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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:18 PM
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Agit8dChop

SheopleNation
Do the majority of Ukrainians support Russia or not?


I know this wasn't directed at my but I'd like to point something out.
In the 1930's the Ukrainians hated the Russians because of the soviets great famine against Ukraine.
This is why the Ukrainians welcomed the Nazi's initially.

Fast Forward to the cold war, you have the USSR gifting Crimea to the Ukraine (it came as a surprise) and a gift because they were then under the Soviet Umbrella of control.

Presently, the population is 60% Russian, 25% Ukrainian and 12% Crimean Tatars.

When you put all this together Ukraine will be forced to hand back Crimea or have its little butt kicked and/or the new administration embarrassed and forced to flee Kiev.

Its the only option available.


Just to clarify, those population breakdown figures are for Crimean Peninsula, not Ukraine in general. I felt it needed clarification.

Also, Turkey has more rights to Crimea than anyone going by past agreements with Russia during the time of the Ottoman Empire....then again, looks like agreements arent worth the paper they are written on these days.

If NATO doesnt back up international agreements, then basically, the world will degenerate into a free for all....take what and who you want as no agreement is binding, hence no threat and no security pact.

Big chance of NATO collapsing if it doesnt come to the aid of Polands Article 4 request.

History repeating? Didnt the League of Nations collapse over a 100 years ago aswell due to squabling amongst members over what should or shouldnt be done?




posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by MALBOSIA
 


Give me goose bumps of the composure so far on both sides.
But at least none of the bystanders are fleeing for life. Then again..their a heart hardened bunch over there. I'm certainly learning a thing or two on character.


And by composure I mean no one is shooting just because..and no one has fired a shot.
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edit on 3-3-2014 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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Dolby_X
reply to post by TritonTaranis
 


no nneed to brainwash no one just need to pay some leader i'll ask you something you already asked me another day on what planet do you live ?

the west have nothing to do in there ?


pando.com...

but you are right west is not playing with Ukraine politic in the background to made this happen ... white as snow



NONONNONO... can't watch! The coup d'État was the free will of the Ukrainians!

Coz Kerry said so!

[
edit on 3/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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MALBOSIA

SheopleNation

Bigburgh
I would make a terrible politician.
To many folks here bring very valid points to all sides of the argument.
But more importantly..I feel for the public on both sides in the Ukraine that will not be able to defend themselves when and if bullets fly.


Me neither my friend, and I agree with what you said. It's just sad that the innocent who just want to live life surrounded by their own families and friends, watch each others children grow up and just be left the hell alone, are the people who end up suffering as the result of evil Men.

Let's all hope commonsense will prevail. It seems to be a trait that is seriously lacking during these recent times. ~$heopleNation


Russian troops are not going to shoot anyone. From what I can tell by reports here in Canada on the CBC is that Ukrainians are really not all that threatened by the troops. It is business as usual.

I personally think that, as hard as the western media is selling the idea that the troop activity was an act of aggression against the Ukrainian [bold]people[/bold], that is not the case. The media is using the words - protesters and Russian forces - in the same sentence. Over and over and over again. Are the protesters there for the protesters? No. They are there for bases. And security. Rebel forces have shown a pattern of popping up during these recent and coincidental regime changes.

Mother Russia raised no fool.

If Ukraine wants to break bread with the west then that is fine and dandy, but now those boarders are hostile and Russia is right to stack the deck right off the bat. I don't think the plans on leaving a consulate and state department to deal with it politically and play spy games. A strong and immediate presence sounds like a good idea. US would do the same thing.

Once again Russia calls their bluff and the US and Canada are left with their jaws on the floor. I'm embarrassed. Actually Harper is used to it.

edit on 3-3-2014 by MALBOSIA because: (no reason given)


I agree Russia cant be sen as slaughtering people. Putin hopes he can play off this humanitarian thing and have Crimea just want to happen to join Russia. Then Putin can say well they were afraid to stay under Ukrainian rule so we granted them Russian admission. Its quite clever the problem is he didnt think it all the way through right now the Russian economy is in free fall there stock exchange lost 60 billion dollars in one day.Then ther spent another 12 billion proping up the ruble very ruff day for the Russian economy. By the end of the week there could be no economy left because all those Russian billionaires are in shock right about now and who are they going to blame for this? If this doesnt end quickly Putin will not be in charge long Russia is bleeding money over this.
edit on 3/3/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


Most likely this is Poland's idea. In the Polish perspective this is a situation that can bring back bad memories. Unlike most of Western Europe when WWII was over they had to live under Soviet rule and simply have no desire to go back to that. Right now the parallels are bit frightening.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:27 PM
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dragonridr

Wookiep
reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


Yeah this was brought up a few hours ago, haven't heard anything since. I'm curious how NATO will respond to a member of NATO. I have this feeling that they will do nothing, even tho they are absolutely obligated to do something..


Actually they cant do nothing turkey has invoked this before as well it immediately scrambles NATO members. But i think were miss reading this a bit see now they can get troops right on the border all the time claiming a NATO member requested additional support. Its a way of getting troops into the theater without making it a direct conflict with Russia. See if NATO moved troops into Ukraine this guarantees a military conflict. If they send them to protect Poland than if something happens they just happen to be there. Something tells me the Russians arent going to like it if NATO starts moving troops around.Id say most likely what will happen is a couple of thousand troops are put on the ground and the rest of forces are stationed in turkey and germany on stand by to hit the ground in poland if need be.Poland is doing this on purpose with the intent of moving NATO to commit i just want to know if its there idea or NATOs.


I was wondering if NATO would make moves to fortify Poland..

I suspect this consultation will actually only result in a unified political response to the crisis. Putin again played chicken with NATO and again, the west flinched.

For reference, Google the Georgia conflict. Pay attention to the part where Georgia was at the brink of joining NATO. There's the key part..



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:29 PM
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France has just preemptively surrendered to Russia



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


If Poland's request is that NATO puts troops on their side of the border, and NATO denies... yeah I'll have to say 'well its been a good run guys'. I think this decision will be a crucial turning point in how power is redistributed in the world.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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supamang
France has just preemptively surrendered to Russia


OK being a little french....that made me laugh.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:36 PM
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The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:38 PM
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supamang
The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 




Third time is the charm, I for one happen to like the Germans.
edit on 3-3-2014 by doompornjunkie because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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supamang
The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 




The inverse is also true: The Germans are allied with the United States..
This won't end in World War, but could spell the end for NATO.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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supamang
The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 




Um...I'm also part German...so this to give me a chuckle...the only thing I got left is Irish!

So I'm going to preemptively give a third star

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posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:40 PM
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A possible settlement idea reported from DEBKA com, (MOSSAD), looks good to me if the loonies can keep from shooting. I see Ukraine did drop their stupid no-Russian language law they put through after Prez Kleptopov split. Figure: 1) The Ukraine border is 500 mi from Moscow, or for Americans, a long days drive. 2) Since 1993, NATO/US/GERMANY/UK has been moving more military forces closer and closer to Russia, so 3) given history I can't blame Russia for feeling insecure. Give em Crimea, after a decent interval of 'autonomy', no US front-line weaponry and radar in Ukraine, Ukraine stays whole otherwise. Obama and Kerry STFU. Hopefully keep Ukraine neutral and free of IMF/Monsanto/Chevron but that would be icing on the cake.

But that would take logic and rationality. So then plan B I guess. Stock up on beans/rice/oil, or vodka?

www.debka.com...



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


You make good points. If they have to act then I would say it's a good thing to have NATO at the border. We never know what could pop off if Putin snaps...



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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Bigburgh

supamang
The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 




Um...I'm also part German...so this to give me a chuckle...the only thing I got left is Irish!


I'll take a stab then... The Irish will all be busy guarding the Guinness brewery in Dublin instead of participating in the real battle, can already count them out.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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So Russia invades Ukraine,years after they broke away from them,

Be warned Scotland, be warned.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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supamang
The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 




Good point oh crap in fact they are running this show. The germans are taking the lead on this Angela Merkel speaks Russian and has been in contact with everyone. Funny ususlly its the white house that handles these things. But shes getting the UN in there has been talking with Putin several times she is running the show.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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TritonTaranis

sheepslayer247
I'm watching the questioning of the Russian UN Security Council ambassador and he made it quite clear that there are "outside forces" responsible for the unrest that occurred in the Ukraine. Specifically, "western" interests.

Makes one wonder what the CIA is doing nowadays.


How can the CIA brainwash the majority of the Ukrainan people, along with the Ukrainan government officials in Kiev



It's actually very easy, tested-and-true technique vastly studied by the top American universities for almost a 100 years.

It's called "propaganda". First made famous by Goebbels and Bernays. Ever heard of it?

Chomsky also called it "manufacturing consent".

There's tons of NGO's in Ukraine who, just like the privately-owned mainstream media, have been taking billions from US and Germany to shape public opinion and influence politics. Unless you're a two bytes, there's plenty of valuable info that's been posted in this very thread to prove this, but many other independent web sites have been covering it too. Look out for that Victoria Nuland video for the smoking guns, but older involvement of US and German agencies is documented.

CIA is also helpful in placing agents in key positions within the power structure, that act to enforce agendas at a given time.

Brainwashing is actually much easier with masses and populations, than with individuals. Because their proponents know the tricks of using herd mentality and sophism to push their agendas on the populace. That's how they got the US into many wars.


edit on 3/3/14 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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supamang
The scariest thing about this world war 3 starting is that we are on the Germans' side. They've never won a world war yet.


reply to post by Bigburgh
 




Perhaps but this time they are going in with the US, UK and France that all have two wins. And that isn't counting all the other Allied Nations that have one or two under their belts as well. Long story short Germany would be in good company the third time around.



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