to you, well perhaps you should reevaluate your priorities.

If you think you know their fate, perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us as to where you got your information.


I am really sorry for the missing people.
but I will not be used by higher powers playing on card of empathy to distract (with overwhelming success) people's attention from more important things going on in the world.

people go missing every day, people die every day; I don't want to give examples, I'm sure you're all getting enough bad news every day.

the sad fact is that you are doing what the media told you to do: to worry about the missing plane and maybe even help to find it.
the sad fact is that if the media didn't instruct you (not only you) to do this, "the missing plane" would be long forgotten.

I linked to thread about Crimea because that is (in my opinion) the most important for people to know about at the moment.

you all complain about the government doing this, government doing that, conspiracies, lies, deceptions, poisons in our foods and so on but you readily took the bait from the media.

and than you all wonder: "why is the world the way it is, why is the government scr*** us, why the kids are stupid...?"

you are the question, you are the answer. (when I use you, I don't mean only and personally you and when I say all of you, I don't mean exactly 100%)




posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:41 PM
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sy.gunson
You made a comment dismissing the Chinese discovery saying it could be something else so I am asking you what else could it reasonably be and now you're saying you don't know?



charlyv
Not only that, but on a 1Hz duty cycle. That repetition rate is supposed to be emergency only using the 37.5 kHz frequency.
About that, yes, maybe 1.1 Hz, and I've seen no reports of the duty cycle of the pings found, in the media reports.

The "black box" recorders ping the 37.5 kHz frequency for about 10ms every 0.9s, which is not only a specific audio frequency, but a specific timing pattern to the repeating pings. I read something about the pings in this search happening for 90 seconds, but the article didn't say how many pings happened in those 90 seconds, which would be important to know.

If it was about 90/0.9 then I'd say chances are pretty good it was a "black box" recorder, but if it wasn't close to that it could be something else, but it certainly wouldn't be natural, because there is no known natural sound pattern like that. If someone in a country's military wanted to ping at the same frequency as the black box recorder, all they'd have to do to avoid having their pings confused with a "black box" is use a vastly different pinging interval, like once every 3 seconds or every 10 seconds, instead of once every 0.9 seconds.
edit on 6-4-2014 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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Humans have been killing each other over who gets to live on the block or field or mountain forever. It will not be ending anytime soon. Seems to always be in the news. Maybe that is what they want you to see. Learn to live with war not peace.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Where did I dismiss it? I said they hadn't confirmed either ping as being the recorders.

I don't know every single thing that pings at 37.5, so I can't say what else it could be, but the recorders aren't the only thing that ping at that frequency. A lot of the ships aren't going to pick up any pingers because of the depth, so no it wouldn't be obvious if it was something military.

Even the search teams have said they haven't confirmed it's the recorders.
edit on 4/6/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 



I agree alot of what is said here - But, I dont think what was seen in the shape of a fire/flames from the aircraft, could have been so graphic as surely for it to have been a fire on the outside of the plane, it would have indicated either a fusalage breakthrough due to heat/flames? and surely this would have had to be of a reasonable size to be seen from some distance 20/30/40 + miles away, or otherwise it would have to have been an internal fire, the question is(and excuse me if its been already answered)? was the plane witnessed with the fire flying normaly engine sound normal? or was it reported as diving with that unique sound from a diving plane, due to the fire.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by auroraaus
 


I consulted with Mr. BurningSpearess, who is a Chemical Engineer, & in his best layperson's terms (I'm only an imaginary engineer by his standards, lol) he tried to break it down for me how the mangosteens could be a culprit for an explosion...

He based it on the initial composition of the fruit as cargo + amount + processes occurring due to pressurization...

Lax cargo rules, especially, could play a role as it seems to be in 370...

He described as something similar to putting hay in a cargo, & how could that not possibly create a fire hazard as well?


BTW... he is so sick of hearing about this carp it's like, calm down & get on with it...but then again, he's always despised ATS...




edit on 6-4-2014 by BurningSpearess because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by BurningSpearess
 

I guess the hay thing is like oily rags generate heat as the oil breaks down the cotton fibres,put enough oily rags pressed together in a bin and they can make enough heat to spontaneously combust.Will decomposing hay do the same thing?



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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UKGuy1805
reply to post by sy.gunson
 



I agree alot of what is said here - But, I dont think what was seen in the shape of a fire/flames from the aircraft, could have been so graphic as surely for it to have been a fire on the outside of the plane, it would have indicated either a fusalage breakthrough due to heat/flames?


Precisely, which would explosively depressurise the aircraft and incapacitate the crew within seconds.


....and surely this would have had to be of a reasonable size to be seen from some distance 20/30/40 + miles away, or otherwise it would have to have been an internal fire, the question is(and excuse me if its been already answered)?


A fire would have to start inside a pressurised cabin, but once the cabin depressurised the flame would quickly self extinguish.



was the plane witnessed with the fire flying normaly engine sound normal? or was it reported as diving with that unique sound from a diving plane, due to the fire.


Oil rig worker Mike McKay said that the aircraft did not appear to deviate left or right and continued to fly in one piece.



This is a cockpit fire to an ABX Air Boeing 767-200 in 2008 started by an electronics bay fire under the cockpit located behind the nosewheel bay. It ignited the pilot oxygen supply which fed the fire:





This is the Egyptair Boeing 777-200 Flight 667 in Saudi Arabia in 2011. In that instance the co-pilot oxygen hose had a conductive anti-kink spring which shorted and melted the hose creating a blow torch effect inside the cockpit.



This is how the oxygen tanks are mounted inside the B777 avionics bay.



An oxygen fed electrical fire would flare either until the oxygen was exhausted or until the Stoichometric conditions no longer sustained combustion. Outside air temperature at 35,000ft would be around -50 degrees.
edit on 6-4-2014 by sy.gunson because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-4-2014 by sy.gunson because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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OatDelphi
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


I'm not for certain but it would seem she is being sarcastic about the Mangosteens...



A little from column a, a little from column b.

Exploding fruit in asia isn't new.

China farmers face exploding watermelon problem

Due to a combination of a new growth accelerator and a wetter season than normal...in that case.

What I am interested in, is the C02 effusion rate from rotting mangosteens, and the potential, if they are packed in reaaally tight in say, metal canisters, maybe with a few ball bearings for good measure and see what would happen if the outside atmosphere was depressurized suddenly...

This is no more a crazy idea then some of the others being thrown about!



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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BurningSpearess
reply to post by auroraaus
 


I consulted with Mr. BurningSpearess, who is a Chemical Engineer, & in his best layperson's terms (I'm only an imaginary engineer by his standards, lol) he tried to break it down for me how the mangosteens could be a culprit for an explosion...

He based it on the initial composition of the fruit as cargo + amount + processes occurring due to pressurization...

Lax cargo rules, especially, could play a role as it seems to be in 370...

He described as something similar to putting hay in a cargo, & how could that not possibly create a fire hazard as well?


BTW... he is so sick of hearing about this carp it's like, calm down & get on with it...but then again, he's always despised ATS...



Apologies to Mr BurningSpearess but this is a Burning Obsession :?)

With the greatest respect to my mate Auroraauus but the issue is not whether Mangosteens can explode but how that alone explains all the other issues, like lack of a distress call, or why pilots could not make a rapid descent?

Otherwise I think she made an interesting observation.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by Imagewerx
 


There's quite a few haystack fires I have seen in my time.

The mould/mildrew/fungi at the bottom generate a lot of heat, and in time, has potential to go *whooosh* , on fire.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by BurningSpearess
 


So... according to Mr BurningSpearess, is he saying that it is *possible*? Look up at my above post, and tell him about it.




posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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charlyv



Don't you think it would be blindingly obvious in the middle of the greatest air-sea search in history with 13 ships and 18 aircraft, if someone else had military equipment pinging away at 37.5 kHz in exactly the same location?
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Not only that, but on a 1Hz duty cycle. That repetition rate is supposed to be emergency only using the 37.5 kHz frequency. The reason the audio frequency is so high, is that it will not traverse sound channels very well, and will be attenuated. Lower frequencies, while giving greater detection ranges, can get trapped in the sound channels produced by steep thermoclines and lead to ambiguous ranges and bearings.


...and because of the low lateral detection distance, a ship has to be almost overhead which makes determining the direction harder.

I am puzzled that the Ocean Shield reports detecting a signal 200km away and wonder if that means each black box sank in a different place or if the ping would be trapped between thermoclines and propagate sideways?



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


Or they are detecting something other than the recorders. I seriously doubt the sound is CAPABLE of propogating that far, or the two recorders landed that far apart. The only thing that makes sense is something else besides the recorder.
edit on 4/6/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


...and because of the low lateral detection distance, a ship has to be almost overhead which makes determining the direction harder.

I am puzzled that the Ocean Shield reports detecting a signal 200km away and wonder if that means each black box sank in a different place or if the ping would be trapped between thermoclines and propagate sideways?

Agreed 100%.

No WAY a low power signal can travel 200km...

Even an extremely high power sonar signal (200dB+) has a hard time going long distances except under very rare convergence zone conditions.

Former Navy sonar tech BTW...



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:48 PM
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auroraaus

OatDelphi
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


I'm not for certain but it would seem she is being sarcastic about the Mangosteens...



A little from column a, a little from column b.

Exploding fruit in asia isn't new.

China farmers face exploding watermelon problem

Due to a combination of a new growth accelerator and a wetter season than normal...in that case.

What I am interested in, is the C02 effusion rate from rotting mangosteens, and the potential, if they are packed in reaaally tight in say, metal canisters, maybe with a few ball bearings for good measure and see what would happen if the outside atmosphere was depressurized suddenly...

This is no more a crazy idea then some of the others being thrown about!




You're quite right that it is no more crazy than many ideas batted around here.

It did not Dawn on me what you were saying about the Mangosteens and I thought you were just being whimsical sorry Aurora.

I don't think its implausible as the cause of an explosion and that might conceivably have enough force to rupture the fuselage, however if that happened the ambient conditions at 35,000ft would not sustain a fire. If Mangosteens exploded in some way causing a fire without first rupturing the fuselage, then the cargo compartment is actually designed to suppress a fire and you would expect pilots to have time to react by diving to lower level at the very least.

If there were a fire which couldn't be suppressed it is hard to imagine Pilots couldn't have descended and made a distress call.

Fire on it's own is not enough to explain the events.

Decompression on its own is not enough either.

Infact you almost need a triple emergency to replicate the peculiar lack of response by pilots.

That's an honest considered opinion.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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Murgatroid
reply to post by sy.gunson
 


...and because of the low lateral detection distance, a ship has to be almost overhead which makes determining the direction harder.

I am puzzled that the Ocean Shield reports detecting a signal 200km away and wonder if that means each black box sank in a different place or if the ping would be trapped between thermoclines and propagate sideways?

Agreed 100%.

No WAY a low power signal can travel 200km...

Even an extremely high power sonar signal (200dB+) has a hard time going long distances except under very rare convergence zone conditions.

Former Navy sonar tech BTW...


Thanks i appreciate that answer.

So perhaps after striking the sea the aircraft broke up quite badly and maybe one flight recorder say attached to a large piece of debris with neutral boyancy glided a long way from the other recorder?

I note that the tailplanes are made of very light carbonfibre and may not have sunk stright down.

My dad was torpedoed by U-653 during WWII and he told me that ships sometimes hang and glide some distance before reaching the bottom. This aircraft was made of lighweight Aluminium and carbonfibre.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


If it was shot down would it be possible, from a high altitude, for the Plane to break up on descent and scatter over such a large area of the Ocean?
I know it's not a theory you are entertaining particularly, but I ask genuinely as you've had some of the best insight to share in these 300+ pages!!!

Peace Zaphod!!!



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


And that makes more sense than them detecting something besides the recorder?



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by CharlieSpeirs
 


It's not like Hollywood likes to show. When a plane is hit by a missile they tend to remain intact, unless it hits something like a loaded weapons bay, or is a Golden BB shot.

But to cover an area that big they would have had to be a lot higher.



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