So they want our guns...

Revelations29
The only reason why we have yet to destroy all the "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan is the terrain...

Really? Is that all. How about rules of engagement? How about politics? How about the fact that they utilize other nations as bases?

...and of course, terrorists are born by are very presence there. You could say the same thing about the US. I can hardly imagine the US being a modern day Iraq.

What happened there could easily happen here. Anyone who does not think so is fooling themselves. There is a very fine line between civilization and less desirable alternatives. I watched people get into fist fights during Sandy for gas, water, bread and parking spaces. If the weather was not so warm I would have thought it was Black Friday.

Even then. You can say that we have a millions of people with guns in this country. It doesn't matter, because a very few percentage of those people are combat ready. I see your point of someone who can pick off guys with their old hunting rifle. I can see that happening to an extent.

Combat training is irrelevant as your second sentence so clearly points out. All you need to be able to do is point and pull. The numbers are on the citizen soldiers side.

But like I said before, lets say it does work. You have to plan to eliminate Central Banking completely, and change how the system works or we'll run into the same mess all over again.

This is a topic for another thread and I do not wish to derail such a great thread by discussing this aspect.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


Exactly. I wonder if any of these anti gun people realize that gun control will never work. Just like drug control dosent work.It didnt work with alcohol, and its not working today with other drugs. Criminals will always find a way.

This is simple logic, and yet, these people dont use it. I wonder if these people represent the majority of the population. I bet they do. Then you have to think to yourself, do these people have any independent thought of their own? Are they capable of critical thinking? Is their thinking completely devoid of using logic and is mostly emotionally based?

Because it seems that way. It seems that most people in the US only think on their left side of the brain, fight or flight. So when they see a bunch of kids dying in a school with an assault rifle, they immediately jump on board with their emotions and agree to ban assualt rifles.

The population of the US has been completely demoralized through the indoctrination in school, and mass media.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Would it be derailing the thread? Most of the talk in this thread is about a corrupt government and things have to change. So how do we change them? What plans do we have? I would like to hear peoples input on this. Because it almost never happens. People keep talking of a corrupt Goverment and things have to change, yet, no one has any real answers to the solution expect for "molon labe".

Revelations29
Would it be derailing the thread?

Yes as it is about gun control and not the Federal Reserve.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


So how do you deal with Gun Control? Do you simply eliminate the people who are advocating it? Do you set up new laws or a system so these people cant get power?

How do you deal with a corrupt Government who wants to take your guns away?

Revelations29
So how do you deal with Gun Control? Do you simply eliminate the people who are advocating it? Do you set up new laws or a system so these people cant get power?

I am a member of the New Jersey Chapter of the National Rifle Association that is being supported by the amicus brief filed by the main organization and 19 state's Attorney Generals that is attempting to overthrow, via legal precedent, New Jersey's ultra-restrictive and draconian gun laws. The legal system must be the first recourse followed by robust lobbying of ones local and state politicians. I own firearms and I vote. I also make a point of getting other people to vote via my advocacy.

How do you deal with a corrupt Government who wants to take your guns away?

This has not happened nor do I expect it to occur. There are too many people like me, SWCCFAN, oblivion, neo96, beezer, peter vlar, Daedalus and anyone else I sadly missed on this thread. When the citizens, armed citizens, stand up, we are noticed and recognized.

Revelations29
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

So how do you deal with Gun Control? Do you simply eliminate the people who are advocating it? Do you set up new laws or a system so these people cant get power?

How do you deal with a corrupt Government who wants to take your guns away?

Not to sound like a dorky poli sci teacher but some of the most basic actions involve calling the offices of or writing to your states d federal representatives. In more backwards states like NY with its SAFEact, there are plenty of more grass roots organizations, I'm part of a class action suit against the state and Cuomo administration. Honestly, if its something you really care about you will go out of your way to find a way to jump in and be involved. Being a member of a gun club is a great way to network with other people and find out what they are doing as well. You can't realistically set up a defacto system to keep people you disagree with out of office but you can network with like minded people and help campaign for candidates that represent your values and interests or take it one step further and become the candidate you want to represent you. It's a pain in the ass and any of it requires. Massive commitment of at least your time but it beats te neck out of peeking out the curtains with a tin foil hat, 2nd hand body armor and a half broken rifle loaded with cheap Russian steel cased ammo just waiting for "them" to come and shake you down for all your cold steel.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You raise a good point of spreading awareness to others. That's one of the most important things. But see you are a part of a dying crowd. Sure there's people that will educate their children about these matters but they are few and far between. That 3% number of people who own guns will educate their children, but that group is a minority among the masses who are against it.

Advocating and spreading awareness is good, but I think it only goes so far. Because in my mind the people spreading awareness who are a minority, will soon be eliminated with the new generations and their new "progressive" way of thinking.

I think you have to do more then just spreading awareness, you have to stop the corruption where it starts. I think it all starts with the Central Banking system, and unless you eliminate that system, nothing will get any better. I don't think thats off topic, but I believe gun control will only get worse unless you eliminate the heart of the problem.

reply to post by peter vlar


Read my recent post. You guys are doing a hell of a lot more then me by actually going out there and spreading awareness while I idly sit here by my keyboard.

In the end though it just seems like an unstoppable force that we have no chance in beating. I know this is a very defeatist attitude but I just don't see how we can win. It's kind of like that mind set in 1984 where the main character is talking to his girlfriend in their secret bedroom. Here's the quote.

"She hated the Party, and said so in the crudest words, but she made no general criticism of it. Except where it touched upon her own life she had no interest in Party doctrine […]. Any kind of organized revolt against the Party, which was bound to be a failure, struck her as stupid. The clever thing was to break the rules and stay alive all the same. He wondered vaguely how many others like her there might be in the younger generation people who had grown up in the world of the Revolution, knowing nothing else, accepting the Party as something unalterable, like the sky, not rebelling against its authority but simply evading it, as a rabbit dodges a dog. (2.3.15)"

-1984, George Orwell

Anyway more power to you guys. Most of my generation I think might grow up in this mindset, or they already have it.

Revelations29
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

How do you deal with a corrupt Government who wants to take your guns away?

Easiest way is to shift to the USA, since there is no such government there.

Of course you have to put up with a bunch of deluded "patriots" frothing at the mouth over imaginary wrongs.....but at least you can own a gun and shoot them in many states if they come onto your property.

Revelations29
reply to post by SWCCFAN

 

A few questions for everyone here thinking a revolution may occur and can be accomplished.

First, to get the big elephant out of the room. So 3% of the United States population has guns. Okay. How many of that percent are physically and trained for combat? Maybe 0.1%? Maybe less of that 3% number?

Looks to me that the only people that are ready to fight a revolution would be ex military guys and ex cops. Then, you add the fact that these people have to be willing to die for their cause.

Second. The police force has acquired high tec military gear including drones. Then of course you add the military to all of this. And you are looking at a scary threat here.

Third, the only reason why the revolution worked before was because it was on purpose (bankers fueled both sides) and both sides were on almost equal ground with technology.

Fourth, lets say the revolution works. Things can obliviously be exactly the same after the revolution like it was before. Will these people get rid of the Central Banking system? Will they drastically change how our Government works?

I just don't see all of this happening. Hell even if the bankers wanted another revolution, could the patriots even pull it off?

I mean your looking at a very few number of actual combat ready men versus a police force in the thousands that already has military equipment. I can just imagine a group of revolutionaries all in one building planning their revolution, then BOOM a hellfire missile from a drone kills them all instantly.

The only way anything will get solved in this country is through the elimination of the Central Banking system. All problems stem from Central Banking.

I know everyone in this thread is all excited about their new toys and talking to fellow gun owners ( I am as well) but I think its time to see reality.

All you are doing is playing into their game. Just like the Revolution we had hundreds of years ago.

Your discounting a very large portion of the populous, assuming only military training makes one capable of action.

So the "duck dynasty guys" couldnt possibly cause some damage if they were so inclined?

How many of their type are out there? Hint it is millions.

Hunting an animal and hunting a man are very similar, except the animals have better hearing and sense of smell, and have spent an entire lifetime honing these skills.

reply to post by oblvion



Beat me to the punch. Most of my friends hunt and a good hunter is a good tracker and also skilled at masking his presence and scent from game. If only 1/3 of firearms are in the hands of skilled hunters that's 100 million people, skilled men or women with arms. I'd take them with me as quick as any of the maniacs I served with. Especially since they know the terrain in their areas. For comparison, there are or were an estimated 80-100,000 Taliban and they managed to put a huge damper in a multinational coalition of some of the best trained troops in the world. A force of people 10x that size fighting for their homes is a little daunting to me and would be so to anyone attempting to subdue them. Just to clarify so nobody misunderstands me, I'm in no way at all advocating any sort of violent confrontation. I'm just trying to give a little perspective to everyone who seems to think that it would last as long as the Falkland Islands War of 1982 and end in bloody annihilation for anyone attempting
To keep their arms in the face of mass confiscation.

reply to post by Revelations29


I see your point but I also think you're doing more than the average person. You're at least asking questions and trying to understand all sides of the equation. You've got to start somewhere. And if I didn't live in NY, which passed one of the most ridiculous gun laws since Clinton signed the AWB in 1994, I might care a lot less. I'm a classic example of sitting on my rear until it affected me.too little too late. Never mind the fact that our legislature passed the bill in violation of the state constitution and literally passed it in the middle of the night. My local gun store had to call in police the morning after the bill was signed into law because there were near riots as people were making a run on what they still had in stock. It's a sign of what is to come if some members of out federal government ever get their way.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Ah but remember I'm poor all I can afford are deer hunting rounds in my .308,I am no longer a signitory of the Geneva convention. That goes for interesting shotgun loads too. A very nasty deterrent to tyranny eh?

peter vlar

oblvion

You got that right!!!!

Americans invented asymmetric warfare, we are very good at it.

Why yes... Yes we are! And by the way, a big thank you to you and the other field artillery cats posting in this thread. Nothing used to make me happier than making that call and then hearing the whistle of incoming artillery whiz zing over my head and into the tree line giving me trouble. I owe you guys a few beers for sure!

No problem brother, it was our pleasure to help.

"FIRE MISSION!!!! range 5600 meters, deflection 2347, quadrant 279er, charge 5 green bag fuse pd...at my command.........FIRE!!!!!"

38 seconds later " foxtrot1 sierra splash over"

"ALPHA2 this is foxtrot1 over, foxtrot1 this is alpha2 over, adjust fire plus 100, left 50, fire for effect!!!"

OH my , I loved those big guns, the 19er8 howitzer is a beast, when the bunnies start humping rounds it just brings joy to my heart.

Who doesnt love hearing 100lbs bullets making their signature WHOOMP on the horizon?

BTW, we were in the rear with the gear, you guys were the grunts in the front, the beers are on me if I ever run into you.

Revelations29
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Would it be derailing the thread? Most of the talk in this thread is about a corrupt government and things have to change. So how do we change them? What plans do we have? I would like to hear peoples input on this. Because it almost never happens. People keep talking of a corrupt Goverment and things have to change, yet, no one has any real answers to the solution expect for "molon labe".

You are wrong on that front, plenty of us have plenty of solutions.

Get 20 posts and start the thread, I will engage in this debate with you there. Here and now in this thread, the mods will "moderate" this thread if we begin to cause thread drift.

Different topic different thread.

I do wish to have this conversation though.

I have many "good" (as in my opinion they are good ideas) ideas about how to fix many of our ills, not all but many.

reply to post by Cuervo


I wouldn't move on anything but that(That's why I'm getting a BA in media art),I do agree we REALLY don't need that to happen.But how stupid are our challengers? Are they so foolishly emboldened buy politics that they will go for it? It sure does look like it but I also have a suggestion for all Progs:

Obama has gone WAAAAAAY too far with his agenda and the right let him get away with a LOT. What would it look like if a "HAWK" is elected? These may get past us as we vote out YOUR people this fall. I don't need THAT BS either but that pendulum is swinging back right.If it goes too far those guns cover that too.

AugustusMasonicus

Revelations29
So how do you deal with Gun Control? Do you simply eliminate the people who are advocating it? Do you set up new laws or a system so these people cant get power?

I am a member of the New Jersey Chapter of the National Rifle Association that is being supported by the amicus brief filed by the main organization and 19 state's Attorney Generals that is attempting to overthrow, via legal precedent, New Jersey's ultra-restrictive and draconian gun laws. The legal system must be the first recourse followed by robust lobbying of ones local and state politicians. I own firearms and I vote. I also make a point of getting other people to vote via my advocacy.

How do you deal with a corrupt Government who wants to take your guns away?

This has not happened nor do I expect it to occur. There are too many people like me, SWCCFAN, oblivion, neo96, beezer, peter vlar, Daedalus and anyone else I sadly missed on this thread. When the citizens, armed citizens, stand up, we are noticed and recognized.

edit on 5-3-2014 by AugustusMasonicus because: Bring back the Limelight

EXACTLY!!!!

The funniest thing of all, to me, is that I believe every name on that list are Vets.

Silly civies, they just need to be issued a pair of balls. Once one realizes what anyone can be capable of if they just grit their teeth and try, little can stand in their way.

oblvion


Who doesnt love hearing 100lbs bullets making their signature WHOOMP on the horizon?

BTW, we were in the rear with the gear, you guys were the grunts in the front, the beers are on me if I ever run into you.

edit on 2014bWednesdayv3320143 by oblvion because: (no reason given)

Anyone that doesn't love that sound is a fool. The bigger the boom the bigger my smile was. You should've seen me the day they issued me a 203. It was like Christmas morning for me! It was only 40 mm grenades which is tiny compared to what you guys were lobbing but a couple well placed shots from that... Just beautiful. Te day we trapped the sniper in a building and it was just 2 fire teams, 3 of the 40mm at the roof brought most of the 3rd floor down on him. I always had a lot more respect for you guys than the 11 B's on the mortar teams. They were all pussies who loved to talk a big game about being infantry when we were at a bar but we all know none of them had got their hands dirty since AIT.

peter vlar

Revelations29
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

So how do you deal with Gun Control? Do you simply eliminate the people who are advocating it? Do you set up new laws or a system so these people cant get power?

How do you deal with a corrupt Government who wants to take your guns away?

Not to sound like a dorky poli sci teacher but some of the most basic actions involve calling the offices of or writing to your states d federal representatives. In more backwards states like NY with its SAFEact, there are plenty of more grass roots organizations, I'm part of a class action suit against the state and Cuomo administration. Honestly, if its something you really care about you will go out of your way to find a way to jump in and be involved. Being a member of a gun club is a great way to network with other people and find out what they are doing as well. You can't realistically set up a defacto system to keep people you disagree with out of office but you can network with like minded people and help campaign for candidates that represent your values and interests or take it one step further and become the candidate you want to represent you. It's a pain in the ass and any of it requires. Massive commitment of at least your time but

it beats te neck out of peeking out the curtains with a tin foil hat, 2nd hand body armor and a half broken rifle loaded with cheap Russian steel cased ammo just waiting for "them" to come and shake you down for all your cold steel.

edit on 5-3-2014 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)

I just honestly spit beer.