Are you a psychological rapist?

Part of the issue with this, and in American society, is that it is extremely obvious that the male and female genders are really off-kilter with equality (and it definitely isn't just the female gender that suffers). Here, women are extremely objectified and sexualized to the point where the sexuality of a woman tends to be the selling point of a lot of things-- not the fact she's a human being with a mind and heart, feelings and thoughts. She's just a pleasantly looking body, and if she's not then there is very little attention that is paid to her. So many commercials flashing by the eyes of boys where a scantily clad woman clings to a man as if she was some sort of prize for him. A generation is being brought up with songs stacked upon songs where there is always a man who sings about women and parts of their bodies as if they are nothing more than some sort of conquest, something to physically acquire and that their worth in their eyes is basically based upon that; a woman can even have less value as a person in people's eyes because she has slept with a certain number of people whereas a man tends to be praised for how many were "scored". This is dehumanization, and because of this there are men who catcall, harass and sexually abuse women because consciously or subconsciously a woman becomes an object and not an actual being. A certain man raised in this society can forget that a woman's reactions to these advances are to be respected, that boundaries are to be respected. There are men who do not pay women the same consideration in these respects that they would end up feeling they deserve themselves (if the roles were reversed), because emphasis in society is not placed upon the fact that a woman is not automatically going to want it, that they are not something that is automatically programmed to pant over your supposed manliness. Some men's egos inflate to no end because of these issues and they can come to feel entitled, as well.


These things are actual issues and people truly suffer over them, and it is not a matter of feminists just making things up so that they can bring the male population to its demise. These are deep-rooted issues and if you do not think it is a symptom of high societal illness then you either have not experienced it the right way or you need to dig a little deeper.

I am an extremely fragile girl. When a man does this it is extremely terrifying because I don't know at that moment (if I'm alone, in a vulnerable position) if I'm going to live to see the next day. Many women experience this fear at least once in their lives, just for being a woman. It is an epidemic and that is never to be accepted.

Ok..i have taken over my husbands account on this instance..especially as he brought this up to my attention.....

I have been raped...it was a multiple rape too by an ex boyfriend and his mates...... thats as much as i want to say about that..but...

a whistle and such were initially a terrifying thing to experience..but then over time because of a wonderful psychologist and the support of my husband i realised that the cat calls etc were nothing more than a simple bit of fun and saw them for what they were.....a rather crude but wee bit of fun thats normally expressed between the sexes..... we women do it ..sometimes in an overtly way but mostly in a way that will challenge a man and his masculinity ..... and for me..this challange to a mans masculinity has taken a dark turn......

I'll simplify this by saying that initiating a sexual attraction from one person to another will start by ..humour... a gentle and startled acceptance and declaration of attraction.... ( for me a false and worrying one is ---> ) ..... a romantic approach using flowers ..poems and the like ... and the list can go on and on....

Women who feel this threatened really do need to grow up....stop being the virgin victim and truelly need to be a woman in control.... either see this behaviour for what it is and shrug it off.... or take control.... accept it for what it is or take control and see if the cat caller is man enough to back his cat calls with his intellectual challanges that as a woman i KNOW we're so bloody good at.....

Now imagine..as a woman..you meet a cat caller on the street..a builder say .... you challange his intellectual self and his humour...and he surprises you by his wit..... what to do ?.....

be careful of course..but never let your own self become weak and run away claiming psycho rape..... that my sisters is just fekin silly and weak.....

Anyways..this is a subject tooo big to follow through on a serious lvl ..... im just hoping i managed to get at least one point through.....

H......

There is a huge difference between men flirting or showing an interest in a woman and harassment, and there are definitely different types of stares.

I think that when some of the men here, and a few of the women are reading this, they are thinking the harmless non threatening type.

I think that a lot of the women here and a few of the men, are thinking the more sinister type. Maybe a small handful of women like this, but the majority do not, and it is definitely a turn off.

As a female gamer, I deal with this frequently. While it makes my uncomfortable, I don't feel threatened because it isn't in real life. However, when I experience it in real life, I am terrified. Because this type really does come across as "I would rape you in a dark alley if i could get away with it." instead of "I would like to take you out to dinner and get to know you better."

so when I woof whistle at my parrot, I am psychological raping him.

I should probably stop.

James1982

taoistguy

James1982

WilsonWilson
reply to post by ketsuko

 

I don't believe are being taught to behave like men, we are being taught that there is nothing wrong with being sexual, that we are not dirty because we have the same sexual urges as men. Getting rid of double standard used to control women's sexuality.
I do think there is an issue with promiscuity but from the viewpoint that it does lead people to have no concern with people only sex. Sex should be a means of sharing with others not taking what you want.
Rape is about taking what you want. Having power over another.
Wearing a short skirt and liking sex does not give anybody the right to rape you.
Trying to link women who act that way and being raped is trying to take the focus and blame set from the man and place it on the woman.

Wearing a short skirt does not give anyone the right to rape you, no.

Why did you say that? Did anyone in this thread suggest such a thing? no.

If a woman wears a short skirt, and goes out into public, don't complain about getting looked at. If I go out in public with a bananna in my pants, people will stare at my crotch. That's life.

Nobody has the right to touch you, or harass you, but you don't have the right to walk around public without getting looked at either, nobody does, man or woman.

there's a differnce to being looked at cos you have done something odd, compared to constantly being ogled and objectified an under the threat of violence.

What does "under the threat of violence" mean?

A man has the physical ability to overpower a woman, therefore it's assumed he will exercise that ability?

Do I have the same rights, if my girlfriend is cooking dinner and has a big knife in her hand? She has the physical ability, therefore I assume she will use it. Got it. Next time that happens I'll make sure to call 911 and report that I'm being raped.

you are eithyer being silly or not understanding my point.
women know that rape is a real possibility. them and many of their friends have been 'touched' inappropriately many times.
they have mor or less learnt who to avoid to escape any real danger, but not every woman is so lucky.
comments and certain behaviour from so0e men who don't respect the boundaries makes womem always have to be on guard.
i know i wouln't want to spend my life like that.

it's not that it's assumed he will exercise that ability, but it is possible- and if that possibility becomes actual then the end result is not nice.

taoistguy

James1982

taoistguy

James1982

WilsonWilson
reply to post by ketsuko

 

I don't believe are being taught to behave like men, we are being taught that there is nothing wrong with being sexual, that we are not dirty because we have the same sexual urges as men. Getting rid of double standard used to control women's sexuality.
I do think there is an issue with promiscuity but from the viewpoint that it does lead people to have no concern with people only sex. Sex should be a means of sharing with others not taking what you want.
Rape is about taking what you want. Having power over another.
Wearing a short skirt and liking sex does not give anybody the right to rape you.
Trying to link women who act that way and being raped is trying to take the focus and blame set from the man and place it on the woman.

Wearing a short skirt does not give anyone the right to rape you, no.

Why did you say that? Did anyone in this thread suggest such a thing? no.

If a woman wears a short skirt, and goes out into public, don't complain about getting looked at. If I go out in public with a bananna in my pants, people will stare at my crotch. That's life.

Nobody has the right to touch you, or harass you, but you don't have the right to walk around public without getting looked at either, nobody does, man or woman.

there's a differnce to being looked at cos you have done something odd, compared to constantly being ogled and objectified an under the threat of violence.

What does "under the threat of violence" mean?

A man has the physical ability to overpower a woman, therefore it's assumed he will exercise that ability?

Do I have the same rights, if my girlfriend is cooking dinner and has a big knife in her hand? She has the physical ability, therefore I assume she will use it. Got it. Next time that happens I'll make sure to call 911 and report that I'm being raped.

you are eithyer being silly or not understanding my point.
women know that rape is a real possibility. them and many of their friends have been 'touched' inappropriately many times.
they have mor or less learnt who to avoid to escape any real danger, but not every woman is so lucky.
comments and certain behaviour from so0e men who don't respect the boundaries makes womem always have to be on guard.
i know i wouln't want to spend my life like that.

it's not that it's assumed he will exercise that ability, but it is possible- and if that possibility becomes actual then the end result is not nice.

You realize you are talking about a physical act of rape . . . . the article is basically saying cat-calling and eye-ing a person up is equivalent to the physical act.

Do you think they are the same?

That is, do you think the psychological impact of being looked at by someone you may or may not know is the same as them forcibly penetrating?

Honestly the level this is being taken to is crazy, some ladies are okay with being "checked out" when they are feeling "sexy" and confident, but the next day they don't feel that way and those same looks become psychological rape. Basically it comes across as ladies (or those who identify as ladies so as not to infuriate those gender studies clowns) expect others to read their mind and know what will or will not upset them at a given point in time.

As I said earlier women will say very similar things to each and the only difference is that the man (in this case) is unaware (usually) of the psychological rape being perpetrated against him.

Do you think the rape occurs if the person is unaware (ie does not hear the cat call or notice the person looking at them) they are being raped?

-FBB

50 shades of....Biggest selling deviant Sex Manual since De Sade...And who do you find reads it....Woman...who do you find keeps it at number 1 on most good bookstore shelves...Woman. Women do a perfectly good job at objectifying themselves..

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Took me a bit but found it finally...the post where someone was apparently trying to compare quietly perusing a book of erotica to hanging out of car windows and trying to get lucky with the soccer moms in the grocery store. I knew I had seen that a few pages back.

So what I am curious about is, how could the act of female people reading a book possibly get twisted into somehow "objectifying themselves" and thereby inviting the kind of degradation that both women and men are complaining about per the subject matter presented in the OP? If you're saying that reading porn (erotica, it's an art form that uses imagination and creativity to describe the story...there aren't pictures...so not really porn but you get my meaning) presumably in a private space; not saying, gesturing, insulting or intimidating anyone but minding their own business somehow justifies getting treated like a prized hog at a county fair every time she/he ventures out into the world, I am afraid you are sadly misguided. My grandmother would have told you "that's crazy talk".

First women went through having zero rights as human beings, then there was the suffrage movement, then there was the fight for equal pay, and we were told all that time that we were not being given that equality because women can't do as much work, therefore the men deserved more money, and all the guys complained about women being so "girly"...I think "high maintenence" is the term for it now...and we had it crammed down our throats that we were pathetic, weak and helpless so that prompted us to prove the guys wrong, that we are strong and fearless and brave just like guys...in fact, far more so in a lot of instances...childbirth, for instance. Our bodies nurture life, deliver life into the world, feed that life...and a huge chunk of the population are working mothers as well, so it takes an awful lot of stamina and strength to pull off such a juggling act. And if a hard working, intelligent, polite young mom decides to take a day off from diapers and laundry and wear a short skirt out at the mall, she shouldn't be automatically assumed to be fair game simply because she wanted to look nice that day. That is just ridiculous. And insulting. And unbelievably arrogant too...men actually flatter themselves quite a lot judging from the responses I've seen...what could possibly motivate a man to think that women dress up and look feminine and sexy for the sole purpose of impressing some stranger so much that he starts acting like an out-of-control zoo monkey? When I dress nice and wear makeup, I do that for me...not for a man and certainly not for men that i don't know, or even care to meet.

Yet when things finally start going your way and we change from the old status quo to be more like the women who men say they admire for their independence and strength...you complain about it. Because we are speaking out against behaviors that have been making women feel uncomfortable and violated, even frightened sometimes as well, for a very, very long time? Because we're saying "hey! I don't like it when you make inappropriate, overtly sexual gestures and stand inside my personal space whilst examining me as if you're Clark Kent and the secret to saving planet Earth is craftily hidden beneath my clothes or something"? If I am clearly not in the possession of the Holy Grail, please don't stand and inspect me like a pithed frog on a dissection block. It is presumptious, degrading, and downright rude, and unless you were lost at birth and raised by a pack of wolves, you already know this simple fact. Actually, I am being unfair to wolves because even they respect and show courtesy for the members of their pack.

I do, as I said before, think it is reaching quite a bit to define the behaviors in the article as a crime, and feel it would be problematic almost immediately because unless there were credible witnesses present at the time or someone got it on video it would be extremely hard to prove. Why? Because it is not rape. And that's why a lot of men do it...they aren't touching you or holding you hostage, therefore by that logic they are not causing you harm, and they get away with it. But psychological distress can be just as severe as physical assaults are. And instead of truly listening and being objective about the impact that this kind of behavior has on people (men too!), many of you are openly attacking those of us who are trying to explain how that form of harassment feels and why we hate it so much. And speaking of psychology, what is the most obvious reaction you can give to someone when they catch you doing something you don't want to admit that you know is wrong? Defensiveness and finger-pointing. Sound familiar? I sincerely hope you were not deliberately implying that women are at fault somehow for being the recipients of unwanted and unwelcome sexual advances, but it sure does sound very much like that was your intent...along with several others who have said much the same thing.

The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." -Albert Einstein

*** A few points I want to make clear***:

1) I am not a feminist nor do I support them in any way, shape or form. They are a lot like PETA...started out with the best of intentions, but allowed their cause to become an obsession and a corrupt organization hell bent on proving they're right even when, and sometimes especially when, they aren't.

2) I do not agree with the term "rape" used in this study, nor do I think being disgusting and ill-mannered should be considered a reason to put someone in jail either. But it is wrong and people really need to be remedially trained in their basic social skills, because this kind of thing happens so often, and so much that researchers felt compelled to do a study on it and get something done about it if their findings were valid.

3) I am only expressing my personal opinion, I am only speaking for how I feel about this from my own personal experience. I do not speak for other women and I don't have a problem with men, or hate men, or even dislike most men. Men are great. Most of my friends are guys. But men who would be gross enough to ogle and leer at me, or follow me around a store making a point to walk past and say raunchy things about my body...yeah, sorry Captain Subtle but that is not a "stage whisper", just fyi...will never win so much as a glance from me. If you behave like you just got teleported here from the Paleolithic era, I will automatically assume that is the only rational explanation for your existence and will proceed to treat you accordingly.

4) When I say "you" or "you guys", I am not referring to any individual specifically. I am only being colloquial in my speech.

so when I woof whistle at my parrot, I am psychological raping him

reply to post by amraks


If you wolf-whistle at your parrot because you are trying to pick up on him with unwelcome and degrading sexual advances, as we are discussing here, I would venture to say that stopping would probably be a good idea at the very least...maybe followed by some counseling sessions. For both of you. Immediately.

On the other hand, if you're wolf-whistling at your parrot because you are trying to teach him to whistle back at you...I mean, i am by no stretch of the imagination an expert in veterinary medicine but...I think he will be just fine.

reply to post by Xtrozero

For males we are stuck with the question "have you ever shyly looked at a woman?" and then once we say yes we are now a physiological rapist....

I'm sorry but what you are describing and what is described in the OP are not remotely the same thing. "Shyly looking" at a woman is not the issue. The blatant staring, the stalking, the whistling and lascivious remarks, the blowing of kisses...I even had one man snap his fingers at me as if I were a dog. That is the behavior we are talking about. Not some shy, innocent smile. That is another example of taking something and running with it. Absolutely no one is saying that glancing at a person is rude. Honestly, I think the next time I go to the store I will take a video so you all can see firsthand what we are talking about.

reply to post by calstorm

As a female gamer, I deal with this frequently. While it makes my uncomfortable, I don't feel threatened because it isn't in real life. However, when I experience it in real life, I am terrified. Because this type really does come across as "I would rape you in a dark alley if i could get away with it." instead of "I would like to take you out to dinner and get to know you better."

You nailed it perfectly. I don't fear them because I know how to take care of myself, but there is a certain amount of animosity and disdain that they channel into the behavior that is quite chilling to observe, and I am ever watchful of them as I leave the area, because I've been followed twice and the whole dynamic changes once you realize someone is following you...that you have suddenly become prey.

tigertatzen

so when I woof whistle at my parrot, I am psychological raping him

reply to post by amraks

 

If you wolf-whistle at your parrot because you are trying to pick up on him with unwelcome and degrading sexual advances, as we are discussing here, I would venture to say that stopping would probably be a good idea at the very least...maybe followed by some counseling sessions. For both of you. Immediately.

On the other hand, if you're wolf-whistling at your parrot because you are trying to teach him to whistle back at you...I mean, i am by no stretch of the imagination an expert in veterinary medicine but...I think he will be just fine.

Phewww Thank you I was a little worried I was gonna have to find a bird counselor.
sorry I couldn't help myself..

tigertatzen
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

For males we are stuck with the question "have you ever shyly looked at a woman?" and then once we say yes we are now a physiological rapist....

I'm sorry but what you are describing and what is described in the OP are not remotely the same thing. "Shyly looking" at a woman is not the issue. The blatant staring, the stalking, the whistling and lascivious remarks, the blowing of kisses...I even had one man snap his fingers at me as if I were a dog. That is the behavior we are talking about. Not some shy, innocent smile. That is another example of taking something and running with it. Absolutely no one is saying that glancing at a person is rude. Honestly, I think the next time I go to the store I will take a video so you all can see firsthand what we are talking about.

You are again assuming. I was assaulted by a woman for no other reason than looking in her direction. I had never seen her ever before. But she assumed that because she was pretty that I was staring at her, when in reality I was wondering when my bud was coming back from the bar with the beer and basically staring off into space.

I did see her beelining at my table and said "hello" and that was as far as I got before she tried to slap me and started to yell all sorts of things. If she had connected, she would have walked away from that encounter a little less pretty. I don't take kindly to being attacked, by any sex, for no reason. But my mind was still trying to wrap itself as to why this strange woman was yelling at me.

Oh well, my buddy had a good laugh.

Yes. Consistently. Constantly.

It's tempting to type out a lengthy reply to point out all that is wrong with some of the views expressed in this thread. But what is the point, really? Some people will just cling on to their paranoid beliefs and continue to feed into their victim mentality, without considering that perhaps their mindset might be the problem.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


You are a hypocrite. The logical fallacy is yours. You are trying to make your argument stronger by implying someone would disagree with it using an illogical argument. This hasn't actually happened on this thread. And i've never seen somebody say it's sexist to say men are physically stronger. It's certainly not a common view for women to have. But if you make out it is you invalidate their views.

reply to post by tigertatzen

What i was getting at was the big push, By Women, to have lads Mags and such removed from the top shelf because they objectify women, but at the same time keep the 50 shades trilogy or whatever it is on the top shelf.. Maybe i'm missing something.

Reading this thread makes me glad I'm married and no longer have to walk the moral minefield of picking up a new bird (Bit tongue in cheek that, for those lacking a gsoh).

I thought I could judge what was creepy or harassment, but it seems to lie with the mood of the"victim"far too much.
I think I'd just play it safe and walk around with a sandwich board like those "End of the world is nigh" types.
Maybe something like "Will cook, treat you nice and can rut like a beast." would work?

Nah, I'll stick with the mrs, I can tell her she's smoking hot without her letting a rape alarm off in my ear.


As for proper creeps and lechy bosses using their power to cop a free feel, they just make my fists itch.

reply to post by TDawgRex


I am sorry for what happened to you, but please don't lump all women in the same category as this one. She may have had psychological problems you didn't know about.

WilsonWilson
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

You are a hypocrite. The logical fallacy is yours. You are trying to make your argument stronger by implying someone would disagree with it using an illogical argument. This hasn't actually happened on this thread. And i've never seen somebody say it's sexist to say men are physically stronger. It's certainly not a common view for women to have. But if you make out it is you invalidate their views.

I can't help what you have and have not experienced (or noticed) in your own life.

I am not implying anything. I am stating my own experience. If the search function didn't suck, I could find half a dozen from ATS.

No. Not on this thread. But this thread is not the entirety of experience, either.

No, it isn't a common view for women to have. But the common woman is not going to be inspired to speak on matters such as this. So we won't likely hear from as many of them.

James1982

WilsonWilson
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

It wouldn't happen, but if you're obviously hoping to gain something by saying it would.

Yes, it would, and it has. There are countless women who have said that women are just as strong as men, they can do anything a man can do.

Well guess what, if you can do anything a man can do, you can rape too. Can't have it both ways.

LOL, what are you doing? WilsonWilson has said it doesn't happen. So it obviously doesn't. No need to discuss it...WilsonWilson has it all figured out.