A second date would be nice.

reply to post by dave_welch

I too think you are talking too much each date with the "getting to know each other" stuff. You should be focusing on HER, and quit talking about you, what you do, where you go, what you watch etc.

And I think whaever it is youre doing wrong, you should realize what that is exactly....because you KEEP doing it!

reply to post by schuyler


What's wrong with the way I dress? Would you rather I wore skinny jeans and a shirt 3 sizes too small? As far as wearing a suit and tie, who does that on a date? That's what you wear to the office or some other such formal place. I cook hamburgers for a living, there's no need to lie about it.

As far as the facial hair, I promise I look worse without it, I don't have a chin. Even when I weighed 190 and was fairly chiseled, my face still looked like the face of a fat guy.

The glasses are just a my spares as my usual ones got too scratched up to wear.

reply to post by dave_welch


You and I are quite similar. I had given up hope on a long-term relationship. And somehow that is what worked for me. My last gf (we only broke up because I was an idiot) was with me for 7 years. We started as friends (so don't believe that crap about some fictional "friend zone." That's an excuse people use.), and after a while we began dating. I am far from handsome, pretty awkward, speak before I think, etc. In spite of all that my ex said what she saw in me was the person I was, not the dummy I was trying to be.

If you want my advice, accept the "just friends." Hang out with the girl again if she is willing. Don't push her, but don't close your mind to the possibility of more. At this point could it really hurt?

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Believe me, I don't talk about myself any more than is necessary. On this most recent date, most of the night was spent talking about the different countries we've visited (Navy service for me, studying abroad for her).

reply to post by Akragon


Is there any truth in astrology? Being a Pisces, I should be be over affectionate and self centered, I may be a bit to affectionate but I'm far from self centered.

As far as that goes, what sign is a good mach for a pisces?

nugget1
Who knows? Maybe by becoming friends ,and getting to know each other better, she will want to move on to more than just friends.

Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. If it does for you then you are extremely lucky. Once a woman sees you as just a friend, it will take nothing short of a miracle to change her mind.

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


Please don't think I'm dismissing what you said, but...

Your GF probably had romantic feelings for you while you were still friends. Believe me, there is nothing fictional about the "friend zone" as ridiculous as it sounds.

Once a woman starts seeing you as "just a friend" you may as well be her brother. I've been down that road way too many times with the same results every time.

dave_welch
reply to post by Akragon

 

Is there any truth in astrology? Being a Pisces, I should be be over affectionate and self centered, I may be a bit to affectionate but I'm far from self centered.

As far as that goes, what sign is a good mach for a pisces?

There is some truth in astrology... but its mostly for fun. When it comes to dating reading about your date's astrological sign is handy for sure... Like I said previously it will give you a decent preview of what to expect in her personality...

Not to mention the fact that it might give you something to talk about that could be intriguing to her

Don't take anything you read about your sign to heart... not all of them are correct... but some can be dead on...

All you have to do is search "dating sign compatibility" and you'll come up with a bunch of sites that will tell you all you need to know about which sign is good for you...

reply to post by InvisibleOwl


Dave is correct. There is nothing fictional about the zone. If a girl ever decides to throw herself into the arms of a friend it's only because of one reason
1. She's drunk

Girls do-not-want to sleep with friends unless she has an interest, but he's unavailable do to circumstances. Guys? well, that's another thread.

reply to post by dave_welch


Here, maybe this will help you get started
www.pickupguide.com...

reply to post by FlySolo


I guess the first female friend was drunk for year and the second was drunk for seven years? Each girl knew my feelings, and each rejected me several times. And each saw the guy I am and decided to give me a chance. And neither were drunk at that point

I used to believe in "the zone" and then I realized (by accident or sheer dumb luck) that women actually want their partner to be their friend. That said, I was not the kind of friend who was available for them to cry over other men, and I actually made myself unavailable at times. I am not saying that I am a genius with women; in fact I am completely the opposite. I am simply sharing what happened to me ... twice. I'd be married to the second today if I had not taken her for granted. The silly things we do when we are young.

That said, both women were from different cultures than mine. I suppose culture plays a role in interactions between men and women.

reply to post by dave_welch


I was going to write a longer post to you, but I did that to the poster above. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, only that my last two girlfriends (and the only real ones I had looking back on things) were close friends first. Feelings developed over time (though I was also kinda persistent in my own feelings).

I noticed you edited your reply to the poster commenting on your appearance in your photo. Take this as advice from just some dummy on the internet, but you should not have to explain your looks and/or style to anyone.

dave_welch
reply to post by schuyler

 

What's wrong with the way I dress? Would you rather I wore skinny jeans and a shirt 3 sizes too small? As far as wearing a suit and tie, who does that on a date? That's what you wear to the office or some other such formal place. I cook hamburgers for a living, there's no need to lie about it.

As far as the facial hair, I promise I look worse without it, I don't have a chin. Even when I weighed 190 and was fairly chiseled, my face still looked like the face of a fat guy.

The glasses are just a my spares as my usual ones got too scratched up to wear.

Buddy, you're being defensive. Pay attention to what I said--or not--your choice, but if you really do dress that way, then I submit we're beginning to get the picture. Nobody, including me, suggested you wear skinny jeans and a shirt three sizes too small. Can you point to where anyone did? And as far as cooking hamburgers for a living, it's an honorable profession. I did it for awhile, too, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

If you came on here with a "woe is me" thread expecting everyone to tell you how good you really are, you probably came to the wrong place. Our job is not to be your co-dependent, but to call it like it is. Getting defensive like you have above shows me you're not listening.

But good luck and I wish you well.

schuyler

dave_welch
reply to post by schuyler

 

What's wrong with the way I dress? Would you rather I wore skinny jeans and a shirt 3 sizes too small? As far as wearing a suit and tie, who does that on a date? That's what you wear to the office or some other such formal place. I cook hamburgers for a living, there's no need to lie about it.

As far as the facial hair, I promise I look worse without it, I don't have a chin. Even when I weighed 190 and was fairly chiseled, my face still looked like the face of a fat guy.

The glasses are just a my spares as my usual ones got too scratched up to wear.

Buddy, you're being defensive. Pay attention to what I said--or not--your choice, but if you really do dress that way, then I submit we're beginning to get the picture. Nobody, including me, suggested you wear skinny jeans and a shirt three sizes too small. Can you point to where anyone did? And as far as cooking hamburgers for a living, it's an honorable profession. I did it for awhile, too, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.

If you came on here with a "woe is me" thread expecting everyone to tell you how good you really are, you probably came to the wrong place. Our job is not to be your co-dependent, but to call it like it is. Getting defensive like you have above shows me you're not listening.

But good luck and I wish you well.

I'm sorry if that's how it came out. That's not what I intended. Most people say something like "dress more modern". I was just trying to stop that before it happens.

reply to post by schuyler


How you dress is woman specific. It all depends on what genre of female you're going for. If you come from a small town then dress accordingly. If you like pubs, then don't go dressed for something more refined.

@ invisible owl
When 'crash' dating like the OP mentioned ie: online, there's no room for friends. One needs to make their intentions very clear when online dating. If a woman suggests friends, then I say, "thanks, but I've got some already" and never message her again. And yes, cultures do make a difference. With online dating, you've only got about 3 minutes to make an impression. If that.

reply to post by dave_welch


You said my daughters first date sounds like you.

Just an FYI

Here is what he did that made us decide a 2nd date was worth a try:

1. The first date was in public, in the middle of the day, it was also basically no cost and preplanned to be kinda short (1-2 hours). He did not try to pick her up in his car. He asked to meet in a very public place. He didn't try to impress her by spending a lot of money. The most he could have spent would have been a roving food cart.


2. He was nice and polite (but not overly polite) and his online profile - what he said about himself was all 100% true.
He had pictures of himself with his parents and brother online, as well as pictures with guy friends. Let her know he had
a normal life. He also listed his job online and did not exaggerate about the salary range. It was low, but he had a starter job that matched his degree and before they were married got a good paying job in his field.

3. The second date he suggested was also in public, again they each drove to the date. It was again low cost (a movie in a park). When she called me to ask if she should try again with him, we also decided that the second date sounded harmless enough and like fun. Plus since his profile was accurate he seemed to be an honest guy.

dave_welch


I'm sorry if that's how it came out. That's not what I intended. Most people say something like "dress more modern". I was just trying to stop that before it happens.

If that is your 'normal' tetchy behaviour .... It's not hard to see that it could be at

least 50% of your problem?


It was you who solicited for advice from ATS members and you have been given a vast

variety of possibilities and some good advice, you could at least consider these

opinions and I'm sure you can take away *something* from all of that advice.


There could be (if you are open to it) some measure of truth in all the advice you

have been given, sometimes one can be too close to a problem to see the answer!

reply to post by eletheia


And where did you get that I was ignoring all this advice.

I just think that clothes are a rather superficial thing to judge someone by. If a person will not even give another person the benefit of the doubt because they don't like that person's clothes, wouldn't that be rather shallow?

I could understand if I had 37 facial piercings and dressed like I was homeless or had purple hair or somthing. But I don't. I dress how I like to dress, but there's nothing unusual or out of the ordinary about it.

FlySolo
reply to post by schuyler

 

How you dress is woman specific. It all depends on what genre of female you're going for. If you come from a small town then dress accordingly. If you like pubs, then don't go dressed for something more refined.

@ invisible owl
When 'crash' dating like the OP mentioned ie: online, there's no room for friends. One needs to make their intentions very clear when online dating. If a woman suggests friends, then I say, "thanks, but I've got some already" and never message her again. And yes, cultures do make a difference. With online dating, you've only got about 3 minutes to make an impression. If that.

Thank you for understanding my point.

FlySolo
reply to post by schuyler

 

How you dress is woman specific. It all depends on what genre of female you're going for. If you come from a small town then dress accordingly. If you like pubs, then don't go dressed for something more refined.

I absolutely agree with you, but we have no specific information to go on. If he'd said, "I met this cowgirl who owns a farm" no one would ever suggest wearing a suit. In the absence of those specifics we have no choice but to be more generic. I'm not trying to be snooty here. My idea of dressing up is my new cowboy boots that aren't scuffed, clean jeans that are still blue instead of faded, and maybe a "nice" shirt that I don't use for working on cars and still has all its buttons. You can be classy no matter what class you are, but ignoring the issue just brings you grief.

The point being that you need to be clean and neat within your own context. For me Oxfords would make me uncomfortable, but for someone else, they might be just the ticket. The key here is to ELIMINATE BARRIERS so that something like clothes or dirty fingernails or whatever does not become an issue.