It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape

page: 3
32
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:08 PM
link   

okamitengu

Xcathdra


If its all the same I will accept the Estonian ministry's response over that of Russia and RT.
edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


because it suits what you have decided is the truth...


No - because Estonia clarified the incident. An incident Russia / RT are trying to use to justify their actions.

Why would I not listen to the Estonian government. They would know more about the incident would they not?

Secondly, don't attack me because you don't like the info. if you think Estonia is lying, feel free to debunk their response.
edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:49 PM
link   

Xcathdra

okamitengu

Xcathdra


If its all the same I will accept the Estonian ministry's response over that of Russia and RT.
edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


because it suits what you have decided is the truth...


No - because Estonia clarified the incident. An incident Russia / RT are trying to use to justify their actions.

Why would I not listen to the Estonian government. They would know more about the incident would they not?

Secondly, don't attack me because you don't like the info. if you think Estonia is lying, feel free to debunk their response.
edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


firstly, if the estonian government did do it, they would lie about it, like everyone else, so what you believe comes down to what you already believed before this, which as we have all seen, is clearly not the russian side of things.

second, its only an attack if you believe you have something to defend. I was only pointing out your choice was only about reinforcing your already stated position... if you think that's an attack, then you have a very big emotional problem internally that you need to deal with.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:54 PM
link   
This is some pretty darn compelling evidence! The Guardian reported it too, and they'd never have it if it wasn't confirmed to be legit.

This is from a serious source that simply can't be a Russian undercover agent, as Estonia's really far from being in bed with the Kremlin. That politician also sounds to be serious about the current situation.

Flagged!
edit on 5/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:21 PM
link   
reply to post by okamitengu
 


The comment by the Estonian official was portrayed in a manner that was inconsistent with what actually happened. Their minister discussed what he had heard, as the statement notes, and did not say they actually hired the snipers.

There is a huge difference.

What you accuse me of towards Russia is the very thing you are doing back towards Ukraine / EU/ US.

Ironic, yet funny.

RT / Russia / people in these forms desperately want to justify Putin's ill conceived invasion of Ukraine. That action blew up in Putin's face from the start and people are now going to any length to try and save face.

The Estonian minister / Estonian government settled the matter in which you and others, including Russia / RT, are refusing to acknowledge. You should find another issue to try and manipulate, since this one was quashed and is going nowhere.


Estonia denies leaked call implicates Ukraine protesters in killings


TALLINN (Reuters) - Estonia denied on Wednesday that a leaked telephone call showed that its foreign minister had blamed opponents of Ukraine's deposed president for sniper killings during last month's unrest - as Russian media have suggested.

The Baltic state acknowledged that the audio recording of a conversation between Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton was authentic, but rejected the way some have interpreted it.



edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:27 PM
link   

Echtelion
This is some pretty darn compelling evidence! The Guardian reported it too, and they'd never have it if it wasn't confirmed to be legit.

This is from a serious source that simply can't be a Russian undercover agent, as Estonia's really far from being in bed with the Kremlin. That politician also sounds to be serious about the current situation.

Flagged!
edit on 5/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)


Trying to spin the story eh?

Not only did the Guardian carry the story, it specifically pointed out the Estonian governments position. Would that be why you didn't bother linking to the article? Hoping the mention of a western news source alone would be enough?

Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev snipers


The leak came a day after the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said the snipers may have been opposition provocateurs. The Kremlin-funded Russia Today first carried the leaked call online.

The Estonian foreign ministry confirmed the leaked conversation was accurate. It said: "Foreign minister Paet was giving an overview of what he had heard in Kiev and expressed concern over the situation on the ground. We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition's involvement in the violence." Ashton's office said it did not comment on leaks.


Something the RT Article conveniently leaves out... Who is spinning what?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:11 PM
link   
New news on this just hit...

From the Valisministeerium:

No. 84-E Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton uploaded to the Internet today, a phone call is authentic......

"It is extremely regrettable that such an interception is occurring at all""said Paet., Including its call for today's photos are not random," he added.

from zerohedge ...

www.zerohedge.com...



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:46 PM
link   

R_Clark
New news on this just hit...

From the Valisministeerium:

No. 84-E Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton uploaded to the Internet today, a phone call is authentic......

"It is extremely regrettable that such an interception is occurring at all""said Paet., Including its call for today's photos are not random," he added.

from zerohedge ...

www.zerohedge.com...


My 2 posts just above yours is the same info, with the addition of the response from the Estonian Foreign Ministry that stated his comments were not substantiating the claim, that seemed to have been left out of your post.
edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 12:26 AM
link   

TomLawless
reply to post by svetlana84
 


Yup.

That's definitely an American Weapon. M4, most likely.


To me it looks like the Stoner MK 11..A modified M16 for designated marksmen.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 01:21 AM
link   
They were speaking in English were they not?
If the audio file is authentic, as the Estonian Embassy admits it is, then we can simply listen to what they are saying and make our own judgments, no?
Why do we need any "spin" to hear and understand their words?

It certainly seems that this Dr. Olga told the minister some things that she assumed would be kept confidential. When her observations went out to the world, she reconsidered her position.
Or the Estonian minister made up the whole story of his talk with Dr. Olga.

And then at the end there's Ms. Ashton saying that the protestors must make "accommodations" for these people who have overthrown the legitimate government, the ones just described by the minister as being discredited by the doctor working with them because they have a lot of stinky baggage. So in Ms. Ashton's eyes, corruption can be over-looked so long as she can get enough of the corrupt to sit down and sign her agreements so the bankers can begin charging interest on the "help" she's going to send.
Plus the bit about how Dr. Olga's observations aren't those of a politician and must be considered in that light...oh yeah, can't have citizens who aren't politicians having any say in the government they're about to live under now can we?
May the Creator have mercy on all those affected by this conflict. But if this woman is actually saying what I heard, may all the curses of my Scottish grandmother rain down upon her and her ilk.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 02:01 AM
link   
reply to post by diggindirt
 


Normally I would agree with you.. In this case the discussion is not meant as it really happened. What Estonia is saying is their minister was told about the allegations and was speaking about them in that context. Not in the context that of confirming the allegations.

Should it be investigated? Absolutely.

Should what the Minister stated be taken out of context in an effort to confirm the allegation? Nope.

If we want, it could be argued that Russian GRU was on the ground in an effort to take advantage of the unrest. The effect from that could, and most likely would, result in both sides of the Ukrainian mess to blame the other, further fomenting distrust while pushing anti Kiev groups more towards Russia.
edit on 6-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 03:11 AM
link   

Xcathdra
No - because Estonia clarified the incident. An incident Russia / RT are trying to use to justify their actions.


Please give me a break, do you trust what they say in private when they think no one is listening.

OR do you trust the PR they say publicly

It is called critical thinking.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 03:14 AM
link   

Xcathdra
What Estonia is saying is their minister was told about the allegations and was speaking about them in that context. Not in the context that of confirming the allegations.


Notice how you are ignoring the fact that people can listen to the phone conversation themselves.

And you are ignoring the pictures of Opposition smuggling guns long before protestors were being shot.

If you are a shill, I hope you can at least make good money, and not chump change



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 03:16 AM
link   
Wheres the video of the snipers available..the one where you see their faces and the car...anyone know, i can't find it.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 04:07 AM
link   

AntiPrivateWestBankers

Xcathdra
What Estonia is saying is their minister was told about the allegations and was speaking about them in that context. Not in the context that of confirming the allegations.


Notice how you are ignoring the fact that people can listen to the phone conversation themselves.

And you are ignoring the pictures of Opposition smuggling guns long before protestors were being shot.

If you are a shill, I hope you can at least make good money, and not chump change




AntiPrivateWestBankers

Xcathdra
What Estonia is saying is their minister was told about the allegations and was speaking about them in that context. Not in the context that of confirming the allegations.


Notice how you are ignoring the fact that people can listen to the phone conversation themselves.

And you are ignoring the pictures of Opposition smuggling guns long before protestors were being shot.

If you are a shill, I hope you can at least make good money, and not chump change


Notice how the post states the call was authentic however the part about relaying what he had been told was omitted from RT's article?


OR do you trust the PR they say publicly

It is called critical thinking.

Or are you expecting me to just up and believe the photos posted about the sniper and the gun. You do understand Russia is running video footage of protests in Ukraine and stating they are from Crimea.

Is there any reason, when the info about the snipers was posted and links given that no one mentioned the Estonian response?

why?
edit on 6-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:24 AM
link   

ShadeWolf
Regarding the LiveLeak video: yeah, that's definitely an AR-pattern rifle. That said, ARs are fairly available in Europe, with several companies in central-eastern Europe manufacturing them, not to mention a number of M4s exported to Georgia. Wild guess, this one's probably a LUVO Arms model made in the Czech Republic (based on what I can see of the stock). In any case, it's not what you'd expect to see government forces in a former Com-Bloc country to be using. The Ukrainian army use Soviet-derivative weapons like AK-74s, not ARs.


This wasn't a strait combat job so these guys are not going to go down to the armory and check out a weapon. There is simply no way to tell anything from this weapon. Could be a personal preference whoever the guy worked for.

Has anyone established that both sides in this had snipers? How is anyone going to prove, as of yet, otherwise? And who were the victims? Were they protest leaders of just anybody? Were the cops that got hit of rank? That's important to a good measure because snipers are trained to look over a crowd, in this sort of situation, and target the movers, leaders, protesters with bull horns, people giving orders ect. Not that random targets don't have an effect but it would produce a picture if the victims could be shown to be such persons. And the same caliber of round being used on both means nothing in itself this early. That's one of those pieces of information that support the wider facts not a fact prover in itself.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 05:30 AM
link   
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Here is the video, if you ar payed for it, read the first page and "work" more carefully...

Sniper

"Activists of euromaidan searched car of deputy Pashinsky ("Пашинский", member of the "Fatherland"/"Батькивщина"), he showed that it was in his car and drove away.
People have asked what kind of maschina where you are going."

Pashinsky is a pro-western Timoshenko-emloyee.

I understand ukrainian a little, the translation seems to be OK.

Have a nice "demoncratic" day!

edit on 6-3-2014 by maghun because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:23 AM
link   
reply to post by maghun
 


The flaw in your argument is -


Deputy Pashinsky take out a sniper rifle from Maidan

"Activists of euromaidan searched car of deputy Pashinsky ("Пашинский", member of the "Fatherland"/"Батькивщина"), he showed that it was in his car and drove away.
People have asked what kind of maschina where you are going.
...
Car inspect by activists of euromaidan. (in Str "Institutskaja" / "Институтская" opposite of "Крепостной переулок"). Inspect twice, the first time checked documents, and next time found in the trunk (?) sniper rifle with a silencer. Deputy planted in the back seat, with the two sides sat down people deputies (?) or activists, I don `t know who." @ translation from video

I don `t know if I translated properly, guys from Ukraine translate it precisely, but there is clearly deputy smuggling of firearms maydan zone, it could be used for provocations. he leave maydan, and it probably mean that weapon already was used?

As i understand "Fatherland" is opposition to government. look bad.


www.youtube.com...

Read more at www.liveleak.com...



**WARNING - GRAPHIC The link is to the user account on live leak where this video was posted. The background photo he chose for his LiveLeak account is a dead "Chechnyan".**




and here- files.abovetopsecret.com...


**WARNING - GRAPHIC**


So we have a video posted to live leak.
The claim is a minister is trying to smuggle a sniper rifle.
The info for the video states he did not know what the translation was and asked for someone else to interpret.
He is Russian
Possibly Russian military / Russian special forces
Has a strong "issue" with "terrorists"
Has apparently killed people in Chechnya


Yup - no conflict / agenda there.
edit on 6-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 08:39 AM
link   
Am I correct that these 2 photos are Pachinsky?


Is Pachinsky on the side that protested against the Ukrainian government? If so and this Liveleak video is him with sniper rifle in the car near Maidan, that looks bad doesn't it?
Here are some other screen captures from the video of the 2 other men who got in the back seat. One of them was wearing a hard hat, ski goggles, face mask, and possibly a flack jacket. He looks like he doesn't want to be recognized in a photo or video.





posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:59 AM
link   

Xcathdra
reply to post by okamitengu
 




Estonia denies leaked call implicates Ukraine protesters in killings


TALLINN (Reuters) - Estonia denied on Wednesday that a leaked telephone call showed that its foreign minister had blamed opponents of Ukraine's deposed president for sniper killings during last month's unrest - as Russian media have suggested.

The Baltic state acknowledged that the audio recording of a conversation between Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton was authentic, but rejected the way some have interpreted it.



edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


Ok so yeah the Estonian government (a EU member, shall I say) has denied the sniper(s) was from the fascist opposition, yet they did not deny Paet's claim that it was not Yanukovitch's forces.

There's no other statement from Paet, yet, so all we know form his take is that the sniping was NOT done by Yanukovitch forces, which still denies the former claims that Yanukovitch was senselessly and mindlessly ordering protesters to be shot... as if he didn't care that much already about his popularity!

Pashinsky is a deputy of Fatherland, the leading nationalist opposition party in Euromaidan, that took over Kiev government. Which in itself contradicts your claim that he's some evil Russian on a personal war against "Chechen terrorists".

So Chechen terrorists are actually the good guys, now?

Furthermore... you keep claiming that RT and other Russian media are jumping on conclusions to promote their agenda. But what about Reuters and Yahoo News... they're more objective source that simply can't be serving political agendas!?

There's some fallacies in your logic.
edit on 6/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:08 AM
link   

edit on 6/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
32
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join