Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Flowing in the Spirit of the LORD/YHWH, is the beginning of Wisdom...

page: 1
6
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join

posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 06:16 PM
link   
The phrase, "the Fear of the Lord" appears twenty-seven times, in the Old Testament. Here are a few fairly well known examples…




Proverbs 14:27
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, turning
a person from the snares of death.







Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of Wisdom,…







Proverbs 15:33
The fear of the LORD is instruction in Wisdom, and Humility goes before Honour.






Psalm 19:9
The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever.




The standard interpretation of the phrase “fear of the Lord/God” is that if we are afraid of God, we will receive Wisdom etc…but according to how this phrase is used in Hebrew language, this interpretation isn’t correct…

When two nouns are placed together, they are in a “construct state”, which means the two words, should be considered as one, in that they are linked/related to each other.




The Word of the LORD (Genesis 15:1)

The Voice of the LORD (Genesis 3:8)

The Face of the LORD (Genesis 4:16)

The Name of the LORD (Genesis 4:26)

The Eyes of the LORD (Genesis 6:8)

The Garden of the LORD (Genesis 13:10)

The Angel of the LORD (Genesis 16:7)

The Way of the LORD (Genesis 18:19)

The Mount of the LORD (Genesis 22:14)



Above, is a list of construct phrases. The second word in the construct is "the LORD"(YHWH). Every instance of the first word in the construct, (i.e. Word, Voice, Face etc…) belongs to the second word of the construct (LORD).

The same exact same, “construct state” in the phrases above, is also found in the phrases, “the fear of the LORD”

What this amounts to, is that the word "fear" in the phrase "the fear of the Lord" is not talking about our fear; The “fear” is an attribute of Lord i.e. it belongs to the LORD, just like the words “Face” and the “Voice”, belong to the LORD, in the other verses above.

Of course, God does not "fear" anything, so we need to take a closer look at the Ancient Hebrew, to try and understand it’s meaning.




Genesis 3:10
And he said, I heard your voice in the garden and
I feared (yarah) because I was naked and I hid
myself.






Deuteronomy 6:13
You will revere (yarah) Yahweh your Elohiym and
you will serve him and in his name you will swear.



The standard conclusion from these two verses above, is that the Hebrew word “yarah” has only two different meanings, i.e. fear and reverence. But again, this wouldn’t make any sense, as pointed out above, because the word “Fear”, is an attribute of the LORD.

The noun “yirah” is derived from the verb yarah. Yirah is the parent root of yarah or yara. The literal concrete meaning of yara, is a “flowing of the gut,” which can be applied to “fear” or “reverence.” But the word can also mean, “to flow” because of it’s relation to the words, water and rain…




Word Origin

a prim. Root

Definition

to shoot, pour

NASB Translation

archers shot (1), shooting (1), watered (1).



yara




Or (2 Chr. 26:15) yara; {yaw-raw'}; a primitive root; properly, to flow as water (i.e. To rain); transitively, to lay or throw (especially an arrow, i.e. To shoot); figuratively, to point out (as if by aiming the finger), to teach -- (+) archer, cast, direct, inform, instruct, lay, shew, shoot, teach(-er,-ing), through…



yarah or yara

We know that this “flowing” is an attribute of the LORD/YHWH. So the question that naturally arises is, what is flowing out of the LORD, like water…that gives us Wisdom…?




Exodus 31:3
…and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills.




By comparing the verse above, we can see that it is the "Spirit of God/LORD”, which gives us Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding. The Hebrew word for "Spirit", is "ruach", literally meaning the "Wind", which also has flowing characteristics.

I think the exact same meaning can be applied to the word “fear”. It should really mean “Spirit” as well, because of the similar parallels, between “water” and “wind”, which both have flowing characteristics.


A similar parallel, is also hinted at in the Proverbs 14:27 and Psalm 19:9, with the use of the phrases “is pure, enduring forever” and “is a fountain of life” etc… There’s also this verse below, which confirms that the Spirit has water characteristics.




John 7:37-39
On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.



God is not meant to feared at all IMO, and all the verses which start with “The fear of the Lord” etc…should really read as followings…

“Flowing in the Spirit of the LORD/YHWH, is the beginning of Wisdom…”

Or put another way…

(Receiving) “The Spirit of the LORD/YHWH, is the beginning of Wisdom…”

I’ve pretty much paraphrased from the sources below, to try to make it easier to see and understand, with a few of my own thoughts thrown in.

More information, can be found at the sources below…

Ancient Hebrew Research Center

thelivingwords.ancient-hebrew


- JC




posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 06:24 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


"Wouldn't "reverence" of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" be more appropriate?




posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 06:35 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


Beautiful and thank you for sharing with us, I fear god because of my shame at my flaw's but would find a bible rewritten with this probably more accurate interpretation would likely be more easily digested to they whom seek him and it could help many find him whom have lost there way as it was alway's a difficult proposition to fear the one you are trying to see as a father and love as a father as fear and love are opposed.
I thank you for this.



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 06:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 






Originally posted by Akragon
"Wouldn't "reverence" of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" be more appropriate?



Well, I know what you’re saying, in terms of coming to believe in God; there is a certain amount of reverence there when we come to learn about God… and is very applicable in the verse below…




Deuteronomy 6:13
You will revere (yarah) Yahweh your Elohiym and
you will serve him and in his name you will swear.



But…

In the verses starting with, “Fear of the LORD, is the beginning of Wisdom etc…”…the word “fear”, is an attribute of the LORD, it’s not our “fear”. So in those particular cases, it would be the same, even if they used the word "reverence", because God doesn’t “fear” himself, or “revere” himself either.

Which means, because the first “word”, is an attributed of the LORD, it has to be something, which comes from the LORD himself. IMO the word “fear” in those particular verses really means “The Spirit of God”

Although of course, when one receives the Spirit of God, there will be a deep inner reverence, to receiving it; But in terms of the verses, it’s an attribute of the LORD himself i.e. it comes directly from God.


- JC
edit on 2-3-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 07:06 PM
link   
I don't fear god. I give him the respect he deserves and try to respect his creations so why would I fear him. I mean if I was causing the destruction of the earth just to have an easy life, I would be worried. If I was causing people a lot of grief because I was overpricing goods and services that people need to survive, I would be worried. If I was deceiving people a lot, I would be worried.

Heck, I haven't done much of that in my past and am trying to do less now. I do not consider material things as anything other than reminders of my past now. At least I have quit wasting my money on stupid junk that people consider necessary nowadays.



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 07:10 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I suppose my issue is with this YHWH character... one which anyone would rightly fear...

I hold no reference to this YHWH... as im sure you know...

Interesting though... just today I was reading Eugnostos the Blessed... Found here if you're interested

It seems to reiterate Secret John in that "God" has no name... which reads as follows

"He has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another. He is unnameable"

I would apply this rule to YHWH, a name made by men, who follow a creation of men...

Just my two cents of course...




posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 07:24 PM
link   

Joecroft
We know that this “flowing” is an attribute of the LORD/YHWH. So the question that naturally arises is, what is flowing out of the LORD, like water…that gives us Wisdom…?

By comparing the verse above, we can see that it is the "Spirit of God/LORD”, which gives us Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding. The Hebrew word for "Spirit", is "ruach", literally meaning the "Wind", which also has flowing characteristics.

I think the exact same meaning can be applied to the word “fear”. It should really mean “Spirit” as well, because of the similar parallels, between “water” and “wind”, which both have flowing characteristics.

God is not meant to feared at all IMO, and all the verses which start with “The fear of the Lord” etc…should really read as followings…

“Flowing in the Spirit of the LORD/YHWH, is the beginning of Wisdom…”
Or put another way…(Receiving) “The Spirit of the LORD/YHWH, is the beginning of Wisdom…”


As 'God' in the Hebrew Qabalah Tree of Life 'Yahweh' or #1 "Kether" state (cough/ choke actually of pre-dynastic EGYPTIAN origin); "out of nothingness" (having a value but is not yet manifested) emanates the first state of existence with/as the primal source (creator) or UNITY; of all below it (sephiroths). WISDOM would be the #2 Sephiroth, on the Tree of Life called Chokmah; a fragment of the primal energy Kether would be any defined identity as it is in the state of duality or polarity. It is a reflection of 'God/Yahweh' or any specific aspect of. It is the conditions to separate in opposites and is yang, Male. To have wisdom something must understand it which would be #3 Sephiroth called Binah the other polarity which is Female and is also known as UNDERSTANDING. This is the third integral expression of Kether (it being in a state of perfection); both are complimentary expressions of Yahweh (I suppose but doubt this is the ONE in absolute character but rather a HIJACKED IDENTITY) in its perfection. Binah is yin/female; Chokmah yang/male. So, why does one have to fear God; you make your case as to why there is nothing to fear; but you are only addressing the Male aspect Wisdom/Chokmah; forgetting all about the balance of the polarity, Understanding/Binah Female. To understand or reconnect with "Unity" or Kether you have to start at the bottom of the tree at Gods heaviest physicality, Malkuth #10 Sephiroph, Matter (kingdom of man) and work your way up, you cant understand the face of God starting from its viewpoint because it is 'NOTHINGNESS", a binary energy field of 1s and 0s, but having the potencial to create 'SOMETHING'. Yahweh was obviously a Demigod poser just like Abraham/Poseidon (whom presumably) spoke to Moses.
edit on 2-3-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 09:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 






Originally posted by Akragon

Interesting though... just today I was reading Eugnostos the Blessed... Found here if you're interested

It seems to reiterate Secret John in that "God" has no name... which reads as follows

"He has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another. He is unnameable"

I would apply this rule to YHWH, a name made by men, who follow a creation of men...



According to Moses, God did name Himself as, "I am that I am" or "I shall be what I shall be” etc…

I think they were putting a name to the “Unnameable one” or “Ineffable one” and knew the true meaning behind it. Personally, I think they’re describing the one true God, as being Spirit…

“The Zohar”, is a Kabbalistic book, which expands on the mysteries, of the five books of Moses. Which tells me that Moses, must have been aware of Kabbalistic knowledge. The cabbalists also just so happened to see the Tetragrammaton “YHWH” as meaning, the name of “Being/Existence”…




Originally posted by Akragon
I suppose my issue is with this YHWH character... one which anyone would rightly fear...

I hold no reference to this YHWH... as im sure you know...


Yes, I’m aware of your position, I've seen many of your past posts…


Jesus shows the true character of God, in the NT, and it’s nothing like the evil deeds committed by God in the OT, as I’m sure your well aware of.

But I personally think others weren’t privy to the secret knowledge of God. And they wrongly attributed evil things about God, in various books of the prophets. Evil things which had nothing to do with God at all, because they simply didn’t know, or understand the true knowledge of God, and that God is Spirit.

But I think those higher up in power knew this, and that it served the purposes of those in power, by making people think God was some kind of evil entity, that would send you to Hell, or rain fire down on you, if you stepped out of line etc… These falsities about God, aloud men to keep people in fear of God, rather than allowing people to come to know and find God through the Spirit. Jesus came to change all that IMO…

This is why Jesus told the Pharisees they were following their Father the devil, because they just weren’t following God, it’s also the reason why Jesus quotes certain righteous prophets, because he knew they WERE following the one true God.

This is also why Jesus said to the Pharisees, this below…




Matthew 23:13
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.



Contrary to the end verse in John 7:39 “…Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.” (which I deliberately left out of my OP)… The Spirit was being poured out, even in the Old Testament times IMO. Jesus just wanted everyone to come to know God, so that all men could have access to the Spirit of God, rather than just a select few etc…

- JC
edit on 2-3-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 09:22 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I suppose the question I tend to ponder is whether or not the OT god IS an actual entity, or man twisting the words given to them... or if they were actuall given at all in the first place...

I think a lot of people imagine the Israelites, moses, and Most of the OT characters as shepards or simple folk... they were quite clearly warlords... not just civilians.

Personally I think there was brief flashes of the true God in the OT, but God was mostly unknown to man until Jesus came... And Most of what he actually said was likely lost or destroyed as "heretic" material...




posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 09:29 PM
link   
I don't fear imaginary things.

That's silly.

I did fear those aliens in the first alien movie, when they were like brussel sprouts as eggs. Face huggers scare me. But then I realised it was all made up. And now I am not afraid of brussel sprouts any more.

you too can live a good, decent, moral life without fear of fictitious entities. And you don't need a man written book, movie, song or tale to tell you how to do it, either.




posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 10:40 PM
link   
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



First of all, that was quite an opening post; your knowledge of the Qabalah Tree of Life, seems fairly extensive…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
As 'God' in the Hebrew Qabalah Tree of Life 'Yahweh' or #1 "Kether" state (cough/ choke actually of pre-dynastic EGYPTIAN origin);


“EGYPTIAN origin”…hmm, You mean, the “Winged Sun/Disc” with two lions standing guard, on either side…?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
It is a reflection of 'God/Yahweh' or any specific aspect of. It is the conditions to separate in opposites and is yang, Male. To have wisdom something must understand it which would be #3 Sephiroth called Binah the other polarity which is Female and is also known as UNDERSTANDING.


Why is the Female aspect/polarity known as Understanding…?

In other words, why can’t I know the Binah, and then understand it through the Chokmah yang/male…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Binah is yin/female; Chokmah yang/male. So, why does one have to fear God; you make your case as to why there is nothing to fear; but you are only addressing the Male aspect Wisdom/Chokmah; forgetting all about the balance of the polarity, Understanding/Binah Female.


I haven’t forgotten that aspect, it’s in my Avatar lol just thought it was best left out for now…

I’m simply trying to show, that in the first part of the phrase “the fear of the Lord”, that the word “fear” is an attribute of the LORD, and has nothing to do with fear, and that the word “fear” itself, is closer to the word “Spirit”…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
To understand or reconnect with "Unity" or Kether you have to start at the bottom of the tree at Gods heaviest physicality, Malkuth #10 Sephiroph, Matter (kingdom of man) and work your way up,…



How do we even know that “Qabalah Tree of Life” is correct…? Shouldn’t it have 13 points instead, similar to that of the “flower of life”…?


- JC



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 10:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 






Originally posted by Akragon
Personally I think there was brief flashes of the true God in the OT, but God was mostly unknown to man until Jesus came... And Most of what he actually said was likely lost or destroyed as "heretic" material...


Well, Jesus quotes quite a number of the Old Testament prophets, so He must consider them to be righteous and to be following God etc…

But I agree with you, in that the true knowledge of God was largely unknown; And like I was saying in my last post, the true God was kept secret, by those in power IMO…

I also think, like you said, that some material that Jesus spoke, was lost, and others rejected as heretical, in order to keep the negative Old Testament ideas about God and incorrect traditions of men, intact, within standard Christian theology.

Just my opinion of course…

- JC



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 11:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I believe you like Paul as well if im not mistaken, and you'll notice both Jesus and Paul refer to "a god of this world"...

This also coincides with the "gnostic" demiurge... which was touted in different versions through out the gnostic sects of Christianity...

So again, it is to figure out IF this is an actual entity or not...

they seemed to believe it was, or is...




posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 11:37 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


YHWH is sometimes translated as The existing ONE.

Either you are doing something right and then there is no need at all to fear god:s judgement or you doing something you should not and therefor by your own action will have to repair that one way or another. Justice based on the golden rule is in a way a beautiful thing. You get exactly what you deserve be it good or bad.



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 11:43 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 


Would not call god unnameable just a bit undefinable without knowing every thing that is on all level of being. Since I am a bit lacking in over dimensional senses I cannot say "what is" if I have not experienced it and even then it can still be an ego-projection or clouded by view/opinion.
edit on 2-3-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 11:49 PM
link   
reply to post by Akragon
 






Originally posted by Akragon
I believe you like Paul as well if im not mistaken, and you'll notice both Jesus and Paul refer to "a god of this world"...


I believe Paul was most likely a Gnostic Christian, but that most of the writings attributed to him, are not his, and that the early Church used only parts of his writings, and subverted and edited the others, partly because they miss-understood large aspects of Christian Gnosticism, or maybe they did it deliberately etc…

I think this is the key reason why some of the writings attributed to Paul, seem to go against Jesus own words one minute, and then the next minute, they seem to be in alignment with Jesus.




Originally posted by Akragon
This also coincides with the "gnostic" demiurge... which was touted in different versions through out the gnostic sects of Christianity...

So again, it is to figure out IF this is an actual entity or not...

they seemed to believe it was, or is...


Well, the standard demiurge theory, is one of an evil entity masquerading as the true God. But there are so many different aspects of the demiurge theory…it’s a huge subject in itself…and probably best discussed on another thread.

Whether there was a physical evil entity masquerading, as the one true God, which people wrongly believed to be God; We know from a few verses in the Old Testament, and Jesus words, that God is Spirit, and not a physical entity.

- JC



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 11:58 PM
link   

Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Why is the Female aspect/polarity known as Understanding…?

In other words, why can’t I know the Binah, and then understand it through the Chokmah yang/male…?



I think they are used as an idea that the female aspect is supposed to see the whole and unite parts while the masculine aspect is seen as separating things into part to understand each individual part.

I do not 100% agree with this female aspect vs masculine aspect since all human more or less have this ability regardless of sex.

It is when both the understanding of the part and the whole that you gain understanding of how something works. Until then you only make assumptions/guesses. I do think that many people are very bad at seeing the larger picture and at times cannot see how one thing affect the other or choose to be blind to the effects.



posted on Mar, 2 2014 @ 11:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I am more of the opinion that YHWH was an evilish character... but that is not all gnostic thought...

Look into Valintinus and his thoughts on the subject...




posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 12:19 AM
link   

Joecroft

I believe Paul was most likely a Gnostic Christian, but that most of the writings attributed to him, are not his, and that the early Church used only parts of his writings, and subverted and edited the others, partly because they miss-understood large aspects of Christian Gnosticism, or maybe they did it deliberately etc…

I think this is the key reason why some of the writings attributed to Paul, seem to go against Jesus own words one minute, and then the next minute, they seem to be in alignment with Jesus.



Maybe. I think of Paul as a wolf in sheep clothing but cannot be sure if it is he who is manipulative or the ones who said he said it. It does not really matter today if it is Paul or people of power speaking untruthfully of Paul. What matters is that who ever did the manipulation got many people to believe the manipulation even today.

I was in fact very angry and hateful towards the thought of Jesus until I did realize that the manipulation had occurred and that the Christian bible is filled with contradictions that seem to mean two sides who are opposed each other are both trying to manipulate the reader to their side. Is it any wonder people get confused by the bible.
edit on 3-3-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 12:27 AM
link   

Akragon
reply to post by Joecroft
 


I suppose my issue is with this YHWH character... one which anyone would rightly fear...

I hold no reference to this YHWH... as im sure you know...

Interesting though... just today I was reading Eugnostos the Blessed... Found here if you're interested

It seems to reiterate Secret John in that "God" has no name... which reads as follows

"He has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another. He is unnameable"

I would apply this rule to YHWH, a name made by men, who follow a creation of men...

Just my two cents of course...



It is true that the Ultimate Creator of this Universe is "unnameable" by human standards. The Creator does have a name, but unpronounceable by the human tongue and current level of consciousness. YHWH or Yahweh or Jehovah is NOT the Ultimate Creator and was named by the Jews over 10,000 years ago. God has many names, both created by man and true names that describe God's true character. His name changes as you go up higher in understanding and consciousness. But if you are speaking about the Ultimate Creator of this Universe, then it is not our time to know his name. Because for doing so, you would limit His power by narrowing it to a human concept such as a "name." If you want to call Him by anything at this point, I would call Him: Greatness in Love, Greatness in Wisdom, and Greatness in Power.

But speaking at our level of spiritual awareness, we shouldn't jump ahead by just mentioning the Ultimate Creator. We should also realize that God is the manifestations of life in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th dimensions. Therefore, God is also Masters Jesus, Gautama, Melchizedek, Krishna, Quan Yin, Sanat Kumara, El Moriah, etc. God is Archangels Michael, Gabriel, Phanuel, Zadkiel, Raphael, etc. God is the stranger you meet in the marketplace, the little boy or girl at the restaurant, the 90-year old man sitting at the bus stop, the cute little puppy prancing and playing with her bone, and even the palm tree swaying in the wind. These are forms of God, yet we are all ONE. So next time someone asks you, what is God's name? Point to their heart and say, God's name is Trismegistus or thrice Great--Love, Wisdom, Power, and it is within you.

edit on 3/3/2014 by ctophil because: (no reason given)






top topics



 
6
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join