Russia sinks own ship to block Ukrainian vessels, official says

reply to post by MysterX

A 'country' isn't being blocked from leaving, if anything...i'd guess the idea was to prevent something from entering that area, not leaving it.

The clip I read, the one we're discussing this whole topic says otherwise.

There are no Ukranian naval warships or military assets stationed there as far as i can tell. A few rusty clapped out boats, and a decommisioned tanker looks to be all that's there.

How do you know this? Where is your info coming from? You're in the UK, not Cremea. What are your credentuals for this information?

Your analogy about Japan doesn't work.

If an autonomous region in Japan had a population of 60% Americans where 1,200,000 Americans who lived there were fearful a newly installed fascist government in Japan was about to place jack boots on their necks, and asked for help from US troops stationed in nearby bases and the USA...then it might be somewhat similar.

If an autonomous region in Japan had a population of 60% Americans they would be called Japanese americans, or Japanese. So your analogy works even less. I'm not hashing on you so don't take it that way. I'm just responding in kind based on what I don't agree about with your views on this. This is exactly like saying... Say Tokyo had a bunch of people who used to be americans but now are citizens of Japan (considering Tokyo was not a city but a state within the country of Japan), and I must add, the numbers I've seen are less than 60% and barely over half IF even that.... and those people as a whole, not just the "60%", had issues with their government... I don't see the US stepping in to make sure those people would be safe. The UN, maybe. The US.. Doubtful. The county/state is no longer under our control nor are it's people our citizens. If you mean Russian citizens by 'can live anywhere in the world but can still hold dual citizenship' as russian citizens, then you have a point but not a valid one. It's not the same thing.

A large number of those ethnic Russians have officially requested assistance from the Russians stationed in Crimea

I've seen no proof of this. Where is this large number requesting assistance? Source? Nothing from RT counts.

I'm seeing alot being said here but I'm not seeing any sources or proof of it. I'm sorry but I don't take what others say without them showing me proof of it or at least giving me a source

The Russians don't have to ask the forces in that part of Ukraine to join forces with Crimean militias, let alone force them to as they are doing pretty well enough on their own

Yet the need to sink a ship in port. I still need to see your source of knowledge on what's in or out of this waterway.

Until then, my reasoning still stands

reply to post by SLAYER69


If you think Russian subs are not in the gulf and off all our coasts then you are deluded! Russia has been testing new ICBM's which they purport can not be intercepted 12+ warheads controlled like drones!

Like during the cold war just one wrong move could see a preemptive strike etc.. Personally I have had my fill of the war posturing! All that will come of this is a modern Russian army that trumps the US until we again get the high ground! We are gonna blow ourselves to hell and back man!

America is on the wrong side of History here!

SLAYER69

Wrabbit2000

"After Ukrainian independence"

Great catch.

lol... Yeah.. I figured some of the finer points wouldn't slide past your watchful eye.

You know me when I get into my research mode. I'm as likely to find and post things against my original position as for it, if it's factual to what I'm finding.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean



Nuclear Blackmail?

This is what you're afraid of?

Hell then by Putin's logic and actions this should give the US carte blanche then.

Pick a spot, any spot and let's just go claim it after all it will be 'America's because America says it is, that's why!"

Sorry for offtopic but wtf is this ? American blackwater soldiers in Donetsk ?

reply to post by SLAYER69


The threat of instant death is a powerful motivator.

reply to post by xavi1000


They're probably just the 'Other Mystery Soldiers' I needn't worry...


But which sides well trained, equipped and supplied 'Militia'

Donkey_Dean
The threat of instant death is a powerful motivator.

MAD doesn't play a part in this?

Again I'm not the one posting jingoist statements about the 'Bear' here. When I turn it around it doesn't look nor sound good though.

Does it?

he American soldiers are “military advisors”, ostensibly members of Blackwater private army (renamed Academi); a few hundred of them patrol Kiev while others try to suppress the revolt in Donetsk. Officially, they were invited by the new West-installed regime. They are the spearhead of the US invasion attempting to prop up the regime and break down all resistance. They have already bloodied their hands in Donetsk.

link

reply to post by xavi1000


Couple of stills

reply to post by SLAYER69


Academi is hiring Slayer! Hell man get your boots dirty!
careers.academi.com...

I advise everyone to check out the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. In exchange for Ukraine giving up its extensive nuclear arsenal they were to have their independence respected by all nations involved including Russia. Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom. I guess no good deed goes unpunished. Most of you are hypocrites or just anti-USA. If this move was pulled by the US. These forums would be ablaze with the usual hate speech.

But since this was done by one of the two saviors Russia,China being the other, its justified. No its not. You cant rail on the US and its tactics then stick your feet in your mouth and defend Russia. Its disgusting.

If Ukraine still had her nukes you think Russia would be stomping in like this? No they would be talking like they should have done from the beginning. Its not OK when the US does it. Its not OK when Russia does it. Its never OK. RT news anchors are dropping like flies. Maybe they have a problem swallowing the trash they are fed.

Here''s a video of it that just came out -



Nothing special, but yeah..

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


You sir remind me of the people who would just had kept on giving hitler land to avoid war. SOmetimes war is the only answer.

Yeah I would give them Crimea,but that is as far as I would let them go If their people actually vote to join Russia again SO be it.

Also When was this football game you are mentioning? Was it perhaps before Putin was in charge of Russia? I wonder if they would do it again knowing what Would happen eventually with their country and russia? Most likely not.

ALso its not a civil war if the country is a soverign nation versus another one. its a proper war.

And I have a question to anyone who can answer this. Why cant the ukranians go to that sunken ship and demo the damn thing or use underwater cutting tools to cut it into peices then drag them out the channel? Is it that hard to move or refloat it if all they did was open the valves to sink it? Its not tha hard. Russia sank it and by international law it is now salvage. Which they can drag back and charge russia storage for.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The Blackwater guys just change their "maidan sniper" clothes back to original...

reply to post by Xcathdra


Your question: Whats the difference between Crimea and Chechnya?

The answer: because of qiuck reaction of russians, Crimea will not become Chechnya (but the rest of Ukraine has now problems)

What is our biggest concern? We see the rampage of reactionary forces, nationalist and anti-Semitic forces going on in certain parts of Ukraine, including Kiev. I am sure you, members of the media, saw how one of the governors was chained and handcuffed to something and they poured water over him, in the cold of winter. After that, by the way, he was locked up in a cellar and tortured. What is all this about? Is this democracy? Is this some manifestation of democracy? He was actually only recently appointed to this position, in December, I believe. Even if we accept that they are all corrupt there, he had barely had time to steal anything. And do you know what happened when they seized the Party of Regions building? There were no party members there at all at the time. Some two-three employees came out, one was an engineer, and he said to the attackers: “Could you let us go, and let the women out, please. I’m an engineer, I have nothing to do with politics.” He was shot right there in front of the crowd. Another employee was led to a cellar and then they threw Molotov cocktails at him and burned him alive. Is this also a manifestation of democracy?

Read more details from the competent person without teleprompter:

Putin’s full one hour interview transcript

reply to post by butcherguy

Please tell me you are not calling for US military intervention. What should the Pres be doing do you think. ?

maghun
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Your question: Whats the difference between Crimea and Chechnya?

The answer: because of qiuck reaction of russians, Crimea will not become Chechnya (but the rest of Ukraine has now problems)

That does not answer the question.

Justification -
Crimea - 54% are ethnic Russians
Chechnya - 95% are ethnic Chechens

Crimea - Ethnic Russians are under threat
Chechnya - Ethnic Chechens are under threat

Crimea - The people have a right for self determination
Chechnya - Denied self determination

Crimea - Russia wont invade
Chechnya - Russia invaded several times

Crimea - "Pro Russian" forces are attacking those who don't agree with that position - Russia ignores it
Chechnya - Pro Chechen forces are fighting for independence - Russia invades / denies it.

do you get it yet?

Xcathdra


What is the difference between Chechnya and Crimea?

edit on 7-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

You have asked this several times now. They are spelt differently.