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Putin Pulls Back Troops, Says No Need for Military Action in Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 



When things go to hell in a foreign country...do you know what local Americans do? Pack up and get the hell out ...we don't send thousands of troops to go occupy under the guise of protecting those X-pat Americans who feel a little worried.


We don't? Please see Operation Urgent Fury and Operation Just Cause. In both cases, we invaded foreign and sovereign nations on the basis of protecting and/or evacuation of American citizens caught in circumstances beyond their ability to extricate themselves.

It's fair to say we don't make a habit of it. It's false to say we haven't and aren't willing to do it. We absolutely have invaded foreign nations on precisely that basis. There were other reasons, of course...and there were other factors here, too. However, the protection and support of American nationals were the driving officially stated reasons in both cases.

I also don't have any fundamental problem with the actions taken either time. Panama became messy and bloody in civilian losses beyond any planning (and most reporting) but...new weapons fail and bombs miss. Ooops..it happened...and the world let us slide on a major issue. Just as they seem to be letting Putin slide on his. It's not as though we're special to have exceptions others will never see as well.

He just took one by the look of it.




posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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Indigo5

MysterX

Ukrainian Ethnic Russians and those in Crimea has officially requested Russian Federation assistance to keep the peace and prevent the kind of brutality and mindless violence of the kind seen on the streets of Kiev.

And you have a problem with that?



WTF? So there are an estimated 4 million Russian-Americans in the United States...Is Putin justified in sending troops here to defend them against perceived intolerance?

Ukraine does not belong to Russia! If an ethnic Russian in the Ukraine feels insecure where they live, then they can either rely on the local government for protection or return to Russia. Either way, Russian Forces occupying is not a valid response on FORIEGN SOIL.

When things go to hell in a foreign country...do you know what local Americans do? Pack up and get the hell out ...we don't send thousands of troops to go occupy under the guise of protecting those X-pat Americans who feel a little worried.

Why again has Moscow told it's military in Crimea to remove insignia that identifies them as Russian Military? Does that sound like a legitimate action or intent?


I begin to believe all those "Russia has no claim to the Crimea"... etc crowd is just mad because they fell for some "Ponzi-scheme".

"Insider tip: Invest NOW into Crimean beach front property! Limited time offers only!"

What damn claim has the USA for its boots on the grounds in Iraq, Afghanistan and the many other places, overt or covert?
No matter the legal side of any of the Ukraine/Crimean/Russian arguments. This is their back yard, culturally, ethnically and historically connected since over a 1,000 years! Versus a 238 years of wanton immigrants and misfits that call themselves the USA. Who built a so called "nation" on the blood and bones of 70 some million natives.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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Guenter
I begin to believe all those "Russia has no claim to the Crimea"... etc crowd is just mad because they fell for some "Ponzi-scheme".

Not Ponzi scheme. Just the facts the Crimea is Ukrainian territory.



Guenter
"Insider tip: Invest NOW into Crimean beach front property! Limited time offers only!"

I think Stalin used this line for Eastern Europe. Ooooo wait, never mind. Property ownership was a non no.




Guenter
What damn claim has the USA for its boots on the grounds in Iraq, Afghanistan and the many other places, overt or covert?
No matter the legal side of any of the Ukraine/Crimean/Russian arguments. This is their back yard, culturally, ethnically and historically connected since over a 1,000 years! Versus a 238 years of wanton immigrants and misfits that call themselves the USA. Who built a so called "nation" on the blood and bones of 70 some million natives.


So if your neighbor decided he wants your back yard and garage, it would be ok for him to take it from you? As for the 70 million natives, have you ever thought the reason they fled Europe was because of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union?

Im tired of the its their backyard comment. Ukraine is a sovereign nation.. Just as the whole of Eastern Europe was.

At one point Russia was also in Germanys backyard. Russia is also in China's backyard, in addition to Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland.


Based on the comments I see people making about Hitler and how the Soviets "beat him back on their own" I am amazed to see you guys think their is a difference between Nazi Germany and Russian actions.
edit on 4-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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Xcathdra

Im tired of the its their backyard comment. Ukraine is a sovereign nation.. Just as the whole of Eastern Europe was.




And I am tired of people trying to barge in with a 200 year understanding of politics and history and comment about a people and culture that is at least 5 times as old. With so many hidden agendas and connections that it takes 1/2 a lifetime to understand.
And where you stand on this issue has become clear already in your many posts. So carry on ...



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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Xcathdra
Putin Pulls Back Troops, Says No Need for Military Action in Ukraine


In a small press conference on Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed there were no Russian troops in Ukraine. However, he maintained that he reserves the right to use military action if needed, and he will do so according to international law.

As far as reports of Russian troops on the ground in the Crimea region, which several journalists have confirmed, Putin denied they were part of his regime, citing the fact that their uniforms were unmarked. According to the Washington Post

“Look at former Soviet republics,” he said, according to the Washington Post's translation. “You can go to a store and buy a uniform. Were these Russian soldiers? No, they’re very well-trained self-defense forces.”

The Russian president claimed that he is not trying to make Crimea a part of Russia, saying that only people who live in Crimea can determine their future.

Putin did, however, say Ukraine's interim president, who replaced the ousted Viktor Yanukovych after he fled the country, unlawfully came into power. In his own news conference last week, Yanukovych expressed a similar sentiment, saying, "I am president of Ukraine, elected by the people of Ukraine [...] and I remain the legitimate president of Ukraine."

Earlier today, Putin pulled back thousands of troops that have been amassing along the Russia-Ukraine border over the past few days, Russian news agency Interfax reported, citing the Kremlin’s press secretary.



edit on 4-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


This is a lie. I read on online news report that the Russian troops have advanced & taken part of the territory already while the Ukranian military is divided, with some guarding a base & threatening to fight if Russia advances. Sounds sort of mild to me. The report also said that this ordeal was caused by Ukranian abuse of Russians in their country.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Asynchrony
 


I've read the OPs propaganda, Now can we have a link to your propaganda?

Please




posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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This seems like a much less biased report:



Putin skirted questions about Russian troops' taking control of Ukraine's Crimea, saying the armed men who seized buildings there over the past few days were local forces.


Putin says Russia has right to use force in Ukraine



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I guess the difference between Nazi Germany and Russia's actions is the same as the difference between Nazi Germany and the actions of the US, UK and Canada.

You seem to have a personal bone to pick with Russia. Nothing they are doing is any worse than what the US, UK and Canada have done in the last couple decades. In fact Russia's actions are understandable to most which is more than what could be said about US, UK and Canada. The only lie I have heard from Russia is their claim that there are no troops in Ukraine, which only an idiot would believe so it can barely be called a lie. The US, UK and Canada lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie and lie.... to their own people even. And when they are accused of lying they call their accusers anti-patriot.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by lemmin
 


Asynchrony is this you?


I get so confused these days especially since the whole mess started and with all these new account names being the same color green.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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What is with this thread, subject is misleading and is a lie, and there are Russian soldiers in Crimea.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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Russia is not pulling troops back to bases in Crimea. I read somewhere that that Russian forces has completed training exercises in western Russia and was called back to base. However they are ready to engage in action if ordered.

I will file out the source for this and put it in the thread.

--

Update:

news.yahoo.com...
edit on 4-3-2014 by deviant300 because: Sources

edit on 4-3-2014 by deviant300 because: Fix error in post.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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At least one of the 'mystery soldiers' made a bit of a hash of things. GRU unit and made the mistake of having personal details on social media.






I also just read that some Ukrainian internet useres noticed in one of the photos one of the soldiers forgot to take off his name tag. Searching for him on vkontakte (the Russian facebook) they found him, with information on his page about his Russian military unit (GRU, military intelligence).


Link

This Russian soldier came up with "just a new uniform" for the lack of insignia




posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by tommyjo
 


Spetsnaz GRU ? So Russian Spec Forces are at work in Crimea?



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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Some relevant info.....

Glavnoye Razvedovatel'noye Upravlenie (GRU)

with particular focus to the organizational page....


The GRU does not have any special-purpose large units, units, or subunits that are directly under the jurisdiction of the GRU. They are all part of the military districts and the fleets, and in operational terms are subordinate to the relevant commanders. During the Soviet period, the basic operational spetsnaz unit was the brigada or brigade. Virtually every military district (MD) was assigned one spetsnaz brigade of 900 to 2,000 spetsnazovtsi. Each brigada includes a brigade headquarters, a signal battalion, support units and battalions (otriadi) of variable composition, ranging from fewer than 200 to over 200 soldiers.

As of mid-1992, GRU special-operations groups remained trained to operate in 3-7 man groups for intelligence-gathering and directaction missions in enemy rear areas. They likely are assigned missions in interethnic conflict areas, as well. Their prominent role in the new Russian mobile force components now being planned (comprising largely airborne, naval infantry, air assault and transport aviation) seems assured.
Source: Federation Of American Scientists (FAS)

They are the third arm of Russian State Security and not a happy thing as an explanation for the masks, I'd think.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 07:50 PM
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deviant300
reply to post by tommyjo
 


Spetsnaz GRU ? So Russian Spec Forces are at work in Crimea?


Lots of military analysts are coming to the same conclusion.

www.vanguardngr.com...



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 08:49 PM
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deviant300
reply to post by tommyjo
 


Spetsnaz GRU ? So Russian Spec Forces are at work in Crimea?


You sure would not want the regular Russian forces doing this. To say the Russian Army has some real issues with disipline, corruption, and desertion would be an understatement. They would have made complete hash of this from the start.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:36 AM
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SLAYER69
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


I think some people may simply be disappointed that the Mystery soldiers may be pulled back to wherever they once came from. It just only happens to coincide with Putin saying Russian Soldiers who were on a Surprise Exercise are being returned to Russia from wherever they were..

No harm, no foul
edit on 4-3-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)


I don't follow what you mean by 'Mystery soldiers' Slayer?

It's not really a mystery is it?

In Crimea alone there are around 1.2 Million (~ 60% of Crimean population) Ethnic Russians living there, a significant percentage of which (not sure how many, but certainly many thousands) are part of a well trained and well equipped militia, naturally based on Russian training standards and using Russian equipment.

This militia doesn't include the ~ 16,000 (can legally be up to 25,000) of actual regular Russian troops stationed in Crimea in full agreement with Ukraine, or for that matter the 1000's of regular Ukrainian soldiers defecting to the Crimean militias daily.

Where is the Mystery over who these troops are?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





They are the third arm of Russian State Security and not a happy thing as an explanation for the masks, I'd think.


I'd hazard a guess the masks are used for the same reason balaclavas and masks were used by the protestors, to hide an individuals identity to mitigate the danger of reprisals and targeting of their families and homes.

The exact same thing is done by US and UK riot police...no face on show, no identifying numbers...the idea is not to be recognised, so no reprisals can come your way.

The fact they are wearing masks adds weight to the fact they are people from the area's militias...if they were foreign troops, nobody would recognise them, if they are residents of the immediate area, there's a high chance they could be recognised and identified and they or their families would be in danger or reprisals.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 08:14 AM
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That guy in the surplus store must be doing a roaring trade! He must have a large stock of Lynx and Tiger? Even the Russian Defence Minister doesn't know how the 'self defence forces' got hold of Tiger and Lynx.



Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu on Wednesday denied that Russian forces are currently deployed in Ukraine's Crimea region and said that video footage showing Russian license plates on the military vehicles was "complete nonsense."

Shoigu responded to journalists' questions Wednesday by saying that he did not know how the unidentified forces came to possess the Lynx and Tiger armored cars that are used by the Russian military.


Link


Photos of Russian hardware in Crimea nothing but provocation – Russia's Defense Minister

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu has dismissed as nothing but a provocation the alleged photos and videos in mass media of Russian military hardware in Crimea. "Of course, it’s a provocation," Shoigu told reporters on Wednesday. "Pure rubbish," he said, commenting on the allegations.

Shoigu also noted that there was no information that people blocking Ukrainian military facilities in Crimea had received modern weaponry, including Tigr and Rys personnel armored carriers. "I do not have any idea about this," the minister said


Link



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by MysterX
 



I'd hazard a guess the masks are used for the same reason balaclavas and masks were used by the protestors, to hide an individuals identity to mitigate the danger of reprisals and targeting of their families and homes.

The exact same thing is done by US and UK riot police...no face on show, no identifying numbers...the idea is not to be recognised, so no reprisals can come your way.


Yup... That would be the explanation I was referring to in my note. I'm glad we're all on the same general page of agreement tho.

It's odd to see such measures taken to hide individual identity, national origin and unit affiliation across the entire short term occupation force though. In fact, that's really been the point many around the world have been crying foul on. Technically, under the Geneva Convention, I believe each of them could be summarily shot as combatants out of uniform without clear loyalty. Hmm..

Heck of a way to run a war. Even a quickie like this one. (Hopefully..on that last part.
)



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