Declaration. If you are interested in disclousure and want to make it happen soon...! Hear me out!!!

reply to post by kauskau


Millions of people believe in god or think they have witnessed evidence of his existence. Millions more think they have seen ghosts. Others have reported seeing demons or pixies, Do you think that because of this there is a government coverup and conspiracy regarding these subjects. Do you think the governments have recovered ghosts,demons , angels and pixies hidden away?

Should we be calling for disclosure on God from the government just because people believe he exists?

A few reasons why I think it’s a Disclosure Struggle.

Control The infrastructure would change, it would change how see the world and beyond.
Influence: Suddenly the answers we would be given on things from the government wouldn’t be taken so factually anymore.
Integration: Studies show that tribal communities in the outback’s of jungles and arid areas, when introduced to the 'Alien' life that inhabits the world, they crumbled, disappeared. There arrogance to the evidence also caused problems. Civilizations show that when introduced to a more advanced population, there integration into that 'new world' came to a bitter and devastating end. They simply did not cope.
Acceptance: Religions, corporations, industries, 9 to 5ers and even the gym goers would all experience a drastic change to their world and beliefs.

I believe a way out of all this....
Telling Us the Truth: If the UN said, "We are at this time trying to establish a reform to the modern world that will allow us to participate in with the foreign and not so foreign entities that are of an exceptionally advanced civilizations and in some cases, in allegiance with one another. In order to participate in this universe, we must be all singing from the same sheet of paper. We must meet the criteria for the integration, for the retribution. You, the people of the world must follow a procedure, a good and fair and prosperous procedure that will enable us to understand and be reviewed on our efforts. Or we will be here forever, never moving forward as we were intended to do, never finding out the meaning of life."

What if, when they did the census, there was a little tick box on the sheet on one of the pages. That simply read: Would you like to receive information about the scientific endeavors our government is implicating in the next few years? How many people would tick that box? Well... we would, put the population at large..... No, and that’s why it’s a good thing. So you roll into work on the Monday after receiving your third issue of GovSci&Tech Monthly. And at the weekend you had absolutely nothing to do except look at the junk mail on your table. And you can’t wait to tell your colleges what you have read.
"Aliens are real! There here and we have been in contact with them for some time, look at this!" You would get The, "What?! Are you kidding"
"No look here, it’s all there in black and white, from the government, didn’t you get a copy? Arrr so the penny drops, more and more offices and work places and pubs and blog sites are filled with the 'new' information. People are being slowly broken into this idea in their own way. The information has been distributed to the public forums delicate ears by the people that they know, or the papers they read. Not with a big statement on TV shocking the whole world into killing one another and not showing up for work. Then the UN and the countries involved make their own TV appearances in their own respectable countries, make a big speech on TV about, yes, it’s real, you have heard this, you have read this.... Well, the shock of it has already had the edge taken off it, and then the Governments are in the hot seat, and the worst is out of the way.... role on part one of Telling Us The Truth.

Note:
What if the true meaning of life meant that we come back, or are in a spiritual sense, everlasting. Would the laws that are in place be as effective if people knew the whole truth, "Awe it doesn’t matter, kill him anyway." Would people be committing suicide all over the place as the form of a reset button??!! God forbid!

So many questions would come up, why did you lie? So you where lying about all this stuff too? What about this? THAT TOO!!! We don’t trust you anymore. There is no such thing as a little bit of Disclosure, the whole thing would come unreeled, the whole dark side of the shadow government would be shown, and we would see what they had been up to.... the revolution (if there was one) would be worldwide, the war in the streets that is so often talked about would probably come from that particular issue. The Lies. I understand there problem, but I do not sympathize with them, as for the time being, I am probably labelled as insane. That is my issue.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by kauskau

 

Millions of people believe in god or think they have witnessed evidence of his existence. Millions more think they have seen ghosts. Others have reported seeing demons or pixies, Do you think that because of this there is a government coverup and conspiracy regarding these subjects. Do you think the governments have recovered ghosts,demons and pixies hidden away?

Should we be calling for disclose on God from the government?

You are mixing different subjects when you try to put the UFO Phenomenon in one bag with "ghost phenomenon". And in a way i can only see that at least there is a structure working in you that tries to "divert" from the original subject by ridiculing it and make it seem as we are talking about a "ghostly phenomenon". The normal function of "selective ignorance" narrowing your view down by mixing different subjects which have nothing to do with each other.

WE ARE NOT SPEAKING ABOUT GHOSTS ,my friend.



are these people seeing ghosts? Do you really want me to quote some of the many, many GOOD threads ATS already created on the subject of the authentic, believable, credible People speaking out on this topic from the governmental and political areas...????


i give you one. And you can go on calling these "fakers, believers, guillable"...but you are not the smartest guy around doing that. I can only say: study this. Try to debunk this. Look through their vitas and biographies.
You will not be able to be ignorant on this much longer.

AutumnWitch657
It could be that there is nothing to disclose. Could be we are too far away from any other civilization to make visits impossible. Could be we are an anomaly and life like ours doesn't happen frequently. Could be we are it and there are no others at all.
There is not any proof just circumstantial evidence.

While I agree that it is possible (not completely outside the realm of possibility) that we are alone in the universe, I highly highly doubt it. But I do get what you are saying about the evidence only being circumstantial.

Having said that, I also really do agree that it may be that space-faring civilizations may be few and far between, and have not yet come upon Earth. Earth and our solar system is just a miniscule part of our galaxy -- and a virtually infinitesimal portion of the known universe. Even if you take the distance our radio communications have seeped into space (about a 200-light year diameter bubble around us), that is STILL just a miniscule portion of the galaxy, and the evidence of our existence may be very easy for space-faring ET civilizations to overlook.

We may not be the only intelligent life in the galaxy, but we may be as "alone" as a castaway on a desert island. That castaway is by far NOT the only life on earth, but he may as well consider himself to be very much alone in the world, because no one knows he is there, and he has no way of communicating with the rest of the world.

So, yeah -- I'm on the side that says there may be nothing to disclose. Sure -- there are "unexplained UFO reports", but that does not necessarily equate to "aliens are among us".

reply to post by kauskau

You are mixing different subjects when you try to put the UFO Phenomenon in one bag with "ghost phenomenon". And in a way i can only see that at least there is a structure working in you that tries to "divert" from the original subject by ridiculing it and make it seem as we are talking about a "ghostly phenomenon". The normal function of "selective ignorance" narrowing your view down by mixing different subjects which have nothing to do with each other.

WE ARE NOT SPEAKING ABOUT GHOSTS ,my friend.

What it does demonstrate is that just because people report seeing something they cant explain doesn't automatically mean the government knows of alien visitation and is covering it up. Just in the way that when people report seeing ghosts it doesn't mean the government doesn't have proof of an afterlife they are keeping secret. You automatic assumption that because people have seen stuff they cant explain there must be a secret government cover up is an illogical connection.

My original question was what if they have disclosed everything they know? What if there is nothing to disclose. You then made the diversion of saying that i was claiming that everyone who thought they something unusual was crazy. My question and your answer have nothing to do with each other..another illogical connection on your part.

Well i think: there is enough evidence that a cover-up is going on. ATS is full of it.

And if you don´t see it that way we can agree to disagree.

PhoenixOD
My original question was what if they have disclosed everything they know? What if there is nothing to disclose. You then made the diversion of saying that i was claiming that everyone who thought they something unusual was crazy. My question and your answer have nothing to do with each other..another illogical connection on your part.

Another possibilty is that the government DOES have some secrets regarding UFO sightings, but even coming clean on all of those secrets may STILL not disclose that UFOs are actually ET visitors.

I'm sure the governments of the world do in fact have secrets, but that doesn't mean they have secret knowledge that ETs are definitely visiting us.

kauskau
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

what makes you think the thousands of people who report ufo sightings are crazy? What makes you think the people from the military that came forward with knowledge in that area are attention hungry fakers?
What makes you think the government has such technology...

Are you using delusional logic of a selective narrow mindset?

Might you be doing the same thing? I do not think thousands of people are crazy. They all saw something. What, exactly? Read the reports and you'll find the vast majority of reports are of lights in the sky and daylight disks. Very few are of discernible objects, and the fact that these very few are not blurry to the point of indistinction and point to some sort of physical, manufactured object does not automatically translate to "aliens from space." In fact, it's a bit of a mystery why people translate lights in the sky to "aliens" with no proof whatsoever. THAT is "delusional logic of a selective narrow mindset" that insists anything not immediately indentifiable must be aliens. I would submit that this is a cultural phenomenon based on our own mindset. A few hundred years ago we would have seen witches and fairies. We have no idea what we are really seeing, so we place our own cultural definitions upon them. "Space aliens" fits neatly into the archetype.

Once we get beyond all the "thousands of people" who haven't seen much really relevant to the discussion anyway, regardless of the fact they are used as "evidence," we get to strange territory: abductions, people who report conversations with aliens, etc. The problem here is not that some of them MAY be true, but the sure knowledge that many of them are NOT. If you insist on believing people like Truman Bethurum or Billy Meier, just as examples, then I would submit that it is you who are delusional. That's not to say that some people are not reporting honestly, but we have the added complication of how deeply they have been mired in the rabbit hole as well. Read Jacque Vallee's "Messengers of Deception" for an in-depth discussion of the very real possibility that we have on our hands a phenomenon that would very much like us to believe in aliens from space. Are "they" telling the truth? It's not that easy a question to resolve. It's terribly naïve for us to think we've solved the whole thing.

So we come to the knowledge of governments and "disclosure." Once again we have very little real knowledge along with governments which resist any sort of disclosure as a matter of course. One very good reason for this is that quite a few of these "UFOs" floating out there are really government secret projects. We know this because they've said so. They have told us that it was just as easy pretending the SR-71, for example, was a UFO because they did not want to disclose that they had this thing flying around. It was easy to let the public imagination run wild. I believe (though I do not know for certain) that the triangle craft fall into this category. So the bottom line here is that if military secrets are involved, the governments will clam up and will also encourage the answer to be "UFOs" because it is in there interests to do so.

So the Bottom Line here is that you are left with a handful of evidence and a few really good stories. Along with that you have what in summary can be called, "plausible deniability." This is a VERY powerful issue. During Iran-Contra people looked at how drifty Reagan appeared to be and thought it was plausible that he did not know about this plot. During Watergate people thought it was plausible Nixon didn't know about the break-in--until the tapes gave him away. And during WW II when reports leaked out of Germany about the concentration camps where millions were being slaughtered, it was dismissed as Allied propaganda. And this was seen by people in Allied countries as plausible because, of course, no one would ever do such a thing in a modern advanced society.

So we're faced with Plausible Deniability, and for MOST PEOPLE that is perfectly acceptable because most people, quite frankly, couldn't be bothered with aliens when their main concern is getting a job and feeding their family, getting to work on time, taking care of their babies, and simply "pursuing happiness" in the way they see fit, whether YOU think that is appropriate and meets your standards of conduct or not. They don't care about aliens and they also think people who do are just a little crazy themselves. And serious attempts to force the issue have failed dismally. Those "National Press Club Disclosure" events, whether you believe every witness or not, have been greeted by a dull thud by the populace as a whole.

Now, did the governments CREATE this dull thud by planting these attempts with disinformation, shills, paid informants, and all manner of dirty tricks? Now of course the proponents will claim so, like Greer claimed his Press Club conference was torpedoed by 9/11, but it amounts to a flat excuse. Whether the thud was caused by dirty tricks or not, it was still a thud. Mission accomplished by either dirty tricks or ineptness on the part of the supporters. It doesn't really matter. It's a done deal. Attempts at disclosure, some spending millions of dollars, have been greeted by a dull thud.

Nobody cares. The MSM doesn't care. Whether it is Der Spiegel or the NYT they will treat the subject with tongue-in-cheek and derision. The only people who care are people who come onto places like ATS, and what do THESE people believe? More crazy stuff. They believe 9/11 was a government plot. They believe in Illuminati plots. They believe in Chemtrails, for God's sake, even though no one can figure out what chemical is sprayed or what it does. They believe in a litany of crazy stuff that says a whole lot more about themselves than it does about reality. If they get a hangnail, they blame the bankers.

So when someone comes along and says, "Aliens have landed and I have the proof because thousands of people saw lights in the sky and they aren't all crazy!" then the average person is going to say, "No, of course they aren't crazy, but you are." because you have somehow inexplicably turned "thousands of lights!" into "aliens from space!" which is, frankly, crazy, and makes you one step from the loony bin. Further, in times past we would have put you there, but we don't have room for such nonsense at the moment, so you're free to go and act stupidly as long as you don't hurt anyone. Besides, you acting stupidly might prove useful.

And THAT'S where "Disclosure" is today, and if you think differently, you're the one who is delusional.

reply to post by kauskau


kauskau, Star and Flag!

Thank you for the thread.

I am one of the more outspoken witnesses to the mass Arizona sighting on March 13, 1997, misnamed the Phoenix Lights. The Phoenix Lights name to me would be the 10 pm intentional diversionary flare drop by USAF A10's over the North-Tac Barry Goldwater Range 45-60 miles south of Phoenix.

The true sighting by thousands is in the 8 o'clock hour throughout the state of Arizona by multiple V shaped craft of unbelievable length of a mile or more. This I call "The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997". Our 17th anniversary is just days away. I have written many missives about our sighting and publically spoken of our sighting for years. My sighting still burns deeply in my soul.

I do believe disclosure will only occur after a mass daylight, public sighting occurs and governments would have no choice but to open the files and then deny their previous knowledge.

My articles of my experience can be found at www.theufochronicles.com

Mike

Even if the government did do some form of disclosure, or publicly announced it that their are Ufos, that are not of this Earth.
It would only add to more questions about the exact nature, even if the only guess was Alien.

I mean, it wouldn't explain anything at all, in the all knowing, and boring field of academic science. Let alone, how they think, or what they are capable off.

Disclosure wouldn't mean scrap at all in the grand scheme of things. Let alone the fact that E.t seems to be very full of stage fright, and possibly won't allow it ether.

reply to post by schuyler


A very well thought out and put together post

The only thing i would disagree with there is when you said

Nobody cares. The MSM doesn't care.

I think its the MSN that is cause the problems. You only have to get Joe Blogs recording a dot in the sky on this mobile phone these days and you find a lot of the local news outlets pic it up. They know the general public is interested in this stuff and they love to report on it as it boost viewing figures and page views. They do a good job of only reporting what the witness says and never really dig to deep into what it really is. The Mail Online is a main offender at these kind of stories.

I think we have been told the MSN ignores UFO reports so many times by people selling UFO books that it just sticks but at the end of the day they will report on anything that will make them money.

PhoenixOD
I think its the MSN that is cause the problems. You only have to get Joe Blogs recording a dot in the sky on this mobile phone these days and you find a lot of the local news outlets pic it up. They know the general public is interested in this stuff and they love to report on it as it boost viewing figures and page views. They do a good job of only reporting what the witness says and never really dig to deep into what it really is. The Mail Online is a main offender at these kind of stories...

Uggh, yes. Local TV news shows are a major offender. I think the local TV news outlets will run stories such as this with a bit of sensationalism because they are looking to keep viewers watching.

How many times have we seen a thread on ATS linking to a local TV news report of a sighting in which the local TV news did not do their due diligence in attempting to explain the sighting? Or, even if they DO bring in an "expert", that expert seems to be lacking in some critical thinking skills.

I remember a thread with so-called "aviation expert" who was brought in by the TV news people to explain a blob that flew across a webcam. That so-called expert measured the time it took to cross the frame and claimed it was moving faster than any animal, insect, or aircraft known to man. HOWEVER, he never took into account the idea that the blob could have been an insect only a foot from the camera, thus crossing the frame quickly. That "expert" seemed to be unaware of the fact that without knowing how far the object was from the camera, there is no way to measure its speed.

The lesson learned there is don't blindly believe something someone says just because they are a supposed "expert". Try to understand the science and logic the expert is using before blindly believing what they are saying. Even experts can be wrong, and an "expert" on a local TV news report may still be speaking garbage.

reply to post by mikefortson


Thanks mike! I will look into it.

kauskau
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

Wrong. We are in the internet age in which "hypes" can snowball really fastly..

And luckily debunked even faster.

reply to post by JadeStar



Luckily ..but in some cases only seemingly

kauskau
reply to post by yeahright

 

darryl anka is not the topic here as Springer wants it to be treated as a hoax from now on.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As well he should be.

As for you, young Padawan. Use the force and read THIS paper:

Incommensurability, Orthodoxy and the Physics of High Strangeness: A 6-layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena - by J.F. Vallee and Eric W. Davis

Its worth more than 10 years of watching hokey channeller videos.

Throw all assumptions out the window first.

reply to post by kauskau

IT.WILL.NEVER.HAPPEN. It doesnt NEED to....evidence is everywhere, and the world as a whole...will never put their arms around each other all at once and say "YEP! Theyre HERE!".

To discount all the evidence of them here...is not being realistic. So is expecting it to happen SOON....it wont.

reply to post by kauskau


what i find hard to comprehend is not if et's are visiting us, but your assumption of why they haven't shown us new technology for example clean pollutant free energy etc.... what makes us so special that supposedly intelligent life forms from other worlds would give a flying f*** what our problems are... if they exist and are visiting this planet, they are therefore surely visiting thousands of planets just like this one with life on it... so it's not them and us... its them and all the others and us...
Why would et's be concerned about planet earth.... why? what possible use are we to them. its possible they see us as food, and not as intelligent creatures... how do we gauge intelligence in other life forms on this planet? we gauge it against human intelligence. so supposedly et's do the same sort of comparison... we consider a pig or a cow as not very intelligent and we eat them.. there are some creatures we do consider intelligent such as octopus and we also eat them......
if we are of any use at all to et's it must be thought that we are on their menu's and they are not in the slightest bit bothered with our problems amongst ourselves..... as for friendly et's we can't even find friendship on planet earth that is completely trustworthy.... so why would we think we will find it in a galaxy which is a galaxy within a galaxy forever more and more...
our problem is that no matter how broadminded or out of the box thoughts we have..... it's still way to narrow to comprehend anything in space, until we can travel at the speed of will power.... because anything less than that is too slow...
good post even if it assumes anyone in our galaxies cares about us... we are not alone as far as visitors are concerned but we are alone when it comes to relying on them to fix the mess we made of this life holding planet... its our bed and we must lay in it......... there is no help forthcoming from happy go lucky space explorers of other worlds.....

reply to post by flipflop



Advanced civilizations understand the structure of consciousness. So they know that our civilization is not "isolated". Because there is no isolation in consciousness. They know that the state of our existence has effects on many levels.

Why do you think they switch of nuclear weapons (just watch the videos of the military people reporting that)...

When we blow up an atomic weapon this has an effect on many planes of existence. They want us to grow.

And of course you have to understand one thing: real intelligence is expansive...and ever growing. So advanced beings are not in the mind set you think they should be "not interested".
Because they understand that from every perspective something special can be created they honor the possibilities...

THey understand that we are an expression of a quantum field which gets more and more self aware.

Don´t think advanced beings believe in the same 3 dimensional limitations we believe in. Don´t think "distance" is something which exists as a a barrier in their mindset. They understand that its all about "frequency" and that everything is HERE AND NOW . And that even the past is created from the now. Even the future is.. So in a sense really advanced beings are able to study the effects it has when we are isolated and the effects it has when we are not isolated. But as the multiverse is infinite they know that every possibility already exists and "choose" the possibility in which they have the greatest chance of expansion. And expansion only works integrative... So isolation and "not being interested" is not the key.

Don´t think advanced beings are ignorant like humans in the zoo thinking that the animals are stupid.... This is just plain stupid.

ET know how complex even stupidity is...lool

I heard one interesting sentence from a scientist in germany. Think about it: Really advanced beings are not so alien to us as we are to them..


Because their action will seem for us like a natural logic which goes hand in hand with our own intuitive reason" ..but we ...for them... alien, strange, chaotic, a good movie..