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New Zealand to arrest loan defaulters at the border.

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posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:10 PM
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New Zealand is passing legislation to arrest students that haven't repaid there student loans, when they enter there home country again. It strikes me that this is madness, if you want a good education, you have to go into debt. In times of recession you cant pay the Debt back in time. Therefore you are now a criminal. All the politicians that are forming this legislation were of a generation that had their education paid for by the Tax payer, not to mention the fact that most are millionaires or near millionaires. Isn't it in a countries interest to have the most number well educated. But to then criminalise them for doing it strikes me very bizarre. The user pays economics tend to have many bizarre things attached ,Like intergenerational mortgages etc. If someone owes a legal debt, then when countries put in for loans it must class as assets even though the likelihood of retrieving the debt is remote. Is this how countries can fund their loans by indebting the population, in as many ways as possible?




posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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Care to post a link for any of this? Or are we taking this on your word?



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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Good catch OP. I guess this means when you go to college, you had BETTER get a good paying job at the end of the pipeline or you may as well just surrender yourself at the gates of the local lockup, eh? I know..it doesn't quite say that of course...but wow.. HARSH on what they are looking at!

Another source for those doubters out there.. lol

Bill will enable border arrests of tardy student loan debtors

^^ Radio New Zealand.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Ok thanks. I didn't see a source in the OP and my BS detector went off.

Anyways, hey look at it this way. For 4 years or so, you borrow money from government to pay for college. If you don't get a job good enough to pay it back, the state then gets to pay you for free room and board, food, and other things. Joking aside though, I thought debtors prisons went the way of the dinosaur back in the 1800's or so?



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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Why not just eliminate the middleman and put all HS grads in jail, free room and board (same size room as a dorm room, right?) and force them to learn what the states wants them to know and nothing else?

You get freed when you prove.... oh wait, you're never free. Nevermind.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Yeah, I thought so too on the debtors prisons. This hits close to home as the way I'm getting through college myself right now.

It seems that's changing in the US too though. Not on Student Loans yet, but ways to throw debtors into jail on procedural or technical stuff. A whole changing attitude in some directions.

Unfortunately, the Feds have all but taken control now with student loan funding vs. what it had been in the US...so it's a one stop shop and pop if they ever turn this direction about things. I think they already talked about (Or did?) passing something here for intercepting tax cheats or people just way behind, at the border and stop them from leaving?



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by anonentity
 


They will arrest them the what? Will the government make legislation so that allow instead of fgoing to jail they will have option of working for the government (e.g road works) for no money until they pay their debt or jail. I guess this is where the future could be going if the debt ceiling rises endlessly, prices of goods and services keep going up, and prisons have no capacity for holding all law breakers.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:58 PM
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i wonder how much it is to keep them in prison would it not be better to help them with the debt over a longer period ?



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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From the article:


The Government said on Tuesday that overseas borrowers are responsible for 80% of overdue loan repayments which now total about $535 million.

Revenue Minister Todd McClay said people will be arrested only in the most serious cases.


Perhaps if you take out a student loan you should take steps to pay it back...



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


This is legislation that seems to be getting more apparent as the right wing user pays credos gains traction. At present if you have unpaid traffic or court fines, (in N.Z) you can be stopped at the border and you can kiss your holiday goodbye. The main thrust of this is hitting the poor. The debts to the state are mounting up, wages get garnished .So as countries get more and more into debt are the Governments passing the debt onto the taxpayer?, with more and more efficient traffic fines etc. The days of a forty hour working week has long gone, GST (VAT in Britain) is charged on just about every transaction. Rates on housing increase mainly to service loans that councils have incurred, so the basic services they provide are ridiculously overpriced. The Debt levels of the average citizen must have increased to very high levels which must effect discretionary, income which means a cut back in spending is hitting businesses and jobs. Which means debt can never be paid off and in reality another tax burden is suffered. Leading to an economic death spiral. Not to mention prison populations increasing so yet another economic burden is paid by the taxpayer. It seems we are on the road to nowhere. That the modern capitalist business model hasn't much chance of coping with.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by 999zxcv
 


Its about 70k nz dollars at the moment .But electronic tagging is gaining traction.So you can jail yourself lol.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by anonentity
 


Yes the NZ govt is insane ( it does not help that the NZ PM is an wall st investment banker same man that told the media he has no proof that he is not a reptilian shapeshifter!?).
The prisons are privatized (and owned by foreign parties) so its just another plan for the big global corps to profit from the fed reserves debt slavery system.
Public assets in NZ were privatized .


It is so dumb, but then all of the last few years of NZ legislation (with the "national wall st party") is nuts.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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I'm going to be the unpopular guy in this thread and say kudos to them for doing it.

Before you all set your flame throwers to incinerate, hear me out;

NZ has a major problem with 'brain drain' . It's a well known fact that people educate themselves and head off overseas never to be seen again. Basically these people are crapping in their own nest by burdening the country with yet more debt, then making it that little but harder for everyone else when they disappear into a new country laughing at the fact they cheated the system and scored a free uni degree.

As student loan repayments come out of your pay every week, it's very difficult for the honest person who stays in NZ until their debt is paid to fall behind and therefore they have nothing to fear.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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Elton
From the article:


The Government said on Tuesday that overseas borrowers are responsible for 80% of overdue loan repayments which now total about $535 million.

Revenue Minister Todd McClay said people will be arrested only in the most serious cases.


Perhaps if you take out a student loan you should take steps to pay it back...


WHAT a concept! Do you mean to tell me that someone who loans you money actually expects you to pay it back? It looks to me from the article that they don't expect you to have paid it all back at all; they expect you to be paying it back. I know that may seem like a minor difference, but the idea is that you don't default on the loan, that you make periodic payments toward it so that, in time, you have it all paid off. The only people in trouble here are those who have simply ignored the loan.

Now I know the loan situation is seriously messed up, but I would submit that reform is necessary in an area other than simply changing the rules so that you don't have to pay it back. It's really the same issue that hit the housing market. Loans were made to people who were NEVER going to be able to pay them back. Those who received loans were able to get "stated" loans where they did not have to verify their income. In many cases loans were given to people simply because they complained of discrimination in that it "wasn't fair" that people who could never pay back a loan could not get a loan where people who COULD pay back a loan were allowed one.

What needs to happen is a return to sane loan practices where the borrower has to make the case that he can pay back a loan on the basis of the likelihood he can get a job that allows that. Now, you say, "well what about in a recession when you can't get a job?" OK. How many engineers can't get jobs? How many pharmacists can't get jobs? How many people who have taken out loans to learn real skills necessary in today's world cannot get jobs?

What the loaners really need to do is STOP LOANING money for bachelor's degrees in English, anthropology, and "ethnic studies" in favor of fields that actually have some demand in the real world. We have enough fry cooks already. We have enough people who can demand free stuff, but who know how to do nothing really useful. We have enough people who skate through university on the strength of things we can't discuss on ATS because of T&C and have put no thought into their future at all.

Now I don't think the loaners should simply refuse to loan you money for some degree on some black list. If you can make a case for yet another degree in English, then MAKE YOUR CASE. Just exactly how are you going to pull this off? How do you propose to make a living of sufficient means to both live and pay off this loan? What is your fallback position? And if you can show a concrete plan, then good for you!

But enough of this rubber-stamping of loans for anything because that's what you demand to "study." If the demand for actual jobs in your chosen field is not there, you shouldn't be able to get a loan, and then complain about it for the next twenty years.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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schuyler

Elton
From the article:


The Government said on Tuesday that overseas borrowers are responsible for 80% of overdue loan repayments which now total about $535 million.

Revenue Minister Todd McClay said people will be arrested only in the most serious cases.


Perhaps if you take out a student loan you should take steps to pay it back...


WHAT a concept! Do you mean to tell me that someone who loans you money actually expects you to pay it back? It looks to me from the article that they don't expect you to have paid it all back at all; they expect you to be paying it back. I know that may seem like a minor difference, but the idea is that you don't default on the loan, that you make periodic payments toward it so that, in time, you have it all paid off. The only people in trouble here are those who have simply ignored the loan.

Now I know the loan situation is seriously messed up, but I would submit that reform is necessary in an area other than simply changing the rules so that you don't have to pay it back. It's really the same issue that hit the housing market. Loans were made to people who were NEVER going to be able to pay them back. Those who received loans were able to get "stated" loans where they did not have to verify their income. In many cases loans were given to people simply because they complained of discrimination in that it "wasn't fair" that people who could never pay back a loan could not get a loan where people who COULD pay back a loan were allowed one.

What needs to happen is a return to sane loan practices where the borrower has to make the case that he can pay back a loan on the basis of the likelihood he can get a job that allows that. Now, you say, "well what about in a recession when you can't get a job?" OK. How many engineers can't get jobs? How many pharmacists can't get jobs? How many people who have taken out loans to learn real skills necessary in today's world cannot get jobs?

What the loaners really need to do is STOP LOANING money for bachelor's degrees in English, anthropology, and "ethnic studies" in favor of fields that actually have some demand in the real world. We have enough fry cooks already. We have enough people who can demand free stuff, but who know how to do nothing really useful. We have enough people who skate through university on the strength of things we can't discuss on ATS because of T&C and have put no thought into their future at all.

Now I don't think the loaners should simply refuse to loan you money for some degree on some black list. If you can make a case for yet another degree in English, then MAKE YOUR CASE. Just exactly how are you going to pull this off? How do you propose to make a living of sufficient means to both live and pay off this loan? What is your fallback position? And if you can show a concrete plan, then good for you!

But enough of this rubber-stamping of loans for anything because that's what you demand to "study." If the demand for actual jobs in your chosen field is not there, you shouldn't be able to get a loan, and then complain about it for the next twenty years.


Theirs a lot of sense in what you are saying, but whatever is done it will make very little difference. I remember back in the eighties when a nice house in a nice suburb cost two years wages. Now its seven years and rising with the extra cost paid in interest to the banks. Indebtedness started with credit cards, people actually thought it was some sort of manna from heaven. At some stage Debt burdens become overwhelming, and the whole house of cards starts to collapse.When Investors have more money than investments available, it means that they will loose money. But the savvy only want Blue chip, what better than charging interest on an education, it opens a whole new investment opportunity, and a whole lot of sense in investing in a Government that will increase the indebtedness of the coming generation. So you end up with only the best getting hired and PHD's flipping Burghers.
How come in the past an education was free, and basically, engaged in by those intelligent enough to receive it. The graduates that I see now are no more brighter than those that used to leave school at sixteen. In fact its been industrialised for the making of the money for the educators, to keep students out of the work force as there aren't enough jobs anyway, and to pay for this state of affairs, the students have to pay for the privilege, with a good smattering of interest! smells more like a con job.
edit on 6-3-2014 by anonentity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 08:32 PM
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anonentity
I remember back in the eighties when a nice house in a nice suburb cost two years wages. Now its seven years and rising with the extra cost paid in interest to the banks.


Dont even get me started on this one. It upsets me to the very core of my being that houses are becoming far far beyond the means of the average new zealander. This is a ploy by the government to leverage more borrowing power for national debt and it stinks. Basically, increase the value of the country by letting greedy overseas investors come in and stage an enormous land grab speculate on it and drive prices through the roof, you can borrow more money. Who gives a damn about the average citizen? they don't need a place to live, let's just borrow like there's no tomorrow and force everyone into poverty.

Whoops, I got started.... This gets me passionate because I saw what happened to the value of my parents farm. My little brother is a farmer and dreams of owning his own farm like Dad did, but he has to be a multi millionaire to even think about owning land now




Indebtedness started with credit cards, people actually thought it was some sort of manna from heaven. At some stage Debt burdens become overwhelming, and the whole house of cards starts to collapse.When Investors have more money than investments available, it means that they will loose money.


Banks were almost predatory with their lending before 2008. My dad (a dairy farmer) was constantly being approached by the banks and being asked "How much money do you want?"

Fortunately he had the insight to understand that borrowing = repayments and the more you borrow, the higher the repayments.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 08:34 PM
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Debtors prison makes it grand return.

I've heard there are MANY countries who are going to be re-introducing this dirty little tactic. Even in the event you owe to a private institution.

How digusting. I never understood why you system forced you into 100K plus worth of debt, in order to start at 45K a year and be a productive tax paying member of society. The money that should go back into the system in the form of big purchases is replaced by the large payment being sent to the government's coffer's every month.

Sad.

~Tenth



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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Arresting people for govt debt, and then thrown them in govt prisons to create more govt debt is insanity.

Far better to make them work to pay back the debt, by either lowering the ceiling, or forced labor as someone said....on the roads or something.

But that is not the problem.

The problem is the NZ population is 4 million, with very little opportunities for people in such a small economy.
They just happen to have a huge nation 3 hours flight away, that has a huge population (compared to NZ), $100K per year mining jobs, lots of "Skilled" jobs for College graduates (so they say), etc etc.

Naturally any kid with any designs on their future, go straight to Australia to make their fortune.
In fact I would say almost half the Worlds NZers live in Australia...they are everywhere
.

It would be these people the govt is targeting, because they pay taxes in Australia if they work there, not in NZ. THerefore the govt does'nt get its investment back.

It would be better if they could find some sort of tax arrangement with Australia, or just become the 8th Australian state and reap all the benefits.....the benefits they seem to want, when they go to Australia in the first place.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:00 PM
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tothetenthpower
Debtors prison makes it grand return.

I've heard there are MANY countries who are going to be re-introducing this dirty little tactic. Even in the event you owe to a private institution.

How digusting. I never understood why you system forced you into 100K plus worth of debt, in order to start at 45K a year and be a productive tax paying member of society. The money that should go back into the system in the form of big purchases is replaced by the large payment being sent to the government's coffer's every month.

Sad.

~Tenth


You could ask how constitutional is it to be expected to pay off loans , that you neither asked for or condoned, brought about by governments who's policies you never entertained. Run by a cabal of backscratching mates, who's combined coffers increase whilst they are governing, that resulted in the surplus of investor funds looking to profit from the indebtedness of there constituents. We are the idiots for letting it happen. Which leads credence to the statement "That laws are made by the rich to protect their wealth". and "Never give a sucker an even break."



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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Elton
From the article:


The Government said on Tuesday that overseas borrowers are responsible for 80% of overdue loan repayments which now total about $535 million.

Revenue Minister Todd McClay said people will be arrested only in the most serious cases.


Perhaps if you take out a student loan you should take steps to pay it back...


exactly..
this bill isn't locking up people who have debt, its locking up people who consistently refuse to pay it back.



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