Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

Like I said earlier! Too conveniently hides the truth!


Tracking down MH370 black boxes a Herculean challenge
Delphine TOUITOU
Agence France-Presse
PARIS

PARIS: -- Recovering the black boxes from the Malaysia Airlines jet that crashed into the southern Indian Ocean is a Herculean task, even with the wealth of sophisticated equipment being deployed.

Sorry no link.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Learn the difference between reading something and MISREADING, and debating and ATTACKING illogically.

Every time you attack and use straw man arguments it is against T&C, ATS doesn't need idiots that don't know how to behave.

reply to post by sy.gunson

The suicide theory holds no weight on pilot forum discussions on other websites. Pilots look for plausible technical explanations. Non-pilots look for conspiracy theories.

I would imagine pilots would say that. But I think it is one of the long shots of theories.

It wasn't all that long ago a Jet Blue (IIRC) pilot went crazy, was subdued, and the plane had to land.

If it was I think it might have been triggered by the unknown caller just before take off.

reply to post by lestweforget


I agree and why is no one looking toward the Arabian Sea with Yemen and Somalia sitting right there on the coast? The up and down altitude, turning off communications and the turn in that direction, all suggest something...

Can some ATSers concur (not just one of you!), what the alt readings were for the first three known turns?

And was autopilot on or not? Again, general concurrence please?


I ask, because there's a reason why I failed year 12 (senior) chem/physics.
(mainly because the gym behind the classroom was playing loud 80s... I couldn't help but dance in my chair. Yeah, I was one of *those* students)

qmantoo
IF the unidentified cargo was something 'interesting' (like gold, nuke weapon, biological, etc) then would it make a difference to the outcome? Would it change your theories? If so then we need that cargo manifest to be sure.

As I said previously, if it was gold, it would explain why so many resources have been thrown at this thing. If it was, then we will find out how many countries try to get it back.

If it was bilogical/bomb then if the pilot had got wind of it, then he may have decided that he needs to dump it where it cannot do any harm - at the bottom of the sea far away from land.

Of course, we will never know unless the flight landed in the north somewhere.

There is no reason that anyone would ship the items you listed as "interesting cargo" above on a passenger airliner.

Malaysia is a pretty closed govt/society and is not used to sharing information of any kind. There is no free press there, so I am sure that one of the issues with the govt being forthcoming with any information is the culture of "secrecy" that has existed in that country for decades. I am sure that all the media attention and requests for information has the leaders totally bumfuzzled and perhaps paranoid.

Most often the simplest answer is the correct one. I too subscribe to the ghost ship autopilot scenario.

Contrary to popular belief here at ATS not every big news item is a conspiracy. I will not rule out some form of foul play by any of the players involved, however I do feel that without evidence, conjuring up weird conspiracy theories is just a reach that further fogs the lack of or contrary information floating around out there.

Contradicting information, unanswered questions etc do not in any form constituted proof. They are merely what they are until something solid comes along to verify foul play on the part of some govt or entity.

Asking the question of why has the US not released radar records from Diego Garcia sounds ominous and implies they are hiding something. That is, until you realize that radar does not extend thousands of miles. The visual horizon on the ocean is merely 30 miles away, so consider that when you are wondering why Diego Garcia's ground radar didnt pick up a plane flying 2000 miles away. I do not know what the range is for the radar at Diego Garcia, but I can state categorically that it does not extend even 1000 miles.

lonewolf2
reply to post by WanDash

 

INMARSAT TRACKING TWO PLANES ?? DID I HEAR RIGHT?

Was listening to this How British satellite company Inmarsat tracked down MH370 at 2:36 he states that "it is the southern route is the best fit for the two planes" was this an error in speech or was there another plane involved. Was Inmarsat tracking two planes along side each other in the Indian Ocean??

Thank you for that video link of the Immarsat guy, Chris Mclaughlin. There were a few spots in the video that set off alarm bells for me in his explanation. At :53 he says that Immarsat has been in business for 34 years and founded on some U.N. Charter. At 1:06 he pats himself on the back for Immarsat and its achievements. What really bothers me though is at 1:44 when he said new technology that Immarsat has installed in approximately 10,000 aircraft, must be mandated for all aircraft because of this incident! At 1:53 he makes references to "...our systems, blah, blah, blah..." This whole event is a demonstration to force a change to new technology that can be forced by U.N. mandate on airlines by way of the U.N! Immarsat will profit immensely and that other Canadian firm, FLYHT, that
makes live streaming flight data. A new technology to replace the black boxes! Therefore I can tell that the black boxes for MH370 will not be found! flyht.com... Follow the money trail for the motive...

Plan2exist18
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

All the information you explain makes sense, thank you. What I do not understand is the storage date for these planes in the records is 21-10-2013 (on both documents)? Judging from the docs, the place was re-tagged and moved on 21-10-2013 and there is no exit date... So if that was true, how could this plane take off in March 2014 from Kuala Lampur?

The are 3 aircraft in question with these flight records. 9M-MRI is the one that became N105GT when it was sold to GA Telesis. That aircraft is the one that was moved on 10/21/2013. MH370 is 9M-MRO which is the one that disappeared on the 03/08/2014 flight.

9M-MRI serial # 28416 is now owned by GA Telesis registered as N105GT and last seen in Tel Aviv on 04/11/2013. It looks like it was stored in France before going to Israel while still registered as 9M-MRI. Also from looking at the below image, there is another company that is connected with this aircraft. ALAFCO a Kuwait based leasing company. There is a 08/04/2013 date in the record. Here is a link for ALAFCO. www.alafco-kw.com...

ALAFCO's customers include Royal Jordanian, Malaysia Airlines, Air Europa, Turkish Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, Yemenia, Air India, China Southern Airlines, Sky Airlines, Saudi Arabian Airlines, VietJet Air and GoAir. Future planned leases include six 787s for Oman Air.

en.wikipedia.org...




9M-MRK serial # 28418 is no longer in the Malaysian Air fleet. GA Telesis is disassembling it at Fort Lauderdale, FL in the U.S.
www.gatelesis.com...

9M-MRO serial # 28420 is the missing flight MH370 aircraft which took off from Kuala Lumpur on 03/08/2013.

auroraaus
lestweforget: Lack of disclosure re: cargo concerns me. I would think international security/relations would take precedent to a police investigation. But that's just me. The two SEAL officers on the seychelles, I am yet to see a credible source for it.

RP2: I am with you, but could you refrain from saying Paky? It's offensive. Pakistani would suffice.

robsmith: (I love the cure). From my understanding Malaysian Airways were struggling due to increased costs, cheaper competition and global slowdown in airtravel from the GFC but were still at least making a profit.

Here is a source for the fact that the 2 ex-Navy Seals were employees of the Trident Group. They were found dead on the Maersk Alabama. Notice the trident logo that there is another thread here on ATS about?
www.gotridentgroup.com...

Seychelles police have identified the deceased as Jeffrey Reynolds and Mark Kennedy. The men, both 44, worked for Trident Group, a Virginia-based maritime security services firm. The men were former Navy SEALs. A statement from a Maersk Line official said that the security contractors boarded the vessel on January 29, and that their deaths were "not related to vessel operations or their duties as security personnel." Maersk Line contracts with Trident Group in accordance with U.S. Coast Guard security directives. Contracted security is part of anti-piracy protection plans to safeguard crews and vessels, confirmed the Maersk rep. The Maersk Alabama is persistently in high-risk areas since she provides feeder service to the east coast of Africa. The ship has since left Port Victoria, the Seychelles capital.

www.maritime-executive.com...

I mistakenly posted the ex-Navy Seals date of death as 02/28/2014. It was actually 02/18/2014.

Trident Group President Tom Rothrauff confirmed today in a phone call that two of his contractors have “expired” on board one of his client’s ships.

gcaptain.com...

www.marinelog.com...:toxicology-report-awaited-in-maersk-alabama-guard-deaths&Itemid=229

www.dvidshub.net...

reply to post by sy.gunson


What is almost unforgivable is that there are VERY inexpensive flight tracking systems on the market that would have shown the exact location of the aircraft at any given time. The one that comes to mind is Spidertracks (a Kiwi system) that we use in tracking some of the helicopters in this area.

More Diego Garcia facts related to 777s.

ETOPS emergency landing site Diego Garcia may be identified as an ETOPS (Extended Range Twin Engine Operations) emergency landing site (en route alternate) for flight planning purposes of commercial airliners. This allows twin-engine commercial aircraft (such as the Airbus A330, Boeing 767 or Boeing 777) to make theoretical nonstop flights between city pairs such as Perth and Dubai (9,013.61 km or 5,600.80 mi), Hong Kong and Johannesburg (10,658 km or 6,623 mi) or Singapore and São Paulo (15,985.41 km or 9,932.87 mi), all while maintaining a suitable diversion airport within 180 minutes' flying time with one engine inoperable.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Mikeultra


I really really really want to say aye! cheers for that (the sources!) but academic in me is saying nein. Need credible sources dude. I'm not going out of my way to shut you down, because the maersk shisse, interests me. Credible sources are needed for this. Not just the obscure sources.

EDIT: Where is the US government saying oh shizzle we lost some dudes? Where's the local obituaries penned by relatives/friends of the deceased in US papers?

reply to post by roadgravel


The AAIB aren't ''conspiracy theorists'' they are the PROFESSIONAL, QUALIFIED Air Accidents Investigation Branch that INVESTIGATED and are INVESTIGATING the incident IN THEIR OFFICIAL CAPACITY to do so as qualified individuals as part of the Department of Transport, with details that the public weren't given access to.

Self proclaimed (often, like a few times an hour /day) 'pilots' aren't privy to the details of the investigation and aren't professional investigators, nor psychologists and so far the loudest of them all on this thread have been far off the mark in all their theories so far. I know who I would rather investigate something. Do the math!

A self proclaimed pilot on this thread claimed non pilots as conspiracy theorists only for spreading conspiracy theories about the incident being something other than the OFFICIAL INVESTIGATION'S FINDINGS.

The United Kingdom Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) is part of the Department for Transport and is responsible for the investigation of civil aircraft accidents and serious incidents within the UK. The Chief Inspector of Air Accidents reports directly to the Secretary of State for Transport.

The fundamental purpose of investigating accidents is to determine the circumstances and causes of the accident with a view to the preservation of life and the avoidance of accidents in the future; it is not to apportion blame or liability.

en.wikipedia.org...

The AAIB has 49 employees.[8]

These are:

Chief Inspector of Air Accidents

Deputy Chief Inspector of Air Accidents

6 teams of Inspectors from all disciplines led by a Principal Inspector

AAIB Inspectors fall into one of three categories:

Operations Inspector - must hold a current Airline Transport Pilots Licence with a valid Class I medical certificate. Able to offer appropriate command experience on fixed-wing aircraft or helicopters. Broad-based knowledge of aviation.

Engineering Inspector - must hold an Engineering degree and/or be a Chartered Engineer with a minimum of 5 years' post qualifications experience. Knowledge and experience of modern aircraft control systems.

Flight Recorder Inspector - degree level in electronics/electrical engineering or an aeronautical engineering related subject and/or is a chartered member of a relevant engineering institute with 8 years' experience since qualifying. Knowledge and experience of modern avionics.

There is also a Head of Administration who is supported by two teams, the Inspector Support Unit (ISU) who provide administrative support to the Principal Inspectors and their teams and the Information Unit (IU), who are the first port of call for accidents being reported.

AAIB administrative staff are part of the Department for Transport (DfT) and are recruited according to civil service guidelines.

auroraaus
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

I really really really want to say aye! cheers for that (the sources!) but academic in me is saying nein. Need credible sources dude. I'm not going out of my way to shut you down, because the maersk shisse, interests me. Credible sources are needed for this. Not just the obscure sources.

EDIT: Where is the US government saying oh shizzle we lost some dudes? Where's the local obituaries penned by relatives/friends of the deceased in US papers?

edit on 25-3-2014 by auroraaus because: (no reason given)

They were ex-Navy Seals employed by the Trident Group. This Trident Group website is not credible enough for you? Look at their requirements for hiring.

SUB-CONTRACTOR POSITIONS APASS Operator - Maritime Security Specialist All candidates should be willing and able to work in a high-threat environment. Mandatory Qualifications: US NAVY SEAL (5326/1130); served at least (6) years. Must have worked in an operational capacity within the last (2) years. All candidates will be required to pass a Medical & Drug Screening Criminal Background check Pass our Skills Validation Course (SVC) STCW 95 Basic Safety Course (BST) Vessel Security Officer Certification (VSO) Merchant Mariners Credential (MMC) - Seaman's Book Basic Offshore Safety Induction & Emergency Response Training (BOSIET) - Oil & Gas Industry

www.gotridentgroup.com...

reply to post by Mikeultra



Need official confirmation on that.

I'm not blowing the idea out of the water, but need credible sources, not just the ones you used.


Edit: Even if ex, surely there would be a write up in a US paper saying some american citizens died in seychelles blah blah
or obituraries by family/friends of the deceased. Even in their hometown/local rag.



2nd Edit: Dude, a position vacant doesn't say diddly about people who died prior in that said position which is now vacant.

auroraaus
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Need official confirmation on that.

I'm not blowing the idea out of the water, but need credible sources, not just the ones you used.


Edit: Even if ex, surely there would be a write up in a US paper saying some american citizens died in seychelles blah blah
or obituraries by family/friends of the deceased. Even in their hometown/local rag.

edit on 25-3-2014 by auroraaus because: (no reason given)

2nd Edit: Dude, a position vacant doesn't say diddly about people who died prior in that said position which is now vacant.

edit on 25-3-2014 by auroraaus because: (no reason given)

A U.S. newspaper?
articles.latimes.com...
www.nytimes.com...
Here's another source.
www.navysealfoundation.org...

reply to post by Mikeultra


totally better

Just trying to help build that case!

reply to post by Mikeultra


I followed Wiki's source on the ETOPS to a pdf file created by Boeing.

Found this interesting to say the least:

Typical Policy Statement for Remote US Military Airports:

"The US Navy advises that NSF Diego Garcia may be identified as an Extended Range Twin Engine Operations (ETOPS) emergency landing site (en route alternate) for flight planning purposes. This is consistent with US government policy that an aircraft can land at any US military airfield if the pilot determines there is an in-flight emergency that would make continued flight unsafe. However, as NSF Diego Garcia is a military facility, it s incumbent on aircraft operators to continuously monitor NOTAMS which may temporarily restrict the use of the airfield, even for emergency diversions. It is imperative that aircraft diverting to NSF Diego Garcia comply fully with all air defense procedures, as non-compliance could be misconstrued as a hostile act.

Further, it s understood there are published criteria for ETOPS airfields, and our policy concerning emergency use is not agreement or certification that this airfield meets those criteria. NSF Diego Garcia is a remote location with resources (accommodations, medical, hangars, crash/fire/rescue, etc) limited to levels essential for support of assigned personnel and the military mission. The airfield is available "as is" for emergency use only as indicated above."

-Policy Statement for NSF Diego Garcia, 2002

Boeing PDF

Seek_Truth
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

I followed Wiki's source on the ETOPS to a pdf file created by Boeing.

Found this interesting to say the least:

Typical Policy Statement for Remote US Military Airports:

"The US Navy advises that NSF Diego Garcia may be identified as an Extended Range Twin Engine Operations (ETOPS) emergency landing site (en route alternate) for flight planning purposes. This is consistent with US government policy that an aircraft can land at any US military airfield if the pilot determines there is an in-flight emergency that would make continued flight unsafe. However, as NSF Diego Garcia is a military facility, it s incumbent on aircraft operators to continuously monitor NOTAMS which may temporarily restrict the use of the airfield, even for emergency diversions. It is imperative that aircraft diverting to NSF Diego Garcia comply fully with all air defense procedures, as non-compliance could be misconstrued as a hostile act.

Further, it s understood there are published criteria for ETOPS airfields, and our policy concerning emergency use is not agreement or certification that this airfield meets those criteria. NSF Diego Garcia is a remote location with resources (accommodations, medical, hangars, crash/fire/rescue, etc) limited to levels essential for support of assigned personnel and the military mission. The airfield is available "as is" for emergency use only as indicated above."

-Policy Statement for NSF Diego Garcia, 2002

Boeing PDF

Interesting... so if there were incapacitated pilots flying by autopilot and they didn't respond to Diego Garcia, they would be treated as hostile! That explains why Immarsat, a British company has misdirected the search to the far South Indian Ocean!

reply to post by Seek_Truth


Brill find. I wish I could flag it too