New Ukraine Navy Chief 'Defects'

Newly appointed head of Ukrainian Navy swears allegiance to Crimea in presence of its unrecognised prime minister

New Ukraine Navy Chief 'Defects'

Not much on it at the moment, but apparently the newly appointed Navy Chief has "defected", which probably confirms earlier reports of individual ships "defecting". I wonder if the Navy is majority "Russian" ethnics and it does make you wonder how much of the Army and Air Force are "loyal".

Here is a live feed, updated every 90 seconds on the Ukraine situation guys.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

New video of kerry this morning.

www.youtube.com...

think tonight the ukrain army will take over the rebel gov.

And now from the Telegraph link.

18.11 UKRAINE FIRES NAVY CHIEF, LAUNCHES TREASON CASE AGAINST HIM FOR REFUSING TO FIGHT RUSSIANS, SURRENDERING SEVASTOPOL HQ -DEPUTY SECRETARY OF SECURITY COUNCIL

Their capitals, not mine.

Ukraine has 64,750 soldiers compared to Russia's 285,000

That was of yesterday, I wonder what that figure will be tomorrow and the days after

If he refused orders to fight, does that imply the new Ukrainian government is actualy trying to order its army heads to declare war on Russia??

LOL, thats not happening, thankfully there are some people of sound mind in the Ukrainian or should we say Crimean Army

I saw another report earlier of a Ukrainian Frigate, returning from exercise under a Russian flag, see below:

Ukraine’s Navy flagship, the Hetman Sahaidachny frigate, has reportedly refused to follow orders from Kiev, and come over to Russia’s side and is returning home after taking part in NATO operation in the Gulf of Aden flying the Russian naval flag.

There has been conflicting information on where exactly the vessel is, but a Russian senator has confirmed to Izvestia daily that the frigate defected to the Russian side.

rt.com...

Not looking good for the new "Government" is it.

Britguy
I saw another report earlier of a Ukrainian Frigate, returning from exercise under a Russian flag, see below:

Ukraine’s Navy flagship, the Hetman Sahaidachny frigate, has reportedly refused to follow orders from Kiev, and come over to Russia’s side and is returning home after taking part in NATO operation in the Gulf of Aden flying the Russian naval flag.

There has been conflicting information on where exactly the vessel is, but a Russian senator has confirmed to Izvestia daily that the frigate defected to the Russian side.

rt.com...

Not looking good for the new "Government" is it.

edit on 2-3-2014 by Britguy because: (no reason given)

To be fair, this new "government" in the Crimea is as legitimate to the one in Kiev. At least the one in Kiev is approved by the Parliament that was properly elected though

zarzelius
New video of kerry this morning.

www.youtube.com...

edit on 2-3-2014 by zarzelius because: (no reason given)

I find it pretty funny how Kerry is trying to look all stern and such. All the while knowing Putin will blow him off, just like all the other times Putin ignored him and the US admin.

Any sanctions would be useless and pretty much ignored by everyone.

This is pretty much the way I see the situation at the moment between the West and Russia. (Warning! NSFW)

reply to post by stumason


The government has opened treason charges against him.

2 days into the job and already a treason charge... nice.

Great start to the new Ukrainian goverment

reply to post by stumason


The government in Crimea is actually in the wrong when it comes to what their actual authority is. Russia has even talked about that issue, noting that Crimea does in fact answer to the Federal government in Kiev. They got around that with their "ethnic Russians in danger" bs.

Semi Autonomous is the key word that people seem to be translating as something its not.

Britguy
I saw another report earlier of a Ukrainian Frigate, returning from exercise under a Russian flag, see below:

Ukraine’s Navy flagship, the Hetman Sahaidachny frigate, has reportedly refused to follow orders from Kiev, and come over to Russia’s side and is returning home after taking part in NATO operation in the Gulf of Aden flying the Russian naval flag.

There has been conflicting information on where exactly the vessel is, but a Russian senator has confirmed to Izvestia daily that the frigate defected to the Russian side.

According to the wiki article on the Ukrainian Navy in 2009 only the frigate Hetman Sahaidachniy was capable of long endurance missions after years of poor maintenance - it is the only frigate listed and is an ex-soviet Krivak Class.

The article also points out that several ships of the former Black Sea Fleet hoisted Ukrainian flags in the 1990's and sailed to Odessa - considered to be mutiny at het time and in 1 case leading to an armed chase - so presumably there is enough loyalty to Ukraine to maintain some sort of fleet.

Also Ukraine has inherited the shipyards at Mikolyev (Nikolayev) - which has been the major ship building facility for Russia and the USSR since 1790, and they are planning on reviving the industry with plans to build a class of 4 Corvettes of Ukrainian design by 2021.

Aloysius the Gaul


Also Ukraine has inherited the shipyards at Mikolyev (Nikolayev) - which has been the major ship building facility for Russia and the USSR since 1790, and they are planning on reviving the industry with plans to build a class of 4 Corvettes of Ukrainian design by 2021.

edit on 2-3-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: quoet tag

I thought they were stony broke!
I'm sure the IMF has a loan for that too, with the usual strings attached of course!

We can expect some defections however, if Russia and their backers in Ukraine thought they had wide spread support in the military they would not have used Russian troops in Crimea. They would have used pro Russian troops that would be then backed by Russia. So it seems like the majority of Ukraines military is loyal. And as Ukraine has now called out its reserves their forces will end up just as large as Russian active forces even if only half the reserves showed up. If most of them show up they will out number the entire Russian active military.

reply to post by Britguy


Presumably they have a budget for their navy, Russian loans would have helped, and if they can actually build a few ships it might revive a major part of their economy, which would pay dividends for many years.

reply to post by MrSpad


Ukraine probably can't arm or even uniform all its reserves, and without a doubt they are less well equipped and trained than Russia's standing military.

however any actual invasion would drive Ukraine firmly to "the west" - although seizing the Donets basin would also deprive Ukraine of much of its economic base.

There are probably plenty of Crimeans and residents of the Donets who would fight against Ukraine with all the Russian nationalist BS that is being kicked up - but they are not organized and equipped - so it is much faster to use regular troops.

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MrSpad

 

Ukraine probably can't arm or even uniform all its reserves, and without a doubt they are less well equipped and trained than Russia's standing military.

Ukraine has been actively training with NATO and helping with Peacekeeping missions over the past ten years. They are, if not better trained than the Russian forces arrayed against them, but at least on par. I served alongside them in the MiddleEast. As well as Georgians.

But that said, it will still boil down to numbers of personnel and finances to sustain them.

reply to post by TDawgRex


They sent 13 officers to Afghanistan, 128 soldiers to Serbia, 277 troops to Liberia and a couple of handfuls each to a few other places.

that's not exactly going to tell you much about the capabilities of their military.

their army has 73,000 all ranks in service, still use T64 tanks (albeit many are the domestically upgraded version), a couple of hundred upgraded T80's and a handful of T84's

It might have as many as 1 million reserves for all branches.....and it might have gained itself some time for them to brush up on their training by calling them up early - they have 1300 T72's in reserve!!

40% of their army is conscript, 60% are "contract" soldiers - probably the best of the "contract soldiers" are reasonable.....but the conscripts are almost certainly undertrained like all ex-USSR conscripts, and the Russians have over 100,000 professional personnel - and they've made all their senior NCO's professional giving them better leadership than before.

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

They sent 13 officers to Afghanistan, 128 soldiers to Serbia, 277 troops to Liberia and a couple of handfuls each to a few other places.

that's not exactly going to tell you much about the capabilities of their military.

their army has 73,000 all ranks in service, still use T64 tanks (albeit many are the domestically upgraded version), a couple of hundred upgraded T80's and a handful of T84's

It might have as many as 1 million reserves for all branches.....and it might have gained itself some time for them to brush up on their training by calling them up early - they have 1300 T72's in reserve!!

40% of their army is conscript, 60% are "contract" soldiers - probably the best of the "contract soldiers" are reasonable.....but the conscripts are almost certainly undertrained like all ex-USSR conscripts, and the Russians have over 100,000 professional personnel - and they've made all their senior NCO's professional giving them better leadership than before.

The problem for both sides is the corruption. Soldiers exist on paper but, not in reality as the unit commander is pocketing the money, some with equipment, training, maintenance etc. Ukraine has managed some reforms as it tried to get into NATO before while Russia has tried twice and failed. For Ukraine it is about defending their homes, and defence with short lines of supply , while for the Russians it would have to be an offensive operation while at the same time securing its other borders in case of outside intervention and being prepared for internal revolt in the south again. The simple fact is for the first time its long history Russia just does not have the manpower advantage it used to have. Taking on Ukraine alone would be hard but, the risk of bringiing NATO and certain defeat is just great. Russia has made its move. Going any further would be a disaster for them.