Connecticut halts plans to round up firearms after finding most cops in the state are on the list!

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posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 08:11 AM
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Wrabbit2000

Im2keul
reply to post by oblvion
 


I was always under the impression that once you purchased (legally) it was automatically registered to you.
Is this not accurate?



No.. That isn't correct. Federal law requires you submit to a background check to buy a firearm. That's it. End of story. the gun is yours...go and have fun with it. No long term records are supposed to be held from those checks. That's the extent of the Federal Government's involvement in an average gun sale between a licensed dealer and a private citizen. Nothing more... That's it. Simple, isn't it?

That is all there *IS* in states like mine, too...as our state isn't populated by busy body buffoons looking to legislate every possible angle of any human behavior they can imagine to write a new law about.

Most states, however, DO have registration systems...and so, it is to your specific state and not the Nation/Feds one must look.


However the ATF has been caught trying to do just that:



ATF using digital scanners. “ATF has been copying FFL Bound Books for years — with or without FFL permission. During annual compliance inspections in other states, FFL dealers have reported that ATF industry operations investigators (IOI) brought in digital cameras and photographed the entire dealer ‘Bound Book’ without permission of the FFL holder. Other dealers reported investigators brought in digital scanners and scanned portions of the Bound Book — line by line. Of course, the Bound Book contains the dealer’s full record of lawful firearm sales transaction records.”i



*FFL’s complain of illegal ATF activity. “The [ATF] is engaged in new illegal activity, this time in the state of Alaska. According to gun store owners in Anchorage, ATF agents are requiring that they submit what is called ‘4473 Forms’ going as far back as 2007…. The ATF has the authority to inspect or request a copy of the form if agents are conducting a criminal investigation.



“But nowhere does the law or the rules and regulations of the ATF permit the agency to require gun stores to simply turn over these records en mass as a matter of course. The gun stores in Anchorage are not being told that their records are being requested as part of a criminal investigation of any kind. The ATF has not specified certain forms from specific time frames as one would expect during such an investigation. The agency is telling the stores that it wants all of these records, in totality, going back to 2007.”ii



If the ATF is willing to engage in this activity — in full view of gun dealers — one can only imagine what is being done behind closed doors when the names of innocent gun buyers are phoned in for NICS checks. Can we truly be sure that every gun buyer’s name that is entered into the NICS computer system is completely deleted and scrubbed, without a backup being made … anywhere?



Past attempts at turning background checks into a national registry



In 1989, a Justice Department report stated that, “Any system that requires a criminal history record check prior to purchase of a firearm creates the potential for the automated tracking of individuals who seek to purchase firearms.”iii



Indeed, several attempts have been made — most notably during the Clinton administration — to register the names of gun buyers:



* Justice Department initiates registration (1994). The Justice Department gave a grant to the city of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University to create a sophisticated national gun registry using data compiled from states’ background check programs. This attempt at registration was subsequently defeated in the courts.iv



* More gun owner registration (1996). Computer software distributed by the Justice Department allowed police officials to easily (and unlawfully) register the names and addresses of gun buyers. This software — known as FIST — also kept information such as the type of gun purchased, the make, model and caliber, the date of purchase, etc.v This demonstrates how easily background checks can be used to register gun owners’ information.



* Federal Bureau of Investigation registers gun owners (1998). Despite prohibitions in federal law, the FBI announced that it would begin keeping gun buyers’ names for six months. FBI had originally wanted to keep the names for 18 months, but reduced the time period after groups like Gun Owners of America strongly challenged the legality of their actions. GOA submitted a formal protest to the FBI, calling their attempt at registration both “unlawful” and “unconstitutional.”vi Subsequently, Congress passed the “Smith amendment” in 1998 to mandate the “immediate destruction of all [gun buyer] information, in any form whatsoever.”






twg2a.wordpress.com... und-checks-atfs-illegal-copying-of-4473-forms/




posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 08:29 AM
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thisguyrighthere

Im2keul
reply to post by oblvion
 


I was always under the impression that once you purchased (legally) it was automatically registered to you.
Is this not accurate?



Generally, no, that is not accurate. Some states have different laws requiring registration but as a nation federal level registration doesnt exist (on record anyway) and most of the 50 state don't have state level registries.

For a long time CT had a state level handgun registry. Your handgun would be registered at point of sale whether or not the sale was private or through a dealer.

CT had no long gun registry until this asinine post-Newtown brain farting. This registry was temporarily opened. Any prohibited firearms that were not registered by the deadline are now illegal as far as the state is concerned.

Some estimates show compliance levels as low as 10-15% meaning 85-90% of the prohibited firearms and their owners in the state are now felons.

The state has yet to enforce their new law and is floundering about trying to delay the inevitable because if the state doesnt act then what's the point of the law that was so important it had to be rushed through in the dead of night without a thought or care?

Surely the state will not permit these felonious scofflaws to run free.



Thank you and Wrabbit for clearing that up for me.


Even though I no longer own any guns, I have purchased before (legally), and never "registered"



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by nighthawk1954
 


When people like this start something that could very well have escalated into something disastrous without even bothering to research it, that's what is really scary.

People like this are very dangerous and all under the guise of protecting the people. They should be removed now with recall movements. If these people can come together enough to possibly die for what they believe in then a recall movement should be easy.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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So violating our constitutional rights wasn't a problem at all, until they found a few pigs on the list. I can see clearly now.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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Wrabbit2000

UnBreakable

ohioriver
reply to post by nighthawk1954
 


I wonder how many people will just keep posting as if it were real. Should leave it up just to see.


Keep it going for entertainment purposes. People will believe only what they want to believe.


Hmmm.. I caught the bogus nature of the source.


This site is a satire of the current state of Law Enforcement, Fire Fighting and Emergency Medical work. Stories posted here are not real and you should not assume them to have any basis in any real fact. More ...


However...... Cops as leading the gun owners by number and variety in CT is a no brainer and I'm sure, a general fact of life there as much as it is everywhere else. That's my cop's kid upbringing again for saying cops LOVE guns..and New York found this same problem with their magazine limits. Cops were included and Cops went ballistic....

So is it false that CT is still going full tilt in confiscation? I get the source is goofy..but even a broken clock is right twice a day..and the story seems common sense much more than anything to be subjectively right or wrong?


What they said on Vicevitch this morning is the following and it goes back to the conversation a few weeks ago. We have a governor's election coming up this fall, Dannel Malloy wants desperately to be reelected but he's got a string of failures and bad calls haunting him, this bill being one of them. Foley, the closest thing there is to opposition to him (and I would vote for Foley he's got some great ideas) has vowed to remove this registry.

The State Legislature is discussing rewording the statute so that it makes a bit more sense, but you know how tat goes, but in the end, they all admit the same thing, it would be impossible to enforce this new law, as a lot of these sales were done either out of state or under old Federal rules, or guns were handed down, etc etc..

They can yap all they want about enforcement, it was said, but in the end, it's nothing but a "look we did SOMETHING" law.

This is why I'm so upset with everyone charging ahead full steam with how awful this is, it's not really, it will most likely be repealed SOONISH and life will go on...



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


You know what burns my buns on this the most? Down right well done, I must say.... It's that this seemed the obvious course it'd go from the start. If one looks back, I and others said as much when it first came. Statewide enforcement is absurd and impossible. CT doesn't have enough cops if every last one of them were to dedicate themselves to only this task. Still... If it's not repealed (and..err...you've seen the blue laws for how often that happens..eh?) Then we have a bigger problem.

Bigger problem? Yup... bigger...

If not repealed and not widely enforced, this will fade quietly into obscurity....for now. Later, when there is some need or cause, this law will be the 'go-to' tool for a quick warrant or warrantless search where needed, when someone was known to have been an uncooperative gun owner. It's like a list for their back pocket of who they can keep a hold card for, any time in the future. The citizens refusing to cooperate now may never know when or why that door kick comes some day...but this could be the law used as the tool to kick with.


I'm with some others in saying I wish they did enforce it 100% and arrest everyone qualified for it. The outrage would end this nonsense within a week.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:41 AM
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vkey08

This is why I'm so upset with everyone charging ahead full steam with how awful this is, it's not really, it will most likely be repealed SOONISH and life will go on...


And all the sold off guns or the ones that were made inoperable will magically return home fine and dandy as if nothing ever happened.

And, god forbid, anyone who may have faced legal action will be exonerated and all fees reimbursed.

And anyone who left the state will be given their home, job and lives back.

The damage is done. The state cant just pass laws like this as though they are simply whimsical fancies without consequences.

This is the biggest reason life in America is sucking and going to suck a lot more. Legislators and the morons who elect them treat law like it's some harmless game pieces to be played with. They don't ever stop to consider the real lives, real people who are directly affected by their pandering nonsense.

Recall alcohol prohibition. Unenforceable, pointless pandering by a bunch of fools looking to "do something."

How many lives did that little stunt ruin? How many dead cops stacked up? How many cells were filled?

These are the real costs. People who harmed no one are going to go to prison. People who harmed no one are going see guns pointed at them and the police who are foolish enough to enforce this will end up like so many Prohibition era police.

Imagine being the last widow of Prohibition. The last widow of a pointless war that never had to be fought and didnt accomplish anything.

Legislators and their constituents need to stop their train of chaos and think once in a while.

Maybe watch some old footage of bulldozers pushing heaps of corpses into pits and ask "what action or cause is worth this reality" because this is reality. Not some sim-world where we can create felons with the stroke of a pen and then say "sorry, just kidding" a year or two down the road without suffering any consequences.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


With the upcoming elections, there is no way it won't be repealed, there's too much outrage that either:

A) It didn't go far enough for some people
B) It went too far

there has been no middle ground at all in the issue, and forgetting for a moment that Connecticut DOES still have some of the most lenient gun laws (even with this bill) in the nation, our state is in trouble, and we just don't' need this distraction.

I cannot stress hard enough how much this state is still recovering from 2011-2012, and I don't mean Sandy Hook that was just yet another nail being driven in, I'm speaking of Irene, Alfred, Sandy and then to top it all off the 2013 Feb Blizzard. 4 natural disasters in a short time period, a lot of infrastructure damage that while they were quick to patch (some could argue that after two or so weeks in the dark) they have not fully repaired yet, and it's not going to take much to plunge this state back into an extended darkness, we're already seeing grid failures here from the extreme extended cold wreaking havoc with the patch job CL&P did back in '11.

Add to that the state's healthcare crisis. Not enough doctors to treat the medicaid expansion, and too many patients. It's causing anyone with less than the "gold plan" to be rejected for even primary care.. it's tough.

Gun control, is like at the bottom of our list in state, unless you're some fringe group out in the western hills that only think about gun control and hate the government at all costs.. Most regular people here, have said to repeal the law, but we have more important things to work on as well..



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


not one case of anyone being arrested under this law yet, so you're jumping the gun (pun intended) so no one would have to be exonerated

not one case of the state making these weapons inoperable, if someone did that themselves, that's their stupidity.

Anyone who left the state without listening to the debate that's gone on about this was their own stupidity, It's a bad law, they all know it, they are working on repealing it.

Heaven forbid anyone be held accountable for their own actions, it's all the government's fault, unless of course it's the government's fault in which case let's crucify them. Seriously?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


More reasons why law is not a game.

Can a person really be blamed for taking seriously a law that was enacted?

If we're going to stop taking laws at face value that's fine by me. Lot's of other folks however assume that when a government makes something illegal that government will come and enforce said law eventually.

Passing laws that affect the lives of millions of people just to repeal them later is sick and doesnt ever take into consideration the lives affected in the interim.

If we're going to live this way then it should be magnitudes more difficult for laws to be passed.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Millions? There aren't that many guns in this entire state...

Seriously they've been talking repal on this thing since the day after Malloy signed it, if people had just waited and watched and gotten involved in the CIVIL process that goes on no one would have done anything to their guns or left the state..

I think my State Rep (the Dep Speaker of the CT House who did NOT vote for this bill said it best) "We (the legislative body) is made up of human beings, we are prone to the same mistakes and emotional responses as anyone else, if we can identify and rectify those mistakes all the better for the State (of Connecticut)"

Thank about that for one moment, and then tell me anyone who wasn't listening to that statement (which was made about THIS BILL BY A DEMOCRAT) would have thought this law was going to go anywhere.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


But it did go somewhere. It became law!

I find it quite remarkable that you can see a law on the books, the cops and the prisons charged with enforcing that law, and just brush it off like it doesnt exist.

If it is to be repealed and everyone and his uncle believes this then why doesnt the state release a statement regarding this?

As far as the state is concerned it wants the residents to believe this law is in full force otherwise a statement would be released to the contrary.

You may be comfortable just ignoring laws but most people aren't. Most people don't want to get involved with arrests, search warrants, lawyer fees, posting bond or wasting away in a cell for however many years.

The law is on the books in CT and nobody in CT with any real authority is telling people to relax or promising it will go unenforced.

People have lives to live and can't spend months or years in limbo not knowing if the hammer is going to come down on them or not always looking over their shoulder and cringing when a cop pulls out in traffic behind them.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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Merlynn
reply to post by nighthawk1954
 


So the intern is the police chief's kid, not surprised. Wonder how he got that?

Why do they even need a gun registration if they already know who has guns? They have a list of people who haven't complied.




You have hit it on the head, they threaten to come pick them up and how do they know where to go? They already have a list, I didn't think this was legal. Anyway what's the point of registration if they already know who has the guns?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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I purchased a Stoger semi automatic shotgun that holds 4 rounds for home defence and trap shooting couple of years ago from a private gun dealer it was not reported to the state. But if I need to buy ammo in CT. I have to pay $35 for a permit!





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