A Solution To The Ukrainian Crisis

I have been watching events with great alarm. I am extremely worried that frankly this could end up with a huge bang and flash or rather several hundred of them anyway. Russia sees Crimea as the British see Gibraltar and Cyprus. They have had historical ties to the place dating back to the 19th century. So, here is what I propose. Ukraine is knee deep in debt. Russia wants the Black Fleet seaports and Crimea. Putin is a snake oil businessman and probably in cahoots with the Mafia. SO do a deal deal. Russia can buy the Crimea back off the Ukraine in a land purchase. Ukraine would then be able to settle it's debts. Everyone is happy and there is no loss of face. Can this work? After all the USA bought Alaska and there was the Loiusiana Purchase.

Thoughts anyone?

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


Im really ignorant to the history of the area but I know Kiev was once Russia's capital if I recall right....there is a lot of history and ties to russia and I think it would be possible for a split...a East and West Ukraine etc...some kind of divide.

This may come off sadistic or wrong but...we have been on the edge of WW3 since the end of WW2. If its going to happen...id rather happen in my life time...we go to war because politicians some how fail...whether its money...land...resources...they fail. The world has some of the worst leaders ever in its current time. Might as well just get it over with it so we can try to do a clean slate.

Wirral Bagpuss
I have been watching events with great alarm. I am extremely worried that frankly this could end up with a huge bang and flash or rather several hundred of them anyway. Russia sees Crimea as the British see Gibraltar and Cyprus. They have had historical ties to the place dating back to the 19th century. So, here is what I propose. Ukraine is knee deep in debt. Russia wants the Black Fleet seaports and Crimea. Putin is a snake oil businessman and probably in cahoots with the Mafia. SO do a deal deal. Russia can buy the Crimea back off the Ukraine in a land purchase. Ukraine would then be able to settle it's debts. Everyone is happy and there is no loss of face. Can this work? After all the USA bought Alaska and there was the Loiusiana Purchase.

Thoughts anyone?

Well yeh but why should Russia have to buy it, its been basically Russian forever, how come it ever got incorporated into the Ukraine in the first place. Its now one of those dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situations . Technically on the face of it, Russia has invaded a sovereign country. Which happens to be historically Russian with Russian inhabitants, If a War takes off over this cock up there's no hope for anyone.

anonentity

Wirral Bagpuss
I have been watching events with great alarm. I am extremely worried that frankly this could end up with a huge bang and flash or rather several hundred of them anyway. Russia sees Crimea as the British see Gibraltar and Cyprus. They have had historical ties to the place dating back to the 19th century. So, here is what I propose. Ukraine is knee deep in debt. Russia wants the Black Fleet seaports and Crimea. Putin is a snake oil businessman and probably in cahoots with the Mafia. SO do a deal deal. Russia can buy the Crimea back off the Ukraine in a land purchase. Ukraine would then be able to settle it's debts. Everyone is happy and there is no loss of face. Can this work? After all the USA bought Alaska and there was the Loiusiana Purchase.

Thoughts anyone?

Well yeh but why should Russia have to buy it, its been basically Russian forever, how come it ever got incorporated into the Ukraine in the first place. Its now one of those dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situations . Technically on the face of it, Russia has invaded a sovereign country. Which happens to be historically Russian with Russian inhabitants, If a War takes off over this cock up there's no hope for anyone.

Really ? A part of Russia forever ? Uh...no it has not been a part of Russia. Crimea was and has been its own entity long before the Russians and has enjoyed autonomous rule of itself as a part of Ukraine. Russia never owned it nor did they pay for it with other than through the use of force by war in the 1920's. Bloody war at that where many were killed or gulag-ed when they failed to agree with the occupiers. Pretty much the same deal with Ukraine....the bottom line is both should be able to enjoy rule of themselves with out Eastern or Western powers that be telling them otherwise. I'm no expert on history but you would most assuredly do well with some reading to catch up.

The bottom line is no one is ever going to be happy campers in this region, in Crimea it is largely made up of ethnic Russians who happen to be Muslim, not exactly going to work well with Mr. Putin, and the Ukraine is made of its own people and it would seem the worst thing to do is another "wall" situation between two countries and a cold war between the rest of the super powers over who is going to control what...its a mess

reply to post by DJMSN



You mention 1920 the Gulags etc. I thought the British fought the Crimean War against the Russians, "Charge of the light Brigade" etc which puts the Crimea in Russian hands in the late eighteen hundreds. Russia needs the all weather port. There seems to be a constant baiting of Russia, missiles around the border etc. Almost like if you keep poking the dog it will bite, and then you will have the excuse to put it down. America has invaded and generally pissed around with other countries domestic policies for decades. In fact before the second world war its intelligence agency was a joke, but after taking on the Nazis via operation Paperclip, we have the wonderful CIA that has done nothing to dispel the fact that it still embraces the concepts of its founding fathers, and for all purposes seems to operate a foreign policy as right wing as the third Reich, which is no wonder. I'm not saying Russia has been any better, but the fact it needs an all weather port, is because its been pushed to it in the first place. The fact is if things get hot, Then nukes will fly because the Russian Army isn't up to major invasions.
This has the potential to get very bad, but if it does' it wont just be the fault of Russia, all it will take is a few Ukrainians to snipe a few Russians and it will escalate into nightmare scenario. I guess the map of Europe never was a static thing, and things have been cushy for rather a long time.

reply to post by anonentity


Russia already has the ports...they have a 25 year lease beyond the current lease which expires in 2017. So in effect Russian troops have already been in Crimea with the Ukrainian government being compensated for the privilege. I agree that this is a situation which could get ugly very quickly, I don't believe it will as largely the Russians are supported in the area as it is made up of a Russian ethnic population.

"Under agreements signed with Ukraine in 2010, the Russian military can continue to use Sevastopol until 2042, with an option of extending the lease to 2047."

www.ft.com...

This is pretty much tantamount to the US having troops in Germany, Cuba, and many other places around the globe, some where we have not been invited. As of now, the current leader of the Ukraine, elected and in the past not so Russian friendly until recently is the one who is calling the shots until a new election. Right now, I would rather see Russian troops in the area to stop the civil unrest before it boils over into an Us and Them situation between the two factions in Crimea and the Ukrainian mainland. The latest report is 6000 troops which is in my opinion an excessive amount however they do have a port in Sevastopol, which is home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet which undoubtedly is very important to Putin and it will be protected at all cost which is why I agree that this could be very ugly, however I do not believe it will spark anything soon....it will boil and simmer for awhile with lots of saber rattling on the whole worlds part.

So Russia should be able to threaten to take by force anything they want, and then have it given to them?

I think not.

This does not look like an out of control confrontation yet; but only a continued polarization that precedes a major war (world war).

The West sits on critical technologies like computing and pharma that it considers can give it overwhelming advantage in a world war.

However a lot of these technologies have leaked to Asia over time, and Asians have built their own industrial base and research labs.

The West will win as long as Asia is divided. However a strong unity of Asians can and will defeat the West.

This particular conflict is a slow roast. Nothing spectacular will happen soon. The West does not want to go to war in light of their own fragile economies.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Yea they are coming off as aggressive bullies. We all still play the silly border game so they should have to also. OR maybe we do away with the border game?

Sadly there is not meant to be a solution to the Ukrainian crisis, it is a distraction while all of the other cards are being lined up. We do not hear anymore about Syria, Egypt, Turkey, Venezuela, NSA scandals, example being the latest Snowden leak about Government paid schills infiltrating websites to discredit people and spread disinfo, simply confirming what many of us already knew. No more on the phillipines, or the island dispute between China and Japan. It is all smoke and mirrors, I mean come now we are getting ever closer to the BRICS taking over the global economy which is inevitalbe since they are not FIAT, and for the banksters that are desperately trying to stop it war is the best possible way to keep people in a state of fear. I mean how many people in Merica know about BRICS and what it means for their cushy little reserve currency.

I hope by some miracle there is an agreement to avoid anything catastrophic, for the poor people of Ukraine are simply being played by the media of the world and while we are all distracted who knows what is truly going on. Control of the information is our worst enemy, and this is how they do it.

OccamsRazor04
So Russia should be able to threaten to take by force anything they want, and then have it given to them?

I think not.

would you find it more palatable if they did it by proxy. Like America did in Afghanistan in the 80's

elementalgrove
Sadly there is not meant to be a solution to the Ukrainian crisis, it is a distraction while all of the other cards are being lined up. We do not hear anymore about Syria, Egypt, Turkey, Venezuela, NSA scandals, example being the latest Snowden leak about Government paid schills infiltrating websites to discredit people and spread disinfo, simply confirming what many of us already knew. No more on the phillipines, or the island dispute between China and Japan. It is all smoke and mirrors

EXACTLY!
X

reply to post by elementalgrove


Ukraine has been systematically sabotaged by Western powers.

The latest government change in Ukraine is the biggest example of that.

It is not yet a world war, but the events are piling up in that direction.

Why would Russia buy Crimea when they already control it completely?

The only "solution" to this is facing the ugly truth: Ukraine is done as a country. It cannot survive. Split it apart, make the people decide where they want to belong. If the people want to be Russian, let them. If western Ukraine want to join the EU, let them. All Russia, EU and Ukraine (I still have no idea WTF America has to do with this conflict) need to do is sit down at a table and agree to three things: Respect the will of the people, allow people to move across any new borders at will and stop the pointless saber rattling over perceived "nationality" in the region.

Its the 21th century ffs. I wonder if we wont see a severe conflict between pre-internet cavemen and technological internationals in the near future because the former always seem to be heading down the route to killing us all. Hm. Well actually that would make a great story for a game.

reply to post by merka

Yes, I've been arguing for this kind of compromise.
America has been making compromise more difficult by taking public stances from which it is hard to draw back without losing face.

Russia's already in the process of diverting it's energy investments in Ukraine to bypass it through the Southstream and Nordstream lines. The referendum being voted on tomorrow has been delegitimized specifically by the U.S., and called illegal. However, territorial integrity isn't the real question because it has no relation to internal politics.

Source

«The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations». Its content is as follows, «Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues».