reply to post by JadeStar
Fascinating, fascinating stuff JS. If only all posts on ATS were as well written and well presented as this. Duly awarded a S&F.
You did a great job of presenting the facts to the likes of me.
Can I ask a question about the apparent lack of 'gas giants' in the ZT system?
Would this not make any earth like planets more susceptible to comet and asteroid impacts with no larger planets mopping up?
Thanks again for a wonderful thread MMedit on 6/3/14 by mirageman because: (no reason given)
I now see that the triple alpha process involving helium and beryllium is not applicable to stars like Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli, still on the main sequence. The deficiency of beryllium appears to have nothing to do with any supposed astro-engineering on those stars.
I do still maintain that the very gradual brightening of a main sequence star appears likely to make formerly habitable planets, unlivable, long before their star leaves the main sequence. Some technological means of rejuvenating a star, and preventing its further brightening beyond a certain point would seem to be very desirable, if it could me managed.
The contradictory age indicators in the stars Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli seem to hint at such a rejuvenation. Indeed, given the expected evolutionary track of a G type star, it seems essential in such stars with a reputed age of 8 billion years, if they have inhabited planets that are to remain inhabited.edit on 5-3-2014 by Ross 54 because: edited for clarity
well on the bright side even some of us primitive earthlings are thinking about how stellar scale engineering could work. like lots and lots and lots (etc) of micro scale wormholes could be used to diffuse stuff (like fresh hydrogen from molecular clouds) not only into stars but into the cores of tectonically and magnetically dead worlds. you could use them to diffuse thorium and uranium in a safe way into the core and mantle to melt the mantle and get a dead world jump started.
It isn't essential at this point that we understand the details of the process of stellar rejuvenation. Looking for the possible results of it in certain stars is quite challenging it itself, and perhaps quite illuminating.
We have good support for the advanced age of the Zeta Reticuli stars. Besides their association with a moving group of 8 billion year old stars, we have their slow rotation. Stars slow their rotation as they age, due to tidal and magnetic braking. The average rotation speed of G class stars is ~ 12 kilometers per second. That of the Sun, a little over 7. Those of the ZR twin stars are under 2 km/sec. They're pretty obviously quite old, and really slowing down.
We also have their youthful traits, which I mentioned above, to deal with. We will have to attend to all the data, contradictory though it is, in order to resolve this paradox.
I couldn't find another good explanation for the solid, yet contradictory age indications, hence my 'thinking outside the box' suggestion about astroengineering. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to suppose that a couple of sun-like stars that are probably three billion years older than our own could play host to a remarkably advanced and powerful civilization.
We already engineer the flow of some of our largest rivers to suit our ends. Given millions of years to learn how, why shouldn't it be possible to control a star?edit on 6-3-2014 by Ross 54 because: Added information
very. i mean we haven't thought of everything even in the realm of wild speculation and fantasy. you could even have tech to make artificial stars out of jupiter class and higher planets by putting ultra-dense quasi matter into it to increase gravity, pressure and temperature or at least a equatorial band of fusion around them. you could posit worm hole diffusion techniques a sufficiently advanced civilization might be able to do something very like "Fiat Lux!" pulling virtual stuff into reality from the vacuum. or moving stars and planets about at will. or cannibalizing stars of unburnt hydrogen.
for a few illustrations of some of these wild fantastical ideas look at www.orionsarm.com...
The website of the Armagh planetarium, associated with the Armagh Observatory is confident enough to feature the observation that new data puts the age of the ZR stars at 1.5 to 3 billion years. This same data is presumably the basis of the same age, as given at the Wikipedia site.
It seems worth noting that it is consistently internally derived features of the ZR stars, such as lower than expected luminosity, or chromospheric activity that prompt these low age figures.
Ages derived from the motions of the stars just as consistently give ages in the range of 6 to 8 billion years. There are at least three independent lines of evidence of this latter sort: 1.) Membership in the Zeta Herculis moving group of stars, which have an average age in the range of 6 to 8 billion years. 2.) Conspicuously slow stelar rotation, suggesting a very long period of slowing. 3.) Scientist Jeffery Kretsch points out the high velocity of the ZR stars, with respect to the galactic plane, accompanied by a high degree of eccentricity of their orbits around the center of the galaxy. This confers 'Disk Population II' status on them, again supplying an age of 6 to 8 billion years.
Why should motional factors consistently point to a much older age than ones derived from stellar physics? It seems that something has interfered, either with various independent motions of the ZR stars as diverse as their rotations and course through the galaxy, or with their internal physical processes.
www.nicap.org...edit on 8-3-2014 by Ross 54 because: added linkedit on 8-3-2014 by Ross 54 because: added link
The paper, linked below, discusses the range of possibilities of planets in the ZR star system, based on the asymmetry of the debris disk. What I found especially interesting was a series of infrared images of this disk. These show the disk with an East-south-east by West-north-west elongation. This corresponds to about 113 degrees from North.
The minimum angle from the the direction of proper motion of the star appears , then, to be about 49 degrees. This seems sufficient to to rule out interaction with the interstellar medium as the cause of the disk asymmetry. One or more planets orbiting Zeta 2 Reticuli seems much more likely.
arxiv.org...edit on 11-3-2014 by Ross 54 because: improved paragraph structure
I still can't get over the fact that someone called LordNosferatu discovered a planet... Yeah, no i think i should just leave now before I lose it for good... I'm really losing it now...I'm doing the "yeah, no" thing. Before you know it I'll be doing the "No, yeah" thing, which is a little more rare, but, it happens.
By the way, I know You were the one who was there taking the photo and seeing with your own eyes and all, but I'd just like to take this opportunity to explain to you that I believe what you really took a photo of is not the zeta reticuli system, or any star system at all.
No, I think that what is in that image is a UFO. An alien one with living occupants inside. Well, one of those lights is a UFO, the other is actually just a lensflare, in my opinion. Prove to me that they are really stars and not alien flown craft. Your photo is too blurry how can you say for sure what that is. I say flying saucer. With accompanying lens flare. And I'm still more reasonable than the average skeptic because I used "my opinion" where applicable.
But seriously, I can't believe you come to ATS with this remarkable story and bring such flimsy evidence!? Sheesh... prepare to get thrown into the Lions pit!
Thanks for sharing the Orion's Arm site. Interesting ideas about making Jovian planets into short-term stars. As I recall, something like this was done to Jupiter in one of the sequels to '2001 A Space Odyssey'.
I see that the idea of prolonging the life of an existing star is called 'stellar husbandry' there. Mixing of outer stellar layers back into core is referred to without going into detail, apparently.
Sound crazy? Interestingly, this already happens in our Universe. For red dwarf stars with less than 35% the mass of the sun, their convective zones connect directly to the core of the star. This is why these stars can last for hundreds of billions and even trillions of years. They will efficiently use up all the hydrogen in the entire star thanks to the mixing of the convective zone. If we could create a method to break through the radiative zone and get that fresh hydrogen into the core of the sun, we could keep basking in its golden tanning rays for well past its current expiration date.