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Who are you with no ego and ambition, with no desire?

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posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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onequestion
Who are when you have no desire, when you reach a point where you realize what ambition really is? What do you then become?

Can any of you explain yourself without the lexicon you use to explain your identity?

Forget what you do and what your goals are, how do you then explain yourself?

Can anyone honestly answer this question?
edit on 3/5/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)


Without ego you are selfless, the ego is the "I" in the equation, it's the means of separating ones self from the "natural oneness" of the Universe. Therefore to answer your question, by losing your ego you lose the notion that you are separate from everything that your senses interact with in "Reality" which causes you to consciously act in ways that only benefit All. An ego-driven grain of sand would think of himself as one grain among many, an ego-less grain would think of himself as the entire beach.

To put it plain and simple, without ego what you'd normally do for yourself you'd do for everyone with no desire of self-gratification.




posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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Lysergic

sn0rch

Lysergic
reply to post by onequestion
 



I am the universe experiencing itself.




What is the universe?

Why does it care about itself?

And what will it do when it realises that it's finite?


If we weren't observing the universe it wouldn't exist, vice versa.


I think the realizing something is for us.


Nonsense, that stopped being the case so long ago no one can remember.

The thought that we are observing the universe is laughable, we are not.

Someone IS observing, but only to cause changes that make it easier for it to become more limitless.

Recreating "GOD" is so much harder than it thought, but it has planet EARTH working hard to iron things out.

Beings from outside of the Universe are now interested, but observing for them, does not change anything...big shocks coming for the avatar minded, errr, they already happened they just lost the ability to OBSERVE.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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PapagiorgioCZ
I´ve got a few questions for you. Don´t get me wrong. I´m pretty motivation free too so...


No problem.
But note that I said right away this was a description of a state I was in as a child.



-How did you manage to live a common daily life (like apply for a job)?

I did not apply for a job, I was a child. I did, however, steal food when hungry. This was done in such an instinctive way I hadn't even much conscious awareness that I had done so. It was like my body on autopilot.



-How were you able to become pregnant? Someone just came and took you like you lived in China or India?

A man who has some deep problems with misogyny took me as a mate. I would analyze now that he enjoyed the experience of power over a woman, as I was submissive and did what I was told, with no objection. I also did not defend against insults and abuse.



-How were you able to rise a child (chldren learn by mimicking parents so is it an empty vessel like you or rather like it´s father)?


I wrote that this state changed at having a child. The father was gone by the end of the pregnancy. I started raising him through acknowledging the survival needs and my responsibility to fulfil them (to provide shelter, food, etc.). As he grew and I developed more, more needs were recognized and attended to by me. He has lots of problems now, psychologically, which my two children which came later do not. I believe this stems from my earlier state of disassociation.



-Can it be some kind of neurological, psychological, hormonal disorder? Are you capable of feeling compasion (psychopaths don´t)
Can you be autistic?


It certainly could have been . It is very possible I was borderline, repeated psychological testing only came up once with a result of "possible Borderline Personality", though they were done at 14, so were not considered reliable (as most teens will come up with a high score in that area). PTSD (which was not recognized at that time) is a very possible explanation also.
We've looked into autism, but it does not seem so, as extreme empathy is part of my problem, the opposite of autism.
I feel emotions of others, and compassion. Yet at that time, the feelings did not give rise to any desire or motivation.

This is how I think Stockholm syndrome must work too. When you are say, being abused, but you feel both your own emotions, PLUS those of your abuser, the two extreme opposites sort of "neutralize" the emotions. You don't identify with one or the other as "self" or your own. Emotions are. They just are. They aren't anyones. They happen, they change, they arise and fall away, they are often opposing and simultaneous.... so physical action of any sort is sort of unecessary.
Again, though, I may be able to access this same state, I am now also capable of differenciating and identifying with emotions or thoughts, and choosing goals and action.




-Don´t you think that it is rather normal for a woman than for a man to feel this way?


Not really... this is an extreme state of passiveness. On the other hand, I will say that more females tend to fall into passivity of various sorts than do males. Being less physically powerful, it is normal. BUT, I think normal females also find ways of developing passive aggressivity as well- which requires more thought and identification with emotions.

edit on 5-3-2014 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


I AM that I AM.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by oktopus
 


But the mind is faith and the body is the works... trust me its a strange feeling the soul is in its seat in the gland...



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by sootblack
 


You're what?



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 12:23 PM
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Tryptych
reply to post by dominicus
 


I didn't even need to read your post because I knew what you're going to say


When you turn off your internal dialogue and just start to receive with a a quiet mind, miracles REALLY start to happen. When you're not driven by cynicism, assumptions and prejudice you can really start to create. Not an easy thing to do in the modern society, but it's there and always will be. It's actually the most productive and free state possible.

There you can also find the happiness you've been searching for (if you deserve it because your actions)

What am I? Energy.



Completely resting in a depth of Synchronicity!!!!



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


"I am you"

and one higher it is simply

"I am"

and one higher

"We"

and one higher

"..."




When you reach that stage there is no need to explain who you are, because you just KNOW, more than youve ever known anything before, deeper than anything you have ever known, you know it so deeply that to even call it into question actually makes you burst out laughing



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


Thanks. Good objective answers.

I was a bit afraid of not being polite enough.
I was into buddhism, yoga etc for about a decade or two trying to force enlightenment by cutting off/killing ego and also the vital.
There was a time I would add a few eastern book-wisdom sayings like many others. You seem to know that its not good enough to spill the cup without filling it with good stuff.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ
 


Well, something i realized was that if your heart is not full of selfless love and infinite bliss, then you have not acheived the goal. If you have achieved true egolessness then the ability to say "Wait a minute >I< have killed >MY< ego, and >I< now feel empty and dead" would be completely gone, for that is still conidering your own identity, fate and position as being seperate from the rest of existence, if you're thinking of I me and mine then your ego is not dead.


This is the danger with buddhism, since it almost rejects the idea of God and the soul, then there can be no object of faith and devotion, it was only through faith and love of Lord Sri Krishna that I surmised that that empty stage of no ambition, no feeling, no "ego" , no "vitality" as you put it, was not the end goal, that I had missed something and had to keep working, keep seeking. Again, it is the moment your entire being becomes infused with love and happiness that you have achieved true Illumination. And again, it was only through my firm faith in the Justice of Lord Krishna that I had to conclude that I had done something wrong on the path rather than that his path was flawed and that he wanted me to become an empty husk.

Whereas in buddhism it is very easy to simply say, when you reach that stage "Well I have followed all the instructions, kill the ego, kill ambition (actually it is SELFISH ambition) and here >I< am, empty, so therefore buddhism must be wrong, and I will return to a life of materialism and self interest to seek happiness."



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 05:38 AM
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I am the observer, I am the observee and I am also the act of observing. I am everything and nothing.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


The ego is SELF-interest, SELF-ambition, based on the illusion of the self being a limited identity of 1 body, 1 mind, 1 set of likes, 1 set of dislikes, and several 'ambitions' to change the position of 'self' in order to move the life into a place where none of the dislikes are experienced, and all of the likes are experienced.

When you reach a state of ego-lessness, it is when you experience the fact that the corporeal phenomena you call "I" "Me" and "Mine" is actually in constant movement, at LEAST insofar as the immediate body and mind go, when you realize that nothing is static then you see that trying to hold on to one piece of that constant flux as "I" or "mine" is simply foolish, there is no static I me and mine, all is change, even the "me" that began writing this post is not the same "me" that will click the reply button, the quarks that make up the atoms that make up my body and mind will have flashed in and out of existence a trillion times in the 10 minutes it takes me to write this. Then comes this question "What remains still then?" and "How am i able to observe these things, it seems that whatever faculty that allows me to observe the constant flux and flow of mind and matter MUST remain static otherwise how would it be possible to observe the fact of constant change?" And that is when you realize that attention, consciousness, awareness, THAT is what remains the same, THAT is all that remains static (With sustained effort in concentrative meditation, that is) and furthermore you surmise that therefore the faculty of sustained attention, or in earlier stages of meditation, that faculty of being able to bring a wandering attention back to the same point over and over, is higher in nature than both body and mind, only when diluted with the identification with body and mind does it become the individual, seperate identity, then it becomes inseperable from the psychosomatic phenomena (except by meditation) and since mind and matter are in constant flux, then the attention becomes scattered and fragmented, and people find it hard to focus on any one thing for a given amount of time. Often you find the children at school who are candidates for ADHD and such "mental disorders" have a slightly larger idea of themselves as 'the class clown' or the 'cool guy' or whatever, and find it incredibly hard to concentrate, this is because of their identification with a constantly changing phenomena, and therefore the attention which follows it is also contantly changing.

Now, once all these things are experienced in meditation, gradually the sense of identification with mind and matter is dissolved, and with it the seperate ego is dissolved. At that stage only attention or consciousness remains, and the experience of Nirvana, Samadhi, or God/Christ/Krishna-consciousness happens, where it is perceived that there is only a single consciousness and the multiplicity of individual consciousnesses is an illusion created by identification with the impermanent electro-chemical phenomena (mind-matter) the "I" becomes fully merged, united, dissolved in that unitary consciousness which is the source of all things. When you come down from that and back into life there is a change in how things are perceived in the world of duality, that is, it is no longer perceived to be a world of duality, but a unitary world, and ambition is ambition on behalf of all things, desire is desire on behalf of all things, there is still interest, still ambition, still even (and i know this is a hotbutton word in spiritual circles) desire, but it is selfLESS-interest selfLESS-ambition selfLESS desire, you work entirely for the good of others, everything you do is for the sake of others, and in a way it is still selfish, because you know that you ARE those whom you serve, and so you are still working for the good of yourself, only that you have discovered your TRUE self (I am THAT I am, not this seperate I am, but that unitary I am. A well known part of the bible) This self was called the atman by the ancient Transcendentalists of India, and it was discovered that this atman is non-different from Brahman, or the ultimate source of all things: God. So you cannot "explain yourself" as being seperate from anything else. You actually caan't explain who you are to someone when you reach that stage, it can only be experienced by them also by walking the same path of meditation. But at that stage where there is no SELFISH-desire or ambition, you know your own identity o completely, so profusely, so irrevocably that nothing can shake you. So in the sense of what the word ego actually means in its original meaning, then there is still ego, just not a SEPERATE ego.

Now, some of you may have heard the explanation of why pain evolved, essentially it was to give us pointers on self preservation, touch fire, get pain, know that fire is not good for you. This thing we humans have called "Love" is there for a similar reason, and there is a reason that its the best feeling a human can have, because it is a pointer to let us know this IS good for you, therefore when you reach that stage of selfless ambition, of ego-lessness, there comes an overflowing of Love, your very being becomes it, because this is the true state, the true home of the living entity: in unity with all creation. This love is the milestone by which we can tell if we have reached enlightenment. If your entire being is not irradiated with Love then you have not achieved true ego-lessness.

Something else I feel I must say is that this seperate identity called "ego" is not bad or evil, it is not a curse cast upon us by God to inflict misery upon us, it is a necessary part of evolution. The ego can't NOT exist within the animal kingdom. The animal kingdom is something like a martial arts tournament, during the fights everyone has to think only of themselves, a fight cant stop so one fighter can tend anothers wounds in a spirit of 'selflessness' because the second he dropped his guard the other fighter would strike him down. No, during the tournament each fighter must act carefully and in determination towards his own victory, all for the sake of finding the best fighter, who is most prepared for hardship, who is the strongest and sturdiest. Only when the champion is announced, does he have the choice to continue fighting, perhaps losing, and definitely feeling a lot of pain, or to retire from fighting and go back home to his family, or better yet, stay and fight for the sake of others. It is like this in the animal kingdom, and mankind has emerged as the victor of that tournament, we are the champions of the animal kingdom, and we have won the right to choose, choose whether to continue fighting, to continue acting like animals, full of selfish desires, lust, greed, hatred, jealousy, defeating all those who oppose us, and inevitably get hurt and sometimes lose, or whether to lay down the sword and the fist, to realize that the fight is over, stop thinking of ourselves, and return home, back to that unitary consciousness, back to Godhead, back to our family, mother Love, father Consciousness, brother Justice and sister Peace.


Hari Krishna



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Lotuschild
 



Theravada Buddhism is definitely not worse than your cult.
In suttas you can find many interviews of Buddha word by word avoiding nihilism. The whole Eightfold Path is teaching you to reject what is evil an to fill yourself with goodness.
When empty I prefer to invite only the highest and the living - Christ. Not to waste time and love for something that doesnt come from the most high but from people. If there is a must-have ego it is this Christ - the God´s child new personality.
Buddha also rejected traditional Hinduism. Thats why I consider him the final and best product of India.

Also all this "I am" stuff is not so awesome. Not as in books not good enough as a path. You are actually not. Only God really IS. Your existence is tied to a body and after its disintegration you are most likely gone. It is written many times in the Bible so if it is Gods own word it should be taken into account.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ
 


Okay, I feel that I need to make a few things clear to you.

1) I am not a member of any cult, I am not a member of ISKCON, I am not an official member of Hinduism, or of any organized religion. I was raised atheist in Scotland, UK, and have never in my life met anyone who follows what I would agree is a cult based on Krishna that might convert me to affiliation with some dangerous organization functioning on the false pretense of doing the work of God. My faith in Krishna comes from personal experience, a deep and personal journey that I have been on for several years, you might call it sheer chance or coincidence, but when you get to a certain stage you realize that chance and coincidence don't really exist. My faith has sprung simply and solely from things that have happened in my life, in my OWN experiece, that have allowed me to see his hand moving and his love for us working. The Buddha said “Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” and that is exactly what I have done with Krishna and Vedanta. My own personal experience verifies its truth for me. So i could equally say that your Christ "doesnt come from the most high but from people" But that would be disrespectful of the verification obviously provided to you by your own personal experience. I could also, as has been done with both deities in endless discussions that lead nowhere, recount a slew of "facts" accounts and arguments that might prove Christ to be a fictitious or non-divine character. But as I am sure you know that none of that would matter, or shake your faith in Him, because you have felt it, you have seen it with your own eyes, and nothing I say or do - per the Buddhas words - should or could, shake the personal experience and logic that has led you to your devotion in Christ. My comment was not trying to force Krishna on anybody, ONLY vouching for the help and support that association with one of The Personalities of Godhead can provide in terms of spiritual progress, rather than discarding it altogether.

2) I have NOTHING against Buddhism apart from what I stated above, in fact it has been a very big part of my journey. You may notice that in my other post I described the principle of Anicca, or constant change. The only meditations I have found to be effective is Vipassana and Samatha. The teaching of Vedanta is also to reject what is evil and fill yourself with goodness, in fact.. is this not the teaching of essentially every Religion? All religions and spiritual traditions are valuable, and I accept only those which either A) are verified through meditation or B) are verified through life, and so my journey has led me to an understanding of many spiritual teachings, but none have disproved Krishna, in fact, the further I move, the more and more things point to Krishna. And something else is that just about everything I have discovered is summed up in the Upanishads, the Puranas, and the Gita, and they seem to me to be the purest extract of all the wisdom of spirituality, that is why I consider the scope of Vedanta to be the most exhaustive resevoir of Sutamaya Panna and Cintamaya Panna concerning spiritual topics, but as I have said, my own Bhavanamaya Panna has led me to various religions and to the truth within them.

You accept Buddha as the final and best product of India simply because he rejected traditional Hinduism? Well that seems a bit silly to me, what about YOUR opinions on the teachings? Do YOU reject it?

I also feel I have to point out that yes, at the time of Buddha, Brahmanism had become severely corrupted, diluted and scattered, all the wisdom from the times of Krishna, Narada Muni, Vyasadeva, Sukadeva Gosvami etc had been dirtied and sullied and interpreted and spent, and I believe Buddha was the instrument of a spiritual reinvigorantion of that part of the world, bringing them back to a purer understanding of what their own traditions had originally meant to purvey, but still not the complete understanding of everything, while better than the one they had at the time. That is no reason to completely disregard the entire wisdom of Advaita Vedanta.

"Also all this "I am" stuff is not so awesome. Not as in books not good enough as a path. You are actually not. Only God really IS. Your existence is tied to a body and after its disintegration you are most likely gone. It is written many times in the Bible so if it is Gods own word it should be taken into account. "

Okay.. did you actually read my third post? Because if you did then it should be abundantly obvious that I am not in disagreement with you here.

Moses asked what name he might tell the Jews when they asked him who this God that sent him is. God replied "I am that I am" Meaning, that 'I am' which is not in identification with the material nature: that is the source and creator of all things. Meaning that God IS awareness. You are actually not, yes, but what you are not is a seperate identity from the rest of creation, you are part and parcel of God, there is only one God, only one I am, and therefore the identity of each person as a seperate I am is an illusion. Where have you found contradiction in what I have said? Because at least in terms of this, there is no contradiction between our views.

"Your existence is tied to a body and after its disintegration you are most likely gone."

No, only if you believe yourself to be the body do you die when the body dies. In Vipassana meditation, the Buddhas system, you observe the phenomenon on the surface of the body and eventually see that nothing remains permanent, everything passes away eventually, then you surmise that you are not the surface of the body. Eventually you progress to the inside of the body, and come to the same conclusion, then you observe the mind, and come to the same conclusion of impermanence within the mind, this is when you realize that there is no "you" in the body or the mind, but you are still aware, still there to be observing these things. The whole process is to detach awareness from identification with mind and matter and therefore stop the process of reaction to impermanent conditions of mind and matter which you conclude to be conditions of your "self" then you understand what you really are: pure awareness. When you stop reacting to the conditions of the psychosomatic phenomena, and have discovered through personal experience that you are nothing but pure awareness, then the conditioning of countless lives boils to the surface and dissipates. When you realize I am not the body, when you realize I am not the mind, all that is left is I am, eventually even that I am dissipates and your identification is inseperable from the rest of creation and you experience that yes, there is no you, there is only one awareness and "you" are dissolved in it.

Cont.
edit on 7-3-2014 by Lotuschild because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by PapagiorgioCZ
 


This is what I have experienced directly through Buddhist meditation. There are stages higher and I have not achieved them, and there is the final stage where the highest stage is experienced even when you are not in meditation. But I feel grateful to Krishna for guiding me to this most wonderful style of meditation as set forth by the Buddha, I feel that it was he that steered me away from pranayama and such as recommened by "Hinduism" and towards Vipassana which has yielded great results. So you see, my faith in Him only increases no matter what happens.


P.S It seems like you were trying to provoke with that post to be honest because I really don't think that in terms of views and such we are in very much disagreement. That seems a little peculiar to me. Also your sentence "Not as in books not good enough as a path." Doesn't make any sense, its not very grammatically correct buddy and I cant really understand what you meant by that. And as a last little note, I accept the Divinity of Christ and I have had experiences with him. But for one reason or another, it is Krishna who has had the biggest impact on my life and saved me from a depraved existence of drug use and sexual addiction. I have the utmost love and respect for Christ (and also The Buddha) and am in no doubt whatsoever about his Divinity, and while i read his words and works with faith and take them into my life, if not for Krishna i would still be burning bibles like i did when i was 14, it was he who plucked me out from misery and materialism, it was he who opened me up to actually give Jesus and Buddha and Mohammed a fair chance so it is he who I PERSONALLY, not forcing it on anyone else, have the greatest Love, devotion and surrender unto, because for me, he is The Supreme Personality of Godhead.


Surely even if NOTHING i said to you here has had any effect, or changed your opinion that you and i are at odds with each other in some way, you must at the very least respect my right to religious freedom?



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 09:03 PM
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I am my divine spirit and human mind melded as one, in other words, I am enlightenment on my way to ascension.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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onequestion
Who are when you have no desire, when you reach a point where you realize what ambition really is? What do you then become?

Can any of you explain yourself without the lexicon you use to explain your identity?

Forget what you do and what your goals are, how do you then explain yourself?

Can anyone honestly answer this question?
edit on 3/5/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)


Yes I can. I am (not you because I am not you) a clean slate. In every sense a launch pad for anything, any dream to be manifested someway. The ambition is the problem though lol, no desire to be all I can be type situation. however I can literally do anything I want without fear of repercussion. It is a good state of mind. Obviously I have free will as does anyone and create unfavourable cycles to deal with but going back to no fear it just means I have fun without crapping my dacks



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 09:15 PM
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As far as the Bible is concerned, they are not Gods words, God did not write them, man did. With all of mans ideologies and dramas put into the text. All spiritual people know that religion is the starting point to finding God, then you think outside the square religious doctrines and realize there is something more to your extistence than what you have been told, you are then in the awakening stage. Then comes enlightenment and finally ascension.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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onequestion
Who are when you have no desire, when you reach a point where you realize what ambition really is? What do you then become?

Can any of you explain yourself without the lexicon you use to explain your identity?

Forget what you do and what your goals are, how do you then explain yourself?

Can anyone honestly answer this question?
edit on 3/5/2014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)


I can only say that I have had and still do have many desires, consistently throughout life...now do my desires fuel my ambitions...perhaps..or do my ambitions fuel my many desires? You see I cannot answer this question.



posted on Mar, 7 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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BazRaza7
As far as the Bible is concerned, they are not Gods words, God did not write them, man did. With all of mans ideologies and dramas put into the text. All spiritual people know that religion is the starting point to finding God, then you think outside the square religious doctrines and realize there is something more to your extistence than what you have been told, you are then in the awakening stage. Then comes enlightenment and finally ascension.


Ascension is just the beginning of something much more difficult I think. I say difficult because once you ascend (it is actually descending if your human) you became free game for all those living outside their own mind space.
Basically the game begins lol
Welcome to level 11




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