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So they want our guns...

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posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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Cuervo
reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


All I have is a cudgel and an athame so I think I'll be set once all the guns are gone.

Seriously, though... I'm not sure this kind of talk is a great idea. I mean, just saying that to myself seems wrong; like I shouldn't have to say that. But I honestly get the impression that this kind of talk is dangerous for all involved.

To those of you with guns and family, I urge you not to get all alpha when/if they come for your irons. I don't want Ruby Ridge to become an epidemic or a new slang term (i.e. "Did you hear about the Petersons? They just got Ruby Ridged!")

You will not win. If it escalates, you will lose. Fighting this with non-threats will be far more effective and lessen the chance of having to fight it for real someday. Because, if that day ever comes, it will be a civil war and you will lose. Everybody will. Because if that day comes, we will lose every other right in short order after the smoke clears. We should be making every effort to make sure that day never comes, not to fantasize about it. Threats are what they want. It's what will let them justify curfews and martial law.

Now, with the TSA, FBI, and CIA as my witnesses (I'm assuming), I have no guns in my home but if you barge your way in, there some nasty curses you'll unleash on yourself if you go through my altar room.


Yes because history supports your premise........wait how did that work out for the Jews? Or the Russians? Or the Cubans? Or the chinese?

Ok never mind you point is mute when viewed through the long view of history.

Thanks for playing though.




posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


Well said.

4/10/1986 should have been a rally cry!


I wonder how many Americans languish in prison because of this violation of the constitution? You can still legally own machine guns made before 1986 but you must go through the tax stamp process with the ATF. Machine guns made after 1986 are only available to dealers or law enforcement etc.

Oh, they do just take folks guns and rights all the time.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



edit on 5-3-2014 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-3-2014 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 09:56 AM
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vor78

Morg234



They cannot understand more guns in the hands of more citizens equals less crime.
reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


Because, it doesn't.


Are you sure?

There are certainly other contributing factors, but total homicides and the homicide rate in the US have been trending sharply downward since the early 90s, and both are as low as they've been since the late 60s/early 70s. The homicide rate is about half what it was 20 years ago. The same has happened with regards to other classes of violent crime as well. Gun sales, by contrast, have been skyrocketing. NICS background checks for firearm purchases have nearly tripled over the last 15 years or so, with roughly 21 million just last year. Additionally, widespread legalization of concealed carry has also coincided with this time period, and millions are now licensed to carry firearms on their person in their day-to-day business when it was previously illegal to do so.

So in light of that, I'm not sure that we can say definitively that he's wrong. The evidence strongly suggests that you can have a society where sharp increases in the rate of firearm sales and concealed carry occur simultaneously, for whatever reason, with sharp declines in violent crime and homicide rates. Furthermore, rural areas in the US have always tended to have significantly lower rates of violent crime and homicides than the urban areas, yet they also tend to have higher rates of firearm ownership. So I'm not sure that, in the case of the United States, at least, there is a direct correlation. It might be true in a society where there essentially are no privately owned firearms, but that's never going to be a practical reality here.




While I agree correlation doesnt necessarily equal causation, there is a very telling trend it seems to these numbers.

Perhaps that criminals are scared to attack and rob those with guns????



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


you win godwins law! congratulations!



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Sublimecraft
 


dont know about the others, but hitler expanded gun rights for germans.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by ManFromEurope
 


And get our butts kicked like France? Or invaded by Mexico? If there were NO guns out there ,other emplements would be employed. We aren't socialists and WE WILL NOT adhere to such principals in their entirety,We use parts of course but we will never become a caste borne culture like Europe. We bow ,kneel or swear fealty to no one.Just the Constitution.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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When I read about this issue in Connecticut yesterday the thing that stood out was the phrase 4th generation warfare. When Waco happened, they just went in and killed everyone. And when the Republic of Texas group took on the issue, they got them too. And then there was the Montana group that was taken even though they held out for a long time.

The government efforts only succeed if they know you have guns and that you are at a location. They have teams all trained for civil warfare in that way. Under the new type of warfare, once they go after the guns, those with guns go after the lawmakers who made that possible. And that I suppose will be because then other would be tyrants will then fear reprisals and either not run for office or they will not continue to steal the freedoms of those they swore to serve.

I had always wondered how it would ever be that an active civil defiance could happen seeing as how the government has infiltrated every major militia group known. Under the terms of 4th generation warfare, every gun owning individual is a potential patriot militia member.

I always thought Red dawn would come to America, I just never thought the Reds would be the Feds. maybe it should be called "Fed Dawn" instead of Red dawn.

The Ukraine people took back their nation in a week.

I hope we never have civil war. It never goes well for anyone. One last thought on this. Even though there are 3 percenters out there, there are another 5 percent that will sympathize and aid their efforts. I suppose that's something they'll have to figure in as well.

Marshall law anyone?





edit on 5-3-2014 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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cavtrooper7
reply to post by ManFromEurope
 


And get our butts kicked like France? Or invaded by Mexico? If there were NO guns out there ,other emplements would be employed. We aren't socialists and WE WILL NOT adhere to such principals in their entirety,We use parts of course but we will never become a caste borne culture like Europe. We bow ,kneel or swear fealty to no one.Just the Constitution.


We are a culture like no other but one my friend. We always adore the strong.

We are like the Spartans, we even indoctrinate our young to the method of "the strong survive".

We teach them tho have no weakness, we teach them to feel no fear( so what if I get arrested), we teach them violence above all else can bring peace.

It is the America we live in.

Violent TV shows, violent games, violent work places where minor infractions throw their parents out into the cold hard world taking them with them.

This is a place of fighters if there ever has been, we either embrace it, or we will succumb, this is the "law of the land"



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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Fromabove
When I read about this issue in Connecticut yesterday the thing that stood out was the phrase 4th generation warfare. When Waco happened, they just went in and killed everyone. And when the Republic of Texas group took on the issue, they got them too. And then there was the Montana group that was taken even though they held out for a long time.

The government efforts only succeed if they know you have guns and that you are at a location. They have teams all trained for civil warfare in that way. Under the new type of warfare, once they go after the guns, those with guns go after the lawmakers who made that possible. And that I suppose will be because then other would be tyrants will then fear reprisals and either not run for office or they will not continue to steal the freedoms of those they swore to serve.

I had always wondered how it would ever be that an active civil defiance could happen seeing as how the government has infiltrated every major militia group known. Under the terms of 4th generation warfare, every gun owning individual is a potential patriot militia member.

I always thought Red dawn would come to America, I just never thought the Reds would be the Feds. maybe it should be called "Fed Dawn" instead of Red dawn.

The Ukraine people took back their nation in a week.

I hope we never have civil war. It never goes well for anyone. One last thought on this. Even though there are 3 percenters out there, there are another 5 percent that will sympathize and aid their efforts. I suppose that's something they'll have to figure in as well.

Marshall law anyone?





edit on 5-3-2014 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)


I cant believe I was the first to give you a star!!!



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


tell me something.

how would the average person, with no formal military training, stack up against a 6 yr army scout?

now tell me, if the army were to turn on the people, just how well would the people stack up against the army, considering that 90% of people have no formal military training? just using small arms? now add in all the goodies, like drones and tanks, what are the peoples chances?

now, just for giggles, imagine that all the restraints that we put on the army for places like iraq were removed. where the army became what it truly was meant to be, a conquering army? where they were told to roll in, pacify by any means, and move on?

just imagine how much chance the average person would have if the army was told to operate by wwii rules of engagement rather than the "hearts and minds" rules of today.

the average person, never being in the army, can boast and bluster about how they could beat the best military in the world, but i expect better from a vet. even if restricted to just small arms, t.t.p. and physical conditioning puts the army ahead of the people.
edit on 5-3-2014 by stormson because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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stormson

cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


tell me something.

how would the average person, with no formal military training, stack up against a 6 yr army scout?

now tell me, if the army were to turn on the people, just how well would the people stack up against the army, considering that 90% of people have no formal military training? just using small arms? now add in all the goodies, like drones and tanks, what are the peoples chances?

now, just for giggles, imagine that all the restraints that we put on the army for places like iraq were removed. where the army became what it truly was meant to be, a conquering army? where they were told to roll in, pacify by any means, and move on?

just imagine how much change the average person would have if the army was told to operate by wwii rules of engagement rather than the "hearts and minds" rules of today.


That is easy, I WILL tell you.

As a Vet myself, the military WILL NOT turn against "the people".

Lets say for the sake of arguement they do though.

We will call it 2/3 in your (versions favor) do turn on their fellow Americans ( During Katrina the governor of Louisiana told us " to shoot anyone you see stealing" he was rushed out of the room because he was about to "get got" by American soldiers, who didnt sign up to "shoot Americans" was the most mentioned quote YELLED out at him.), those in service plus all us Vets outnumber them.

We know their weaknesses, we know how they operate, we know the methods they employ.

How successful were they against the Iraqi's or afgan's that did even know that much?

Not to mention, there are a lot more here than there that will fight.

Just saying, this wouldnt be "that" war at all.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


Agreed brother, just get me a artillery piece and the grid coordinates, I am able to bring the "STEEL RAIN" in less than 30 seconds after receiving the Foxtrot Mike.

I get the grid and "target" I call out "foxtrot Mike" range X, quadrant X, charge X, fuse X..."at my command".>..."FIRE"........5..4...3...2..1 Sierra splash over? (observer, up 50, fire for effect). "adjust "up 50" FIRE FOR EFFECT!!!!.........FIRE!!!!!!!!

155 Howitzers are AMAZING at making "pussies" talk reason.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:33 AM
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stormson

cavtrooper7
reply to post by Cuervo
 


You need a better divination spell. The Govt wouldn't have a chance,nor would the rest of the planet if THEY tried to take over the US( I have 6 years as an army scout for MY knowledge)
They are screwing up almost EVERYTHING they try due to EPIC incompetence,because the current regime and progressive push are based on SOCIAL POLITICS not logic. Come at us THAT way and not OUR way and it's over.Those who can do this think like me and would turn on them.
Hostages make lousy soldiers,in a nation chock FULL of expert marksmen( Ladies too) they would turn or die.The pres would have to lead from a bunker.


tell me something.

how would the average person, with no formal military training, stack up against a 6 yr army scout?

now tell me, if the army were to turn on the people, just how well would the people stack up against the army, considering that 90% of people have no formal military training? just using small arms? now add in all the goodies, like drones and tanks, what are the peoples chances?

now, just for giggles, imagine that all the restraints that we put on the army for places like iraq were removed. where the army became what it truly was meant to be, a conquering army? where they were told to roll in, pacify by any means, and move on?

just imagine how much chance the average person would have if the army was told to operate by wwii rules of engagement rather than the "hearts and minds" rules of today.

the average person, never being in the army, can boast and bluster about how they could beat the best military in the world, but i expect better from a vet. even if restricted to just small arms, t.t.p. and physical conditioning puts the army ahead of the people.
edit on 5-3-2014 by stormson because: (no reason given)


Some must have forgot to tell all of that to the Vietnamese, Afghani and Iraqi people just to name a couple off the top of my head. All people who only had access to small arms and rudimentary explosives.it didn't stop the Vietnamese from handing the french their back sides for a decade(1945-54) before the US got froggy and decided to jump in themselves where we were given the same treatment for roughly 20 more years (1954-73). Japan's commander in chief during WW2, Isoruku Yamamoto famously said, " You can not invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass".
One thing people leave out of the equation when discussing out matched forces facing off against a technologically superior force is that the force with inferior armaments has one advantage, familiarity, or as they call it in baseball, home field advantage. It has worked to the advantage of Guerrillas from Central America to South East Asia to Ww2 France and beyond. That's not to say the losses wouldn't be bordering on obscene but that would pertain to both sides and with 300 million firearms in private hands, the only real advantage would be to involve multiple armies to fight American civilians Nd that wouldn't look very good on the workd stage. Especially once bodies started stacking up on the tarmack. These are the things I studied and had to be prepared for in the US Army as An 11b in the 10th mtn. Div. and then the 3rd Ranger bat. I spent many, many months at Ft. Benning, some of it at the infamous school of the Americas. Nothing is more American than teaching Central Americans how to blow a bridge!
edit on 5-3-2014 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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Thecakeisalie
reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


If it's your right to own a firearm, then all the power to you.

But ask yourself, in what country would a person need a semi automatic high powered rifle to protect themselves against home invaders, thugs or other miscreants? wouldn't a sidearm suffice?

Then again I come from a place where I don't have to lock my doors at night, hell I could leave it unlocked while I was at work if i wanted to. I can see the right to protect ones self, but I don't see why people need an AR-15 to do so.

You have the right to bear whatever arms you wish, but when a lunatic has the same rights and decides to go on a shooting spree, well...

Personally I have my friend U.B at hand. He doesn't require loading, aiming, or maintenance, but he has the same stopping power.



that's the thing....firstly how are you defining "lunatic"?

for the purposes of this reply, i'll define lunatic as a habitual murderer....a serial killer, if you will....someone who loves killing people, has spent quite a lot of time in prison, and has been let out on parole, for good behavior.....

he's legally barred from purchasing a firearm via the white market....but the black market still exists, and he easily gets a gun...then he kills some people....that's not a failing in the law....that's a failing of the "justice system"...

when the 2nd amendment was written, it was the intent that "no free man shall be disbarred the use of arms"...back then, they didn't do parole...if you killed people, you were executed...penalties were stricter then.....so you could be reasonably sure that any free man(meaning not incarcerated) was relatively decent, and could be trusted with arms...

we got soft though. now executions are seen as barbaric, instead of the crimes committed by those who would have been executed......now we think it better to waste money subsidizing their worthless lives, we give them food, and beverage, and a bed, and a certain level of comfort and convenience.....they deserve none of these things....but again, that's a failing of the "justice system", and the result of us going soft....you wanna talk about weak on crime?....there you go...

if you want to define lunatic as someone with mental health issues.....well, that's a significantly more complex issue....do you ban a free man, who is not a criminal, from having arms, because he's depressed?....do you ban that same person from having arms, because he's been prescribed a psychiatric drug?, or maybe if someone's ever been involuntarily committed......where do you draw the line, and how do you prevent those conditions from being abused, in order to facilitate disarmament of free men?

see, so it's not nearly as simple as you make it out to be....simple fact is that in area where you have high gun ownership(white market, legit weapons), you have lower crime than those with low gun ownership.....detroit is a great example of this...

as long as we have the right to arms, we can have whatever we feel most comfortable with....honestly, an AR-15 is more effective, and easier to use(for a lot of people) than a pistol...we need to drop this silly mindset that the AR-15 is a weapon of war....it's not, it's just another semi-auto rifle...the fact that it looks like a military weapon is a non-issue.....the military uses a rifle based on the AR-15, because they're effective, somewhat reliable(though that is debatable), and easy to use....they use them because they're good, and they're inexpensive...which, coincidentally, is why civilians like them so much....not because they wanna play rambo....it's about utility..



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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ManFromEurope
Meh, I learned from these threads: Don't come armed with logic to a gun-antigun-fight.
---
The core of all thoughts here is simple: If you have guns, the other one will have guns, too. So you need more/better/bigger guns. Which goes for the other person as well.

Result: spiral of logic-defying weapon-purchases. And not a yota-tiny-bit more security..


that's a lovely opinion....too bad it's not based on facts....

answer me these simple questions:

do criminals have guns?

will ANY law stop criminals from having guns?

is it unreasonable to expect the ability to defend yourself on the same terms as your attacker?



the simple fact is that there is NO logic to the anti-gun side of the debate....it's all lies, appeals to emotion, and knee-jerk reactions....name me one place that previously allowed gun ownership, that is safer after having banned it.

if you own a gun, and some armed villain breaks into your home, with the intent to do harm, and you use that gun to stop him, i daresay that provided you with a measure of security....or do you disagree with that, as well?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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blupblup
I've only read the first page and looked at the ridiculous pictures.
It's appalling, embarrassing and blatant propaganda.
The most paranoid, insane and deluded people on the planet.





would you like to make an actual argument, or is the extent of your involvement in this thread going to be an insulting statement of opinion, and a dumbass picture?

i really dislike people like you...all you ever do is say "you people are stupid, and insane, and paranoid", and you never make a valid argument as to why you believe that......can you be a little less lazy, please?
edit on 5-3-2014 by Daedalus because: das spelling



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by oblvion
 


I am 13 delta army vet and oh do I love me some ARTILLERY. and to comment on a previous post you put. I do agree with you on there aint no way our army will go against " the people " . and even if the orders were given I believe that there will be a lot of AWOLS defending the people.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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vor78

Lil Drummerboy
Is there really a threat that we the people are going to loose our right to bare arms?


Undoubtedly, yes. One only has to listen to the people arguing in favor of gun control, including the politicians, to know that most of them don't know what the hell they're talking about. If they don't know anything about firearms, then can you really expect them to support or put forth legislation that is both effective in dealing with firearm-related crime, but also protects the rights of the law abiding gun owners? I don't.

Furthermore, just consider how disingenuous the whole 'assault weapons ban' really is. A person is expected to believe that 'assault weapons', accounting for perhaps 2% of the yearly homicides in the country, present some great societal harm, but once we ban them, that's it, they have no interest in your handguns, shotguns or other rifles, that combined account for the other 98% of firearm related homicides. Do you know how ludicrous that sounds? A person has to be awfully gullible or naive in order to believe that.
edit on 5-3-2014 by vor78 because: (no reason given)


and let's not forget the idiotic assertion that somehow a weapon becomes MORE dangerous if it's black....

i use this example WAY too much, but it's just so damned effective, and demonstrative of how idiotic the moniker "assault weapon" is....

take a Ruger 10/22.....in it's stock config, it's got wood furniture, and a small detachable box magazine..it fire .22 rounds...basically a squirrel gun.....

take that same gun, replace the furniture with black plastic, a pistol grip, a skeleton stock, and a slightly larger box mag, and it's magically become an "assault weapon"...a full-auto weapon of mass killing...only it's not...it's still the same semi-auto, .22-caliber squirrel gun it was before....it's just had a facelift...

i seem to remember a time when certain people were considered dangerous, because they were black....i hate to invoke ethnic bigotry, but it really is the same thing....people(generally) base their opinions on how something LOOKS, rather than seeing something for what it really is....

so the "assault weapon" thing is based purely on cosmetics...how does that make us any safer?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:27 PM
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Liberals invading this thread and talking with no sense but "mah feelings" and no facts based in any reality the rest of us live in gives me a good gut laugh too.

Roll Tide.



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