Blackholes, Paradox, the Big Bang Theory, Gamma Ray Bursts and Quantum Gravity

problems related to information loss in Black Holes and the paradox related to that that has perplexed physicists for decades take a step towards being solved. this has implication for the fate of stuff that falls into black holes, the star that generated the black hole, the big bang, understanding certain types of Gamma Ray burst phenomenon, and will be something that can be used to build a quantum gravity model that can be tested. if these scientist's theories are right the big bang was not a one time event and did not arise in a singularity. stuff can leave a black hole, and if proven give QM theorists a physical thing they can explore to find the correct QM theory.

according to the article black holes that evaporate past the radius of the quantum remains of the plank star within them blow up in a gamma ray burst of a certain frequency and may be responsible for some gamma ray bursts. this is a testable proposition. if thier prediction is verified then QM people can work backwards from that to determine the quantum gravity processeses that would cause this outcome to arise. kind of like feeling around on an elephant to determine the underlying form factor of the elephant from examining different parts of the elephant. or reverse engineering something from a busted up artifact or machine.

www.livescience.com...

Since information cannot come from nothing, I wonder if the creation of our universe is a paradox? I wonder if the creation of our universe from nothing would imply that the many-worlds theory is correct? I doubt it, since it would be emphatically stated by countless physicists as being correct. I wonder if anybody with a science background has any ideas on what I just said.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


Interesting, since all of the matter and information is ultimately released back into the universe, could black holes be considered another state of matter?

brazenalderpadrescorpio
Since information cannot come from nothing, I wonder if the creation of our universe is a paradox? I wonder if the creation of our universe from nothing would imply that the many-worlds theory is correct? I doubt it, since it would be emphatically stated by countless physicists as being correct. I wonder if anybody with a science background has any ideas on what I just said.

it may be that the scientists will have to get back around to the many worlds interpetation soon. relativity itself does not forbid time travel. one way out of paradox for that is to say that any mucking about with history results in a divergent universe where the changes take place while the prime universe goes on as if the tampering never happened. the stop gap knee jerk causality ordering postulate or chronology protection postulate just do not have any theoretical support and borders on a quasi animistic religion or mysticism.

Did they finally prove black holes exist?

If they didn't then uhh.... its like poetry i guess.

greencmp
reply to post by stormbringer1701

 

Interesting, since all of the matter and information is ultimately released back into the universe, could black holes be considered another state of matter?

edit on 5-3-2014 by greencmp because: (no reason given)

they might be but if they are it is not because of the information escaping. it would be because of the physics involved with such a dense state and such extremes of gravity and density and so on.

stormbringer1701
this is a testable proposition. if thier prediction is verified then QM people can work backwards ....

Thank goodness you're talking about observation. I would love to see some observation because all the talk without experimental confirmation seems to lose its productivity at some point, though it did take a long time from proposing the Higgs to having the technology to be able to look for it.

onequestion
Did they finally prove black holes exist?

If they didn't then uhh.... its like poetry i guess.

Black holes have been a fact of science for several decades. they (as a system) have been "imaged" countless times by various astronomical instruments.

Arbitrageur

stormbringer1701
this is a testable proposition. if thier prediction is verified then QM people can work backwards ....

Thank goodness you're talking about observation. I would love to see some observation because all the talk without experimental confirmation seems to lose its productivity at some point, though it did take a long time from proposing the Higgs to having the technology to be able to look for it.

well the thing with QG is until now there was no sort of experiment that was with our technical capabilities that they could use to explore it and weed out incorrect competing theories. but now that is changing. we now have a generation of gravity wave detectors with sufficient sensitivity to detect gravity waves from millions of galaxies. we now have a method proposed to sift the CBE data for signs of big bang era gravitons. they would have needed an instrument the size of jupiter to detect gravitons before they came up with that idea. and now this. they can look for the proper gamma ray spectrum signature and either confirm or reject this hypothesis. if it is confirmed they can work backwards and determine the proper QM model. or at least get a good start at it.

Blackholes seem to prevent star formationA new research has found that massive elliptical galaxies in the nearby Universe contain plenty of cold gas, but still they fail to produce new stars as jets from the central supermassive black hole heat or stir up the gas.

inadailynews.com...

INANEWS
Blackholes seem to prevent star formationA new research has found that massive elliptical galaxies in the nearby Universe contain plenty of cold gas, but still they fail to produce new stars as jets from the central supermassive black hole heat or stir up the gas.

inadailynews.com...

ed it on 5-3-2014 by INANEWS because: (no reason given)

yeah. they exist. it's kind of like people I occasionally encounter that vehemently assert that anti-matter is just a theory. even when you ask them what the P in PET scanner means. it's just a theory. So we have valid medical diagnostic and imagery devices that utilize something that is merely a theory?

Nothing in this article really seems to be new information, the theory that space can reach a maximum energy density is not a new idea and the idea of a "bounce" effect happening is not new either, this is all part of loop quantum gravity.

What I don't understand though is why we can't just be satisfied with Hawking Radiation and call it a day. If the black hole can evaporate and release all the energy it consumed then what is the problem? Just because the energy it releases is jumbled up doesn't mean we have an information paradox, unless you want to believe in "quantum determinism", which seems like quite a stupid thing to believe when quantum events can be labeled as "truly random" events. Why is it so hard to accept that existing quantum information can be jumbled up in a truly random fashion? I see no paradox to begin with...

ChaoticOrder
Nothing in this article really seems to be new information, the theory that space can reach a maximum energy density is not a new idea and the idea of a "bounce" effect happening is not new either, this is all part of loop quantum gravity.

What I don't understand though is why we can't just be satisfied with Hawking Radiation and call it a day. If the black hole can evaporate and release all the energy it consumed then what is the problem? Just because the energy it releases is jumbled up doesn't mean we have an information paradox, unless you want to believe in "quantum determinism", which seems like quite a stupid thing to believe when quantum events can be labeled as "truly random" events. Why is it so hard to believe that existing quantum information cannot be jumbled up in a truly random fashion? I see no paradox to begin with...

edit on 5/3/2014 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

actually the black hole info thing is just ancilliary to the thread. the real thrust is that given that this mechanism is real and the predicted gamma spectrum is found then QG finally has something that it can observe to actually confirm and solidify CG.