Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

Bigburgh

Zaphod58
reply to post by Hendrick99

 

A bomb was always a possibility because of how sudden it was. However, there are also non-terror possibilities as well.

The stolen passports at this point is a data point but it's still far too early for more.

Luigi Maraldo and one other had their passports stolen in 2013.
Let's start with Luigi. The Italian security is very strict when it comes to such issues of stolen passports.
I can not think of a reason this passport was cancelled immediately.
Other than perhaps when this person boarded this flight with Luigi's passport it was not scanned properly.

And as far as the other passport that was stolen..the same..
Identity from that part of the world is bad..
So it may be just that as of yet.

I pointed out that wings don't cause a transponder to go out immediately...something big happened..
What that is as of yet..I don't know.
But this thread is now moving faster than I can post and read the page I was on.

See I posted and now 3 pages later. It comes up.

edit on 8-3-2014 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)

See my point I said this on the last page. And by the time it posted..it was no longer relevant. This thread is picking up speed.
Who ever keeps saying Muslims. Everything is still on the table.
Kuala Lumpur has a high populace of Muslims.

But let's wait before starting another war.
As of now it is a plane crash..nothing more just yet.

Bigburgh

Bigburgh

Zaphod58
reply to post by Hendrick99

 

A bomb was always a possibility because of how sudden it was. However, there are also non-terror possibilities as well.

The stolen passports at this point is a data point but it's still far too early for more.

Luigi Maraldo and one other had their passports stolen in 2013.
Let's start with Luigi. The Italian security is very strict when it comes to such issues of stolen passports.
I can not think of a reason this passport was cancelled immediately.
Other than perhaps when this person boarded this flight with Luigi's passport it was not scanned properly.

And as far as the other passport that was stolen..the same..
Identity theft from that part of the world is bad..
So it may be just that as of yet.

I pointed out that wings don't cause a transponder to go out immediately...something big happened..
What that is as of yet..I don't know.
But this thread is now moving faster than I can post and read the page I was on.

See I posted and now 3 pages later. It comes up.

edit on 8-3-2014 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)

See my point I said this on the last page. And by the time it posted..it was no longer relevant. This thread is picking up speed.
Who ever keeps saying Muslims. Everything is still on the table.
Kuala Lumpur has a high populace of Muslims.

But let's wait before starting another war.
As of now it is a plane crash..nothing more just yet.

Bilk22

Leonidas
reply to post by Bilk22

 

If you look up above I did answer that question specifically in a reply to you, directly.

I know the this thread is moving fast, so that can happen.

It seems that the Italian and Australian ministers offered verification of the stolen passports. Then there's this from this link.

China Southern, who jointly shared the route with Malaysian Airlines in what is termed in the industry a 'code share', said in a statement it had sold tickets to one Austrian and one Italian

I guess the passports and the loss of the plane cannot be separated at this point in time.

I never said it was separated, in fact I said to investigate them. My main point about the passports is that statistics show they are right up there with coins-in-the-couch for their ability to get lost and stolen in huge, huge numbers so it is unlikely it is tied to the cause.

There are a number of non-bomb, non-terrorist reasons for a flight to go down in this fashion and there is a real chance that the true cause will be found given the general location of the FDR/CVR at a relatively shallow depth.

reply to post by Bigburgh


What the double post!

Leonidas

Bilk22

Leonidas
reply to post by Bilk22

 

If you look up above I did answer that question specifically in a reply to you, directly.

I know the this thread is moving fast, so that can happen.

It seems that the Italian and Australian ministers offered verification of the stolen passports. Then there's this from this link.

China Southern, who jointly shared the route with Malaysian Airlines in what is termed in the industry a 'code share', said in a statement it had sold tickets to one Austrian and one Italian

I guess the passports and the loss of the plane cannot be separated at this point in time.

I never said it was separated, in fact I said to investigate them. My main point about the passports is that statistics show they are right up there with coins-in-the-couch for their ability to get lost and stolen in huge, huge numbers so it is unlikely it is tied to the cause.

There are a number of non-bomb, non-terrorist reasons for a flight to go down in this fashion and there is a real chance that the true cause will be found given the general location of the FDR/CVR at a relatively shallow depth.

Well the passport issue certainly isn't benign. The use of the stolen passport for the purchase of a ticket does not mean the persons who used them for that purpose ever boarded the plane. All we know is two tickets were purchased with stolen passports. For what purpose is yet to be determined. Wouldn't you agree? Or are stolen passports used every day to purchase airline tickets? Should we be concerned?

reply to post by Bilk22


It's an important data point that needs investigating, but it's too early to know if it's related, or something else.

Is it possible one of my fellow members could give a summary of the situation?

This thread has become quite long since I last stopped in and it would take some time to go through all the pages.

I heard an oil slick was found. Has anyone found the plane yet? Anyone know how long the passengers could stay alive with their air supply if the plane went down intact? I'm just wondering and might have missed the answers with so many posts.

It would be nice if better location technology was used on airliners to quickly locate underwater or crashed planes.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Two oil slicks were found near Vietnam. Two passengers were found alive, having reported stolen passports, but their names were on the manifest as being on the plane.

well i read through the thread (although i'm sure i missed something and it's probably twice as long now) and this is my conclusion based on the information provided.
it could have been....
1.terrorism-all circumstantial evidence at this point but, you have the passport situation (discussed at length above), the nature of the incident (a number of debris fields suggests it may have broken up in the air), the fact that there was no mayday call would fit into the scenario of a cockpit incursion (or would it?), also 40 minutes after TO they lost contact (a good time to hijack a plane, a good length of time to give a timed explosive, or possibly a altitude sensitive device which starts to work at cruise level which could explain a suggested drop in altitude if they knew what was going on), also i think someone would have claimed it by now. possible still.

2.mechanical or structural failure- poor maintenance has led to planes breaking up in the air and it was involved in a incident a few years earlier, i can't remember the details but there was a case of a Chinese 747 that had tailstrike damage the extent of which was not fully appreciated, i think the tail may have broken off. it was on that history channel show. It was though a pretty modern plane which made mostly long haul flights (rapid pressurisation and depressurisation during TO and landing cause the damage, so shorthaul aircaft suffer this most. Seems unlikely but possible

3.pilot error-the most common cause of plane crash i believe, but we won't be able to tell till black boxes an CVRs are found (assuming they are) possible, but the pilots were both experienced and the weather seems to not be an issue, so their job should havve been pretty straightforward at the time in question. possible but unlikely

4.military accident (missile) There was the incident with the korean missile earlier in the week, though a fair way away from this flight i think. as with a terrorist bomb the break up would make sense, a missile would probably not clearly show up on radar (may be wrong) as the radar is tuned to pick up slow moving bulky objects like airliners (slow is relative of course), not missiles or fighter jets which have anti radar design elements anyway. it has happened a number of times before that aircraft have seemed to been accidentally blown up during military excercises. i think there was one in the Adriatic, seem to remember a Saudi (or other arab country's plane) being blown up by the US, and the Soviet shot down a 747 during the cold war over near Vladivostok way. If it was this, it'll be a long time before we find out due to the political implications. definitely possible

5.weather-my man the pilot (the 777 feller) said the weather seemed benign, but we can't eliminate the possibility of something unprecedented. i suppose pilots do have to deal with weather they may not have been expecting (do they?). i'd say it is unlikely.

6.mid air collision-well there is no other missing plane so it seems highly unlikely. is it possible to fly with no clearance and no transponder? if you are doing something dodgey? i'd say we can rule it out for now.

7. and for the radical ATSers. HAARP, Aliens, God/Satan, Nibiru, Elenin, fiat currency, communism, and jews...

Not to disrespect the dead, but i don't think they'd want us all to be sending ourselves under about how terrible it all is, i for one wouldn't.

Love to all the people who will be touched by this tragedy, i've lost a friend in tragic circs already this year and we have to just be strong and remember how precious life is... edit... it was an Iranian plane (not an Arab country I know)

reply to post by orionthehunter


Nothing found yet.

The plane would flood quickly if it went in the water. It's not designed for that kind of pressure.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Stolen passports? That's not good.

If they have found oil slicks and no large amounts of floating debris, can we assume it was most likely intact when it went down? In other words, a bomb or something like that did not rip the plane apart in the sky?

Thanks Zaph.

reply to post by NoTarSed


#2 was Japan 123. They had a tailstrike that damaged the aft pressure bulkhead. When they replaced it there was only a single row of rivets instead of the double it required.

Twelve flights later the bulkhead failed. The decompression caused massive damage to the aft fuselage leadiing to the crash in the mountains.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Either that or it shattered into small pieces that haven't been found yet.

Bilk22

Leonidas

Bilk22

Leonidas
reply to post by Bilk22

 

If you look up above I did answer that question specifically in a reply to you, directly.

I know the this thread is moving fast, so that can happen.

It seems that the Italian and Australian ministers offered verification of the stolen passports. Then there's this from this link.

China Southern, who jointly shared the route with Malaysian Airlines in what is termed in the industry a 'code share', said in a statement it had sold tickets to one Austrian and one Italian

I guess the passports and the loss of the plane cannot be separated at this point in time.

I never said it was separated, in fact I said to investigate them. My main point about the passports is that statistics show they are right up there with coins-in-the-couch for their ability to get lost and stolen in huge, huge numbers so it is unlikely it is tied to the cause.

There are a number of non-bomb, non-terrorist reasons for a flight to go down in this fashion and there is a real chance that the true cause will be found given the general location of the FDR/CVR at a relatively shallow depth.

Well the passport issue certainly isn't benign. The use of the stolen passport for the purchase of a ticket does not mean the persons who used them for that purpose ever boarded the plane. All we know is two tickets were purchased with stolen passports. For what purpose is yet to be determined. Wouldn't you agree? Or are stolen passports used every day to purchase airline tickets? Should we be concerned?

edit on 8-3-2014 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)

If you had the chance to read my posts on the passport issue, you would see that I stately clearly many posts ago that the passport situation should be investigated. That said, I believe the established course of investigation into air crashes like this will more likely produce the cause of the crash.

Can we please move on from this? I dont want to be thought to be avoiding posts and questions, but I just dont find the stolen passport issue that compelling at this point.

I am more interested in the retrieval of debris and date recorders, if possible.

Zaphod58
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

Either that or it shattered into small pieces that haven't been found yet.

If so wouldn't something..anything, be seen floating around those oil slicks? as for the stolen passports, I'm not going to entertain any ideas about that being an issue, because I'm sure there are many plane tickets bought with stolen/fake ID on a daily basis, and nothing like this comes of it.

reply to post by Leonidas


True! You did.
While I was busy typing...pages went by and I missed it..
So I went back..

reply to post by AccessDenied


It depends. The wind at that altitude could have blown the lighter debris a long way. The slick could be fuel or hydraulic fluid, which is heavier.

AccessDenied

Zaphod58
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

Either that or it shattered into small pieces that haven't been found yet.

If so wouldn't something..anything, be seen floating around those oil slicks? as for the stolen passports, I'm not going to entertain any ideas about that being an issue, because I'm sure there are many plane tickets bought with stolen/fake ID on a daily basis, and nothing like this comes of it.

Yes why is that..hard to believe that not even a seat cushion didn't break away...
Or are they being kind to families as of yet. By holding the info.
Depending on wind and currents. Debris could be anywhere from 35k ft.

Whoops Zaphod answered fast..I'll just sit and read now

Zaphod58
reply to post by AccessDenied

 

It depends. The wind at that altitude could have blown the lighter debris a long way. The slick could be fuel or hydraulic fluid, which is heavier.

True, yes...but would there not be anything coming up to the surface as the plane sunk? A lack of visual debris makes me think the plane is intact. It's just the no communication thing that has me scratching my head.