**BREAKING NEWS** Senator Suggests Recalling Russia Ambassador over Obama Speech

Vovin
Crimea declaring independence was illegal? Why? Because it wasn't recognized by some western states? But Israel is perfectly fine? Kosovo?

Do some research before making a statement that
A - does not support your claim
B - does not apply to Crimea.

Specifically Kosovo, which Russia was a part of and had military assets in KFOR.
Israel was recognized as a nation under UN terms (Palestine mandate - United Kingdom)

As for Crimea, if you don't know the legalities involved maybe you should learn them before trying to speak on the topic. Simply throwing out country names / situations does not cut it.

Vovin
And spare me this drivel about how the Crimean self-defense forces were secretly Russian soldiers. It's unsubstantiated heresay, and really, did you expect a newly-independent nation to not form its own defense force?

edit on 21-3-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)

Actually since Crimea / Russia held the position that people in Kiev violated the Constitution it leads one to believe they still used it for their purposes. If Crimea / Russia did not use the Ukraine Constitution, then there would have been no reason for Russia to need to use violation of Ukraine constitution as an excuse / justification for their actions - Yes? No?

As for the "drivel" and hearsay there is documented video evidence of those no insignia people stating they are Russian soldiers. Also, hearsay would be when one person repeats a conversation they had with another party to a third, who then repeats it. When the soldier is confronted and asked questions about who he is, and he states Russian, its not hearsay.

As for the comment about self defense force. RE-read what you just typed - How can a "newly-independent nation" form its own defense force before they are independent? IB Times - Russia's Use Of Unmarked Troops In Simferopol, Crimea: Shady, But Not Illegal




If you ask a question, don't get pissed when you get an answer you don't like.

reply to post by Xcathdra


As for why I brought up Kosovo and Israel is because of this concept called "historical prerogative". Those situations helped set the precedents that establish modern international law (both customary and formal) so please do not tell me that they are unrelated.

As for your evidence of Russian invasion, you still fall short of proving anything. Russians in the CSDF does not equate to the CSDF being an arm of the Russian Forces. By simply stating such shallow arguments you are completely avoiding the obvious complexities of the cultural composition of Crimea itself.

Obviously there would be Russians in the CSDF since Crimea's population was primarily Russian to start with. Could they be taking orders from the Russian military? Most likely have been from the start. It doesn't change the fact that they were first established from Ukainian police forces pushed out of the western Ukraine, alongside Crimean nationales.

But they were not Russian military forces that moved in and invaded Ukraine, like you keep claiming. There's a fundamental difference. If you are willing to agree that proxy armies constitute an invasion force, then you need to backtrack on years of posts regarding rebels in many countries around the world that just so happen to be fighting on behalf of external countries, including your own, American.

reply to post by Vovin


Yet you posted nothing to support your claims.

if you say the info in my posts are untrue then feel free to provide the sources to support your opinion.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Your constant posting about Russia "invading" Crimea simply does not make it true. Your total belief in what you hear from CNN is astounding to me.
When did you last have a conversation with a Russian? When did you sit over dinner and discuss with a Russian or two what that country is like today as opposed to say, 10, 20 or 30 years ago? Your constant claims of Putin being a dictator hungering to go back to the USSR days are supported only by western news organizations known to be bought and paid for by US/Obama/EU propagandists.
Because my husband speaks Russian (he was a Cold Warrior, trained by the USAF at Syracuse) we have been able to actually sit and talk with Russians since students from Russia began making their way to the US for education at our university. We've kept in touch with many of them after they returned to Russia. They paint a very different picture of the country than any you will see or hear from today's msm.
Many of them believe in Putin because he has produced results in the form of economic growth. Today when we hear from our former students who have returned to Russia, we hear about their jobs and how they are able to help their parents and families, not about how they must stay on their parents' insurance and live in their parents' homes when they are 30 years old. They speak about how he had made good progress in beginning to rid the country of the corruption of past regimes and putting the corrupt corporate leaders in jail because they were stealing from the Russian people.
You continue to harp on how "the government owns the media" and yet one of his former students manages an independent radio station that has no more government control than our local station, a broadcast license, while another is a writer for a newspaper that is also independently owned and has no government controls. Unlike the US, they are local enterprises and there are literally thousands of them across Russia, not 5 or 6 media moguls that own even the local newspapers and radio.
Are they as free as the US? I have no doubt that we have some freedoms left that Russians would like but you must remember that our country has been "free" since 1776 and we still don't have it anywhere near perfection while Russia and the other Soviet bloc countries are still taking their first baby steps toward a free society. While they go forward, we are sliding into a police state of which the Nazis would be proud. They don't have "constitution-free zones" I'm told, they can travel freely within their country without having to present their papers.
I am continually amazed at the number of US citizens who insist on continually believing in the 1950s-70s Cold War propaganda and insisting that they KNOW how things are in Russia despite never having visited there or even having had a single conversation with a Russian citizen. Your view is based on abject ignorance of the subject of which you speak, an ignorance that your government depends on for your continued support.
How many Russian citizens has Putin wiped out with drones? Have you heard Vlad bragging "I'm pretty good at killing people" the way the current White House resident has boasted? As others have pointed out, we need to get the log out of our own eyes before beginning to pick at splinters in the eyes of others.

reply to post by diggindirt


Totally agreed here. That was my experience living in Europe and talking to many Russians. Many were starting to trickle back to Russia because of positive changes in things there, and a slow but steady increase in jobs and such. It's not great over there, but neither is it dire or oppresive.

Xcathdra
reply to post by Vovin

 

Yet you posted nothing to support your claims.

if you say the info in my posts are untrue then feel free to provide the sources to support your opinion.

100% textbook answer.

Still asking me to prove the null hypothesis, which is by definition the generally accepted hypothesis, when the burden of proof is on you to prove your alternative hypothesis. Asking me for sources to prove what your sources already acknowledge as being the null hypothesis just does not make any sense whatsoever.