**BREAKING NEWS** Senator Suggests Recalling Russia Ambassador over Obama Speech

reply to post by Xcathdra


[ Ukraine has a right to repel the invasion and has a right to request assistance in that.]

Surprising how a bunch of determined, anti Government, 'Yob's' can Overthrow a previously Elected Government and be recognised and nigh on Welcomed by said Western world Democracy Supporters ie the UK, EU, USA Governments etc. So if a loud group of Fanatics - previously seen wearing Nazi style tokens, and Tattoos, A group photographed Carrying white power symbol shields, plus shields marked with 88 etc. are now Acceptable, is that the point ???? If it is then a similar group could rise-up, overthrow Our Governments and that would now be OK would it ???? I don't think so and certainly Hope Not. A Non elected bunch of said relutionist kicked out the pre-elected Ukraine Government and by so doing they kicked out all previous agreements of support earlier signed during the reign of President Bill Clinton plus other UK, EU leaders. Again 'IF' it is acceptable for a bunch of lunatics to storm Government buildings or to set light to city buildings, or throw molotov cocktails at the police etc., if all that is acceptable, then how come a similar bunch of recent UK loonies were all arrested and stuck behind bars??? I suppose its all OK provided it is done in other countries such as Syria, Libya, Egypt, the Ukraine etc. etc. etc. But it must not be carried out in certain middle east countries. The whole act is making a mockery of Democracy and a UK FM intends to fly out to the Ukraine just to prove such. This - if you do enough recent research - is becoming the Birth of a Fourth Reich. Imagine what this world will be like in 10 years time.

reply to post by steaming


And so long as the world allows Putin to act in the manner he is unchecked, Putin will deliver that 4th Reich to all.

The government of Ukraine lawfully removed the President. As we have seen in former soviet Republics, when leaders are booted, they don't understand its time for them to step down. He refused to do that, then fled to Russia like a coward. Also, you as well as Russia seems to be ignoring the Ukrainian governments overwhelming support to remove the president. All lawful under Ukraine's constitution.

If this is allowed to occur unchecked, then the restoration of the former Soviet Union (or 4th Reich for you) is guaranteed. It will open the door for any nation to invade another while using the excuse of nations interest.

As has been stated before yet ignored by all Russia supporters - Russia's actions in Ukraine allows the use of force and intervention in Chechnya / Dagestan to allow those people out from under the boot of the Russian government.

The population in Crimea that is not Russian faces oppression under Russia and therefore, their interests should be protected by foreign forces to ensure they have a voice in what's going on.

Russia's actions justifies the use of force in Iran and Syria...

If Turkey disallows Russian military assets to traverse the straights, is Russia going to invade Turkey.

Wrabbit2000

Yes my little friend....Would you by chance know where the old maps are for civil defense shelters a rabbit and ewok may fit into, in a pinch? I really don't think 10,000 Degrees will do much for my beautiful white fur.

How rude...having a peeing match across our pretty planet. It looked fine without being a urinal, didn't it?

edit on 1-3-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Yeah. I think il take the 10,000 Degrees though. May be more of a mercy.

Xcathdra


Based on the circumstances there is not much to discuss. The chat between Obama and Putin today reinforced that point when neither side could agree on anything. Russia is the one pushing for a recall of Ambassadors. Give it to them.

Ukraine is sovereign. Russia invaded and violated their sovereignty. They then violated their own agreements with Ukraine.

Allowing Russia to continue only increases the likelihood that this will be the catalyst of Russia reclaiming the former Soviet Republics.

Ukraine has a right to repel the invasion and has a right to request assistance in that.

edit on 1-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

God stop with F'ING war drums!

I bloody well hope your the dam well first to sign up and go over!

How the HELL do you expect a war with Russia to go eh?

TELL ME!

TELL ME!

You think Putin will roll out the red carpet for US troops to march on Moscow?

reply to post by crazyewok


I don't want to see war. However, when Russia is allowed to go unchecked a choice must be made. I am not in favor of sacrificing Ukrainian democracy and independence by abandoning them to Russia demands and illegal actions in order for temporary security. Temporary is key since they wont stop with Ukraine.

Absent Russia doing a complete withdraw we owe it to Ukraine, as well as every other former soviet republic, to stand with them against Russian aggression.

The way to stop hostilities would be for Russia to withdraw as requested by Ukraine and work it out via talking.

Russia is the one in control whether this ends peacefully or with war. As for how I think war would go.. I think Russia would get beat. The mindset that Russia is the same as the former Soviet union is a pipe dream. Putin is trying to act as a world power when in reality they are no where close to having that status.

If hostilities break out, Russia would be defeated. They do not have the resources / ability to project force like they once did. Finally, the Russian people aren't going to just allow the Russian government to drag them down with them. You and others continually ignore that part of the equation.. Probably because it was not a factor during the USSR days. It is now and its dangerous to assume a war can be won abroad while fighting one at home.

Xcathdra


If hostilities break out, Russia would be defeated. They do not have the resources / ability to project force like they once did. Finally, the Russian people aren't going to just allow the Russian government to drag them down with them. You and others continually ignore that part of the equation.. Probably because it was not a factor during the USSR days. It is now and its dangerous to assume a war can be won abroad while fighting one at home.

edit on 1-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

So how do you think a war will go?

Please expalin

You think NATO have the chance to occuply Russia? I dont think so.

You think that as soon as NATO forces exit Ukraine and chase the retreating Russian Army into Russia proper they wont pull out all the old dirty (and successfull) tricks they alway do when being thrashed and haveing to defend the motherland?

You think that if Russia proper was invaded they would use tactical Nukes on there OWN soil to make up the disparity in force? (I beleive tactical nukes to defend ones home land is allowed if its on military targets)

You think that if NATO was likley to completly win they wouldnt activate MAD and go for broke?

In 1941 at the start of opperation Barbarosa the USSR was in even worse shape than its in now (Finland had just thrashed them, FINLAND!) NAZI gemany was probably just as far ahead then as the USA is now over Russia......look what happend.

crazyewok
So how do you think a war will go?

Please expalin

You think NATO have the chance to occuply Russia? I dont think so.

This mindset you just demonstrated is why Russia will lose. NATO does not have to invade Russia. Since you seem to be lost in this the goal is to protect Ukraine, which means actions in Ukrainian territory, which includes the Crimea. The response is to remove Russian forces and restore the peace so the situation can be resolved by soverieng nations instead of Russia acting like a highway robber in the middle of the night.

The purpose of NATO was not for invasion / occupation of Russia. It was to prevent the USSR from crossing the elbe to occupy the parts of Europe it was not able to rape / pillage and plunder at the end of WWII. In case you were not aware, the Yalta conference that Stalin attended, agreed to hold elections in the Soviet occupation zones so those nations could re-establish local governments and go from there.

The USSR opted to ignore that part of the treaty... I guarantee you those nations / former republics are not going to welcome Putin with open arms.

crazyewok
You think that as soon as NATO forces exit Ukraine and chase the retreating Russian Army into Russia proper they wont pull out all the old dirty (and successfull) tricks they alway do when being thrashed and haveing to defend the motherland?

NATO has no desire to occupy Russia. If you spent any time learning about NATO and its purpose we would not have to have this conversation / educational experience for you.

crazyewok
You think that if Russia proper was invaded they would use tactical Nukes on there OWN soil to make up the disparity in force? (I beleive tactical nukes to defend ones home land is allowed if its on military targets)

again - the goal is not to invade Russia proper. It is to prevent Russia from invading / occupying countries that don't wish to be a part of Putins 4th Reich.

And I see we have another member of the omg wtf NuKeSS!"!"!"! club...

crazyewok
You think that if NATO was likley to completly win they wouldnt activate MAD and go for broke?

NATOs goal is not to invade / occupy Russia. Its to prevent exactly what Putin started in the Ukraine.

crazyewok
In 1941 at the start of opperation Barbarosa the USSR was in even worse shape than its in now (Finland had just thrashed them, FINLAND!) NAZI gemany was probably just as far ahead then as the USA is now over Russia......look what happend.

Yeah Russia begged the US / Allies to open up a western front to pull pressure of Russian forces because they were getting their asses handed to them by the Nazis. Had it not been for the US supplying equipment / war material to Russia, they would have been speaking German until the US / UK / Allies defeated the Nazis.

what other parts of history / NATO can we correct for you?

NATO

Xcathdra

Yeah Russia begged the US / Allies to open up a western front to pull pressure of Russian forces because they were getting their asses handed to them by the Nazis. Had it not been for the US supplying equipment / war material to Russia, they would have been speaking German until the US / UK / Allies defeated the Nazis.

And you have the nerve to lecture me on history?

Thats a very american centic biased look.

The Allies (and I use the term allied as the USA was part of the "allies" not a seprate entity) supply of material add at the start likley saved them ( Who to say China wont send the same add to Russia this time?) BUT the western front likley did little. By 1944 Russia was already in steam roller mod and victory for them was more or less assured. That can be seen that 9/10 Germans died on the Russian front.



And you know what? Yeah I hope of war does break out its confined to Ukraine ONLY and probably that will be the case. But war has a nasty habbit of escalating.

crazyewok
And you have the nerve to lecture me on history?

If you are going to ignore history and replace it with science fiction, absolutely, I will lecture you.

crazyewok
Thats a very american centic biased look.

Yet still correct.... Trying to dismiss fact by using a typical "attack the ideology" does not work anymore. At least, not outside Russia.

crazyewok
The Allies (and I use the term allied as the USA was part of the "allies" not a seprate entity) supply of material add at the start likley saved them ( Who to say China wont send the same add to Russia this time?) BUT the western front likley did little. By 1944 Russia was already in steam roller mod and victory for them was more or less assured. That can be seen that 9/10 Germans died on the Russian front.

What happened in 1944 that allowed Russia to advance?

I will give you a hint... June 6th, 1944.

D-Day - The allied invasion of Normandy, forcing Germany to shift forces from the east, back to the western front. While Stalin liked to talk up the military, the thing that saved Russia was first - the Russian winter and 2 - Hitler's constant interference with his generals, forcing actions that hurt, rather than helping, Germans situation.

The west supplied massive amounts of supplies to Russia, and even shifted naval assets to ensure those convoys reached Russia. That in turn caused issues with the resupply of western allies.

So, once again, stop ignoring history and trying to play it off as something that it was not.

crazyewok
And you know what? Yeah I hope of war does break out its confined to Ukraine ONLY and probably that will be the case. But war has a nasty habbit of escalating.

Especially when people, like Putin, think its ok to invade a sovereign nation while telling other nations to back of to keep it from escalating. As I stated in other threads, a plan worthy of Hitler himself. To bad Russia, Putin and others, is to arrogant to take history into account. Hitler did the same thing... It didn't work for Hitler, and it wont work for Putin.

Russia is piss't off at the way US it destroying country after country.
using revelations and one group fighting another group within a country.

Russia is just looking after Russia people.
and not letting US dirty tricks destabilize them.

US is Always sending in ITS troops as peace keepers (HA!).
Now its Russia turn...

reply to post by Xcathdra


Sorry what you said was bull crap. Utter bull crap and shows you know little about history. Or that American schools teach tripe.

The Russian advance beguin long before D day.
Stalingrad
Kharkov
Kursk

The 3 big battles that destroyed the largest parts of nazi germany...all happend circa 1943... if anything its those defeats that allowed the allies to advance!

Call me ignorant.. but why should we Americans even care about this? Don't we have enough damn problems here at home? Aren't we still fighting 2 wars of our own?

Do we really need this? Let them deal with their problems. And please don't say things like "Ukraine is a sovereign nation". So was Iraq and look what happened there.

I don't think at this point, Russia, nor the rest of the world give a damn what Obama or the United States "threatens" to do. Obama has shown time and time again that he's as strong as a wet napkin. And it has cost us. There was a time when we could threaten nations and they would back down. Now they simply laugh at us.

So lets be smart here. Stay out of this one. Russia is not going to back down to us. They've had enough of our "missile shield" nonsense over there. And this IS in their backyard. Perhaps we could take care of some problems at home instead of throwing more money into the fires of war.

crazyewok

Xcathdra


Based on the circumstances there is not much to discuss. The chat between Obama and Putin today reinforced that point when neither side could agree on anything. Russia is the one pushing for a recall of Ambassadors. Give it to them.

Ukraine is sovereign. Russia invaded and violated their sovereignty. They then violated their own agreements with Ukraine.

Allowing Russia to continue only increases the likelihood that this will be the catalyst of Russia reclaiming the former Soviet Republics.

Ukraine has a right to repel the invasion and has a right to request assistance in that.

edit on 1-3-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

God stop with F'ING war drums!

I bloody well hope your the dam well first to sign up and go over!

How the HELL do you expect a war with Russia to go eh?

TELL ME!

TELL ME!

You think Putin will roll out the red carpet for US troops to march on Moscow?

edit on 1-3-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

I agree, we should give Russia Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Germany, and France. We don't want war, so Russia can take what they want. If they ask, Netherlands can be theirs too.

While war is certainly horrific, between war and aquiescence war is preferable. Russia has little hope of winning a conflict between themselves and US/NATO forces.

Unfortunately we have arguably the weakest president in US history overseeing this.

DerekJR321
Call me ignorant.. but why should we Americans even care about this? Don't we have enough damn problems here at home? Aren't we still fighting 2 wars of our own?

Do we really need this? Let them deal with their problems.

We have a treaty with them. That's why we should care. If America says our word is worthless and will never defend you, we will 100% lose our status in the world, allies will look elsewhere, and it will be the biggest defeat in US history.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


So we should go to war with Russia? Which would mean China would get involved? Being that they are allied with Russia. And if China did get involved they would probably start out by DESTROYING our economy first. Yes.. they wouldn't want to risk losing their biggest trade partner.. but then again.. I think the rest of the world is pretty sick of the US right now.

Libertygal
Ukraine is begging us for help

Get real, the average Ukrainian folk (btw I'm Ukrainian) do NOT
consider u.s., england's, or israel's foreign meddling as 'help'.
ON THE CONTRARY ! (with 'friends' as that who needs enemies
Even russia is in bed with the pipe co., the corporations
run and rape the governments. There will be no such thing
as 'governments' when they are through.
Your leaders are shell oil and affiliates.

_____________________

reply to post by ToneDeaf


If you don't mind me asking, since you are Ukrainian.

What does Ukraine want?

DerekJR321
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

So we should go to war with Russia? Which would mean China would get involved? Being that they are allied with Russia. And if China did get involved they would probably start out by DESTROYING our economy first. Yes.. they wouldn't want to risk losing their biggest trade partner.. but then again.. I think the rest of the world is pretty sick of the US right now.

China and Russia are allies? I would love for you to show me the treaty they have that says they must join wars of aggression.

I certainly don't want war, but the US would handily beat both China and Russia, China would actually be pretty easy to destroy at the moment by blockading all trade in and out.

So what you are suggesting, is that the US refuse to help an ally being invaded whom we have a signed treaty with saying we will help? Just out of curiosity what other nations should we hand over to Russia? What nations should we hand over to China?

ToneDeaf

Libertygal
Ukraine is begging us for help

Get real, the average Ukrainian folk (btw I'm Ukrainian) do NOT
consider u.s., england's, or israel's foreign meddling as 'help'.
ON THE CONTRARY ! (with 'friends' as that who needs enemies

Even russia is in bed with the pipe co., the corporations
run and rape the governments. There will be no such thing
as 'governments' when they are through.
Your leaders are shell oil and affiliates.

_____________________

edit on 2/3/14 by ToneDeaf because: (no reason given)

So the average Ukraine would prefer to be invaded by Russia and have half their land stolen, and their entire army destroyed, with huge loss of life, than have the US assist them and beat back the Russians?

Xcathdra
What does Ukraine want?

'Wants' of corporations is the problem, not only
in Ukraine but globally.
When common people are whipped till they are down on their
knees the elites will easily exploit the people.
The 'turmoil' has been artificially created and funded
by such as these :
www.forbes.com...
The elites of russia/england/u.s/israel are all in bed with each other,
It's the common folk and their children
which are being exploited, sovereignty has lost all meaning with no thanks to the
greed of elites.

_______________________________