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Original Sin is a Good Thing

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posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:12 PM
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tetra50
So, was it really about freedom at all, but rather the realization that there is no such thing, and more a revealation to them to see they would constantly be offered "choices," which were not really choices as they weren't ever to be free. The "choices," only provided an illusion, and a way to test their character, whether free or not, whether real choices or only masked manipulations.
Tetra


For me God is not a character. Nor is the Snake. It's only me here. So manipulations are not controlled. We brought us here. We can leave too. If you don't know where you are going any road will take you there. You don't have to go anywhere while alive haha. In my version we were alive before physical and chose to be here. Not individually, but originally. Grammar gets weird. The choices are due to actions, movement. Going deeper into the "Life" makes things more and more complicated. Truth is not in words or in actions. I don't believe in Judgement, as an outside character, but more like cause and effect. OR as John Lennon would say "Instant Karma"



edit on 6-3-2014 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


By that logic, freedom is non-existant all together. We make the same quality of choices today. We have wider spectrum of options, but nevertheless, we are limited to that spectrum...and to what end? When it comes down to it, all of our choices boil down to three motives: quality of life, continuity of life, and for some the preparation for the afterlife.

So the real question is, how do you define freedom?

For me freedom is the ability to express my character through my choices.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:18 PM
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Grimpachi
reply to post by KnightLight
 


Well I don't think you understood what I said and missed the period. I have no idea why he brought up the Aztecs "period".
(I don't follow his line of thought.)

And

I started this thread in the philosophy section to stay away from the literal interpretations in the religious forums.




I don't care for your copy paste grim.


Periods don't change subjects. That's reserved for paragraphs. Randy gave no literal interpretations. So where are you coming from bringing up literal after aztec? I mean now you are saying you don't know what he is talking about, then you assert being literal is not the point, as if anyone thought it was. You must have thought someone was being literal. Or???

I'm starting to see what he was talking about too. Which is funny cause I never know what he is talking about.

edit on 6-3-2014 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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For me God is not a character. Nor is the Snake.
reply to post by KnightLight
 


Appreciate your responses, but would like to clarify, here, I never ever implied nor wrote God is a character. This was not the gist of what I wrote in any way. I clarify because this could be interpreted as highly disrespectful of God and not my intent. In fact, your response to what I wrote as revealing of character is way out of context of how it was written. The symbology of the story is a separate matter. Revealing character by how we make this "choices," which may not be choices at all, but just instituted into our experience to reveal certain things about us, is very different from seeing the symbol of the snake, as somehow equated with God as a "character."

As far as your statement about


So manipulations are not controlled."


Inherent within the concept of manipulation is the factor of control. Manipulation IS control…..



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:21 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by tetra50
 


By that logic, freedom is non-existant all together. We make the same quality of choices today. We have wider spectrum of options, but nevertheless, we are limited to that spectrum...and to what end? When it comes down to it, all of our choices boil down to three motives: quality of life, continuity of life, and for some the preparation for the afterlife.

So the real question is, how do you define freedom?

For me freedom is the ability to express my character through my choices.


Exactly, this is what I was saying is our only freedom, actually. but if you possess limited knowledge of a situation and asked to make a choice about it, then it's hardly a choice, is it? My point about freedom is we really have none, for I believe the knowledge we think we have is as manipulated as the choices surrounding it we perceive we have. Freedom, I believe, is a compelete illusion.
edit on 6-3-2014 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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tetra50

Holographicmeat
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


The only original sin a child has is their parent's. Children are a clean slate from the get go and are molded by the adults in their life. So, no. I don't believe in original sin. We are all products of our environment and experiences. That's what I think.


I thought children were totally exempt from "original," or any other sin, totally innocent, as no child is supposed to inherit the sins of the father (by extension, parents/family.)


o·rig·i·nal sin
nounCHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
1.
the tendency to sin innate in all human beings, held to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. The concept of original sin was developed in the writings of St. Augustine.

That is the original sin I was referring to. It's hogwash. A child automatically inherits the sins of their father because the parents are the ones that mold that childs mind.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


Manipulation requires an act requires a character.
You are only manipulating yourself was all I meant. You put yourself here. You created here. You make your choices here. It's all on you. BUT you can also cut through the noise.


Or put in another way.
I'm in the Jesus camp.
I AM GOD.


We disagree about something that is making our words not equal to each other.. Maybe that was it, but if not I can try again.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:26 PM
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Holographicmeat

tetra50

Holographicmeat
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


The only original sin a child has is their parent's. Children are a clean slate from the get go and are molded by the adults in their life. So, no. I don't believe in original sin. We are all products of our environment and experiences. That's what I think.


I thought children were totally exempt from "original," or any other sin, totally innocent, as no child is supposed to inherit the sins of the father (by extension, parents/family.)


o·rig·i·nal sin
nounCHRISTIAN THEOLOGY
1.
the tendency to sin innate in all human beings, held to be inherited from Adam in consequence of the Fall. The concept of original sin was developed in the writings of St. Augustine.

That is the original sin I was referring to. It's hogwash. A child automatically inherits the sins of their father because the parents are the ones that mold that childs mind.


What I read you saying is original sin if just an innate inherited quality, regardless of parentage or environment, as the price for Adam's choice and "fall." So, this seems to not be logical to your second assertion that, rather, this original sin was inherited because the parents mold the child's mind--totally different then the first assertion that it's inherited from Adam's fall.

Either way, I wonder if we shouldn't be more interested in the relation to what was chosen to eat, the act of eating for survival as it relates to the search for knowledge, and why that would designate any fall, whatsoever, or what the two things really have to do with one another.
Tetra



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:30 PM
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KnightLight
reply to post by tetra50
 


Manipulation requires an act requires a character.
You are only manipulating yourself was all I meant. You put yourself here. You created here. You make your choices here. It's all on you. BUT you can also cut through the noise.


Or put in another way.
I'm in the Jesus camp.
I AM GOD.


We disagree about something that is making our words not equal to each other.. Maybe that was it, but if not I can try again.


Manipulation, I don't see anyway, requires anything but more than one identity, seeking to control the thinking, action, consciousness and life of another.

As to the last, I don't agree I put myself, either, or that I am manipulating myself or created "here." Nor do I believe we have any other choices as that is the way I see it from the outset. And it's a huge difference, because according to your thought process, then, it is all on you. but according to mine, it isn't at all, in fact, all on you. And there's no way that we don't interactively affect and effect each others' lives. And since we do, it cannot just be about you, up to you, and all on you, then.
As far as being in Jesus' camp, and You being God……well, okay. Nice to meet you.
Tetra



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Here's my philosophy. Even now our knowledge threatens not only our
own existence. But pretty much that of every other life form
on the planet. Save the cockroach. It's completely obvious to me,
that God was right to withhold knowledge, from our dumb asses.
I site Fukushima, Chernobyl, Three mile island, Hiroshima and Nagasaki
as evidence of my point thus far.

The Bible teaches us that at one time we had a
relationship with the almighty. Very simply put, someone of a
higher existence, intelligence and all around greater knowledge
than our own. Who possesses the ultimate powers of creation and
destruction. The relationship I speak of, was not indifferent from
a Father and his children, all in good standing. But it was the kind
of heart that you possess Grim, that caused God, our failsafe and
all intelligent oracle, to step back at our own request. That we
should run the show ourselves. All out of our own vanity and
ignorance. And there you have your original sin.

We are just a bunch punk kids skipping school. Cause we think we
know it all and that in itself makes us really stupid. Some more than
others.

edit on Rpm30614v432014u50 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:37 PM
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That we
should run the show ourselves. All out of our own vanity and
ignorance. And there you have your original sin.

We are just a bunch punk kids skipping school. Cause we think we
know it all and that in itself makes us really stupid. Some more than
others.
reply to post by randyvs
 


This, in fact, is a large part of my point (though we may reach very different conclusions here, and may not agree how much of any of this comes from a higher power, anyway), but we do seem to think that "we know everything," within our pursuit of knowledge, which is what it was supposed to be about…..
We, as a species, assume that what we possess is knowledge, accurate, and that's all there is to it. And therefore, we must have enough to "run the show," when we aren't historically showing a great aptitude for that…. And perhaps this particular story of the Bible is meant to be more instructive of that than we most often interpret it as...
Tetra



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


See, that was our misunderstanding. It's the same one Jesus had with people when he said I AM GOD. He didn't mean him Jesus the body. Nor do I mean Knightlight the person. I think it's all one thing, and I go above my one life knowing I am in control.

If I thought it was just this life that I had I would agree with everything you posted. We would be manipulated and trapped. In my version I was the one who ate the Apple. Kind of like inception actually. each layer down a longer time passes. Millions of years down here could be a day on the surface. 7 days could be like 13 billion years.

Earth sign? hehe.

I won't argue about it anymore as now it's no a misunderstanding but a disagreement. That's cool though.

Oh and nice to meet you too. I like your style.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:42 PM
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tetra50

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by tetra50
 


By that logic, freedom is non-existant all together. We make the same quality of choices today. We have wider spectrum of options, but nevertheless, we are limited to that spectrum...and to what end? When it comes down to it, all of our choices boil down to three motives: quality of life, continuity of life, and for some the preparation for the afterlife.

So the real question is, how do you define freedom?

For me freedom is the ability to express my character through my choices.


Exactly, this is what I was saying is our only freedom, actually. but if you possess limited knowledge of a situation and asked to make a choice about it, then it's hardly a choice, is it? My point about freedom is we really have none, for I believe the knowledge we think we have is as manipulated as the choices surrounding it we perceive we have. Freedom, I believe, is a compelete illusion.
edit on 6-3-2014 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)


In order for freedom to be an illusion, it must first exist beyond the definition of decision making.

What freedom does God have? He has freedom to choose. To exist or not to exist. To create or not to create. Create a biological robot or a decision making being.

Even if both or all choices are manipulations in disguise, the truth and freedom exists in the motives involved in the decision making process.

Adam and Eve's motives were out of lack of faith in God's word. The bible ultimately teaches the same idea today. Choose Satan's system of the "Good/Evil" paradyme, or choose faith in Christ (imputed Divine Righteousness).

Therefore, if you believe all options are manipulations, then which manipulation do you choose? Either way, it does not deminish freedom of choice. Even the decision not to choose is a choice in itself.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by KnightLight
 


Thanks, I've enjoyed the exchange and your "style," as well, and nice to meet you.

Not really a disagreement, just some friendly debate, at least, I'd like to think.

Interesting, I also believe we've had many, many other lives. And interesting, also, because I often wonder about spinning a top and trying to ascertain how many levels I'm "down under," and if there are better layers? LOL. Referencing Inception, of course.
But even there, I see that as showing even less control, nor more…..
But interesting discussion with you. Thanks.
Tetra50



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


I would say you have it. In your skin as you prefer, but I did see
we were on the same page, indeed.
edit on Rpm30614v49201400000039 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:52 PM
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In your skin as you prefer
reply to post by randyvs
 


thanks, I think, Randy…..though I'm not sure what the above means.
Tetra



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by tetra50
 


Your thanks was appropriate my lady.
And your welcome I think.

edit on Rpm30614v542014u57 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 12:00 AM
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Original sin?

What is sin anyway?

In this life we are compelled to KILL in order to SURVIVE.

Seems like a shoddy foundation on which to build a morality
I'd say.

If there is a God, and there is a heaven,and I get to go there,
then I expect that he is not going to be very pleased with my
critique of his work.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


As I said before I put this in the philosophy section so that we could look at stories in a different way. I was hopeful it could have been a more positive way but unfortunately you seem to be stuck (indoctrinated) into thinking there is only one way. You act like knowledge has been our downfall and yes there have been some bad things but there are over 7 billion people on earth right now more than at any other point in history. Most preventable diseases were almost wiped out in the last 10 years however they are making a comeback in no small part to some groups( ahem zealots) who are ignorant. Now I could go on and on about those groups fighting over nonsense, spreading nonsense, continuing unhealthy practices, rejecting commonsense alternatives, or even wishing for the world to end and some even willing to help it along all over nonsense. I could even go on to explain why the nonsense they hold dear is nonsense.

Truth is though we are in one of the most peaceful times in history even with all that is going on and today the standard of living is higher than it has ever been. The more we learn the more people are educated and the sooner the world population losses their ignorance is when this world can become a real utopia. Unfortunatly their are still a lot of people that think the earth has been given to them to plunder and rule over, some of them strongly believe that.

Well anyway, it will be knowledge and wisdom that save us but it will not come from one book.

I am sorry you couldn't see the point to this thread, and that story. I didn't want it to be constrained to the establishments interpretation it seems that is the only way you can see it.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 12:06 AM
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tetra50
reply to post by KnightLight
 



And interesting, also, because I often wonder about spinning a top and trying to ascertain how many levels I'm "down under," and if there are better layers? LOL. Referencing Inception, of course.
But even there, I see that as showing even less control, nor more…..
But interesting discussion with you. Thanks.
Tetra50


Yea. That one does make it seem worse if you are looking for an end game. For me though it's what made me think I finally found freedom. It was finally ok for me to enjoy now, because there is no other dreamland to end up in that could be outside the matrix. And if I did get out, how would I even know, haha. And then once out what would I even do? So finding that I could be in an endless existence and maybe in level 100, even if I did get out I would only get up to level 99.. Then there is no where to get to. This makes it silly to run.

I even enjoy my dreams more now.


"I stand amid the roar Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep! O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp? O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave? Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream? "

Edgar Allan Poe

I mean an eagle flys, and a lion Roars. Neither can do both. The way that we are free is not each individual thing we are, but the ability to keep on going. We are never fully free at any given time. It wouldn't make any sense. Basketball makes sense because there are rules. If everyone did as they wanted the game wouldn't work and no one would know it was a game.


"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages."

Shakespeare

In this reality I do have to get to work in the morning though. So much for freedom eh eh??? Haha.


good night everyone.
edit on 7-3-2014 by KnightLight because: (no reason given)



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