NEWS: Israeli officer: I was right to shoot 13-year-old child

The horrendous shooting of a young palestinian girl has started the usual cat and mouse game between justice and the IDF. The army has opted to protect its own by only charging "Captain R" with minor offences.
No remorse seems to be the attitude of the accused officer, and that attitude sadly seems to be about par for the course in the region.



I wonder what "minor" offence they are charging him with. Not killling more young palestininans? Not unloading TWO clips into her? He should have shot her earlier? What?

This is the IDF sending another clear signal to the world: "we shoot who we like, and get away with it OK?!?!"

Attitudes like that will keep IMI in business for a long time to come, sadly.

[edit on 24/11/2004 by Corinthas]

[edit on 24/11/2004 by Corinthas]

I want to see someone defend this soldiers actions, it would be quite the discourse.

This was disgusting....

I hope this guy is faced with the death penalty, to shoot in an innocent 10 year old is beyond words. Then they wonder why the Palestinians are so pissed off...

Deep

Sickening. Where oh where are our resident Israeli apologists to defend this?

This is the kind of thing that energizes the rest of the world against Israel. What kind of human being does something like this and what kind of government forgives it?


Disgusting.

Where oh where are our resident Israeli apologists to defend this?

Are you that insecure in your beliefs that you have to attack people before anyone even says anything? I think that's a real problem you should address professionally.

That said, if that is in fact what happened, very simply my opinion is that the person needs to stand trial for his actions. This should not be something where the government comes up with charges, but rather a case where the action committed is carefully analyzed and he must answer for himself based on them. He is a soldier and an adult and must be held responsible for what he does.

So Jakomo, do I usually defend Israel from one-sided attention/point whores who can't let a week go by without saying something nasty? Yes. Do I possess the necessary intellect to understand that when someone does something illegal and just plain wrong they need to be punished? Yes.

I think you need to stop attacking other members (even before they talk) simply because they don't share your view on the world.

Originally posted by Jakomo

This is the kind of thing that energizes the rest of the world against Israel. What kind of human being does something like this and what kind of government forgives it?

Not that much different from the so called mercy killing by a couple of US troops

www.pittsburghlive.com...

but hopefully they will do some serious time for it.

Its not good whenever anyone over there kills an innocent, espiacally a child. No one can defend what he did, nor can they defend what Hamas and Palestine has done. This man needs to stand trail for what he did.

To use your own medicne agaisnt you Jakomo, where are you whenever Hamas or a Palestinian blows up a bus of civilians?

saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old

Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions

Israel's racism against the Palestinian people couldn't be more apparent than in this example of blind hatred and its official response to the incident. What a display of low morality for all the world to see.

Since Israel is such a just nation, in fairness it should grant the Palestinians the temporary use of its monster bulldozers to go and level Capt. R.'s home to rubble, the homes of his near relatives, and a few others for good measure, and tear up any orchards along the way, fill in a few wells, and rip up some infrastructure. And if anyone protests or stands in the way, just run them over and park on top for a few minutes and then exonerate the driver like Israel did in the case of Rachel Corrie.

Since an IDF member's killing of a Palestinian child is a minor offense, like spitting on the sidewalk, all that will come of this is a public display to show that Israel took notice, maybe punish the good Capt. by giving him a commendation, a pay raise, thicker body armor, and back to business as usual.

Rather than wonder where are the voices of our usual Israel apologists, I am waiting to hear some words of condemnation from our own leaders. I am not aware that there have been any yet.

To use your own medicne against you Jakomo, where are you whenever Hamas or a Palestinian blows up a bus of civilians?

Whoa, JediMaster, what a clever device you employ to cloud the issue. Of course Capt. R. was justified to pump 13 bullets into an innocent defenseless child on her way to school. If only it had been a 3 year old he could have conserved lead and saved a few bullets for other children. Why, these Palestinian kids are a nuisance and breathing Israeli air. What more reason must a respectable IDF officer need to murder them?

Originally posted by dubiousone

To use your own medicne against you Jakomo, where are you whenever Hamas or a Palestinian blows up a bus of civilians?

Whoa, JediMaster, what a clever device you employ to cloud the issue. Of course Capt. R. was justified to pump 13 bullets into an innocent defenseless child on her way to school. If only it had been a 3 year old he could have conserved lead and saved a few bullets for other children. Why, these Palestinian kids are a nuisance and breathing Israeli air. What more reason must a respectable IDF officer need to murder them?

Dub, I never challanged you to anything. I was talking to Jakomo, I asked him not you a question. Where did I say that this man was right to kill a child? Where did I say that it was justified? I clearly said in my first paragraph before I asked a member who is not you a question.

"Its not good whenever anyone over there kills an innocent, espiacally a child. No one can defend what he did, nor can they defend what Hamas and Palestine has done. This man needs to stand trail for what he did."

And in response to your first statement, what about Palestinian terrorists blowing up kids? Both sides are not morally clean, but Palestine is deeper in the craphole since their people are blowing up buses full of kids.

This Isreali should be tried for his heinous crime, no doubt about it. But where are you critizisms of Palestinian terror?

Originally posted by dubiousone
Israel's racism against the Palestinian people couldn't be more apparent than in this example of blind hatred and its official response to the incident. What a display of low morality for all the world to see.

I think Israels rascism applies to all non jewish people, some of them even dont like jewish people that do not live in Israel.


Gods People and Nazi Ubermench, there are similaritys


[edit on 24-11-2004 by DrSpeedo]

dirt bag when he is questioned at the pearly gates by Moses. How long will it be before Moses sends him to hell?

forget that the players in this are Israeli and Palestinian. Does it change the fact that an unarmed child was targeted?

A child was shot in spite of the fact that she was actually leaving a secured area, after she had been identified as a child and after they had discussed how frightened and young she appeared to be.

This child, who originally had been shot in the leg, was then approached by this man and shot in the head twice - he then proceeded to rake her body with additional gun fire.

How is this any less than cold blooded murder?

From the article:

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

The case came to light after soldiers under the command of Captain R went to an Israeli newspaper to accuse the army of covering up the circumstances of the killing.

His own words speak volumes about his feelings about the life of this child. He should be charged with murder.

B.

Jedimaster asks:

Where did I say that this man was right to kill a child?

You didn't say he was right to do that. Your question to Jakomo, "To use your own medicne agaisnt you Jakomo, where are you whenever Hamas or a Palestinian blows up a bus of civilians?" suggests that atrocities committed by others somehow makes this one less serious. Whether or not Jakomo is on record condemning the atrocities commited by Palestininans is irrelevant to what the good Capt. R. believes God has commissioned him to do. That doesn't mean he supports their atrocities.

what about Palestinian terrorists blowing up kids? Both sides are not morally clean, but Palestine is deeper in the craphole since their people are blowing up buses full of kids.

I agree. Both are morally bankrupt. Some might differ with the latter portion of your statement and say that Palestine is deeper in the craphole because it's not a fair conflict -- the US arms and has always armed Israel to the teeth, for free, and to do what it wants -- whereas in relative terms the Palestinians have pea shooters and stones as their weapons against Israeli aggression. Some would say that the Palestinian militants resorted to "terror" (a much misused and abused term) because they had no other means of striking back or defending against the abuses their people suffer on a daily basis at the hands of Israel's leaders and the IDF which are all made possible through the U.S. largesse and the U.S. silence in the face of Israel's persistent misconduct. That's what I believe some would say. And, yes, it's a downward spiral. Those tactics are universally condemned, counter-productive, downright stupid, and evil.

Dub,

Ok at least you agree there. Both sides are at fault for this, but the fact that the Palestinian government does not stop Hamas is appalling. Ii believe there should be a Palestinian state, but groups like Hamas are not helping them. It would be assinine to say that one side is clean or better thant he other in terms of morality, they both have killed children, but I support Isreal because of the actions of groups like Hamas. I have no rpoblem against the common Palestinian but groups like Hamas would most likely have corrupted their government are hruting their chances of a state.

The question to Jakomo, was asked since he in my opinion is oneof those who damn one side in an area where both sides are damned and does not comment on the attrocities of the side he supports.

Originally posted by Bleys
His own words speak volumes about his feelings about the life of this child. He should be charged with murder.

Agreed.

Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
How long will it be before Moses sends him to hell?

Are you serious with this statement? I hope not, because registering for this site requires at least some measure of intelligent thinking, which that hateful, nasty, ignorant, and cheap remark obviously does not.

Originally posted by DrSpeedo
I think Israels rascism applies to all non jewish people, some of them even dont like jewish people that do not live in Israel.

I'm glad you think that. I think you're wrong. Have you been there and dealt with the people there? I have. Do you even know anyone from there? I think you should at least know people you're trashing before you can consider yourself "qualified" to make a pitiful generalization like that.

Originally posted by DrSpeedo
Gods People and Nazi Ubermench, there are similaritys

Please see my remarks to GrndLkNtv. They refer to this statement as well.

I wish people wouldn't take it upon themselves to hijack threads that discuss important world issues and turn it into their own private forum of garbage. I believe the other posts in this thread are very valid, very intelligent, and deal with a very serious topic. I don't think that any member here has the right to degenerate a discussion like this into a toilet bowl. Think before you post.

Originally posted by Djarums
I'm glad you think that. I think you're wrong. Have you been there and dealt with the people there? I have. Do you even know anyone from there? I think you should at least know people you're trashing before you can consider yourself "qualified" to make a pitiful generalization like that.

Yes, its just my guess based on my impressions..

Its a country dominated by very nationalistic far right wing politics, and I draw my conclusions from that fact. That that not applie to ALL Israelis, there is a peace movement there as well, wich I have a greate respect for.

Originally posted by Djarums
Please see my remarks to GrndLkNtv. They refer to this statement as well.

So, what is the difference between Gods people and "Arian Ubermench"?

Edit:
Whats the difference beetween someone that belives he is chosen by god to lead other people and a person that belives he belongs to a race that are supperior other races and shall lead them?

I'm a Atheist so I have a very hard time relating to the religous aspects.


[edit on 24-11-2004 by DrSpeedo]

Its a country dominated by very nationalistic far right wing politics, and I draw my conclusions from that fact.

I can understand that, but it would be smart to also look at less recent trends. Keep in mind that there were a number of "far far from right wing" politicians in charge for a while in Israel. Rabin, Peres, and Barak as well were all well known for showing willingness to deal in "Land for Peace" scenarios. Why the shift to the right? Well, after Barak's offer to Arafat was refused the people of Israel's mantra changed. It changed from "We REALLY need peace, we need to protect our kids and ourselves, and we need to do whatever it takes to acheive that." It became "What the hell do we do now?" and the uncertainty that the failure of those peace accords caused brought about that shift to the right. Does it mean that all Israelis are right wingers? I don't think so. Most Israeli citizens don't give a damn and don't get caught up in this stuff. They want the same thing that the Palestinian citizens want which is a normal life without getting blown up or attacked. I hate to single you out, but people REALLY need to learn the difference between Israeli politicians and citizens. I think Chirac is an idiot but you don't hear me saying "Those stupid Frenchies" and I don't like Castro but I wouldn't say all Cubans are nuts. So? The same should apply across the board.

Whats the difference beetween someone that belives he is chosen by god to lead other people and a person that belives he belongs to a race that are supperior other races and shall lead them?

I'm a Atheist so I have a very hard time relating to the religous aspects.

I understand your issue and personally do not know how to address it. Just note that every religion on earth believes itself to be the right one and its followers believe that they are correct and are the ones going to heaven etc. It's a common vein in all of them. Clearly it's the case in Judaism and Islam. In Christianity... well I don't think I'd get told "Accept Jesus and be redeemed" on the train all the time if they didn't feel that way. All religions do that, not just one.

Djarums:

So Jakomo, do I usually defend Israel from one-sided attention/point whores who can't let a week go by without saying something nasty? Yes. Do I possess the necessary intellect to understand that when someone does something illegal and just plain wrong they need to be punished? Yes.

I think you need to stop attacking other members (even before they talk) simply because they don't share your view on the world.

You're free to suggest what you'd like to me. I said "Israeli apologists" and you automatically lumped yourself into that category. You might want to look into that.

Jedimaster:

To use your own medicne agaisnt you Jakomo, where are you whenever Hamas or a Palestinian blows up a bus of civilians?

I'm right here, saying it's wrong. But it's militants, not specially trained Armed Forces personnel... See the difference?

You tit-for-tat very well.

"Yeah so an IDF soldier blew away an 11 year old girl without compunction. What about radical Palestinians who blow themselves up?"

Good one. Rather than condemn him, try to blame the Palestinians for starting it.

Originally posted by Djarums
Why the shift to the right? Well, after Barak's offer to Arafat was refused the people of Israel's mantra changed.

Baraks offer was not that "generous", I know you know that. This must have been discussed a million time on this board?

Originally posted by Djarums
I hate to single you out, but people REALLY need to learn the difference between Israeli politicians and citizens.

Who shall then be responsible for demorcatic elected leaders with obvious agendas?

But shure, I get your point as well





[edit on 24-11-2004 by DrSpeedo]

You're free to suggest what you'd like to me. I said "Israeli apologists" and you automatically lumped yourself into that category. You might want to look into that.

It's nice to know that some people are consistent. At least your arguments never change.

Your point should be worded that I am not someone who allows uneducated people to one sidedly trash anyone, be it America, Israel or whoever. By reading my posts (including the ones in this thread which I'm sure you could take a second or two to read) you will find that I hold both sides of this particular conflict responsible for it. Unlike other people who due to acorn-brain syndrome insist on blaming only one. As the ancient saying goes "It takes two to tango" and sadly many of you miss that point.

So yeah, to sum up, I do defend Israel. And I defend America too. Unlike others though I do acknowledge when they commit acts that are wrong. I'm not inventing that, you can see it in all of my posts over the years. I'm damn proud of my views, I believe them to be correct, and I strongly dislike people who enjoy blaming people for everything under the sun because it suits their agenda. If that makes someone dislike me in turn, so be it and a happy thanksgiving to you in spite of that.