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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Dolby_X
 

That keeps rolling around in my head too. No EU and now no England.

Just heard BO say he would 'consider' economic and diplomatic measures ... pause ... oops forgot the stick.

Does anyone think Putin didn't already have this figured out?




posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Snarl
 


I understand that western powers would like to avoid a war with Russia (I would too). What I don't get is the little games they are playing at a snails pace. You would think that NATO powers would at the very least be mobilizing forces into Poland just in case. Mind you that might be the very reason Poland has invoked article 4 of the NATO treaty and already moved some of it's forces to the Ukrainian border.

I'm all for diplomacy and I don't want to see a war break out but threatening sanctions and political action isn't going to do much unless the west shows Russia that it has the will to put its money where its mouth is.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


what if all that is just to keep us focus elsewhere :/



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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Dolby_X
Britain is drawing up plans to ensure that any EU action against Russia over Ukraine will exempt the City of London, according to a secret government document photographed in Downing Street.


I think people are mistaking what is meant by the "City of London".

The "City of London" is a corporate city-state that rules the British Empire much in the same way that Rome ruled the Roman Empire, the Vatican rules the Catholic Empire and Washington DC runs the American Empire. It's an autonomous entity with its own borders, jurisdiction and leaders. It's the global epicenter for financial fraud and has been that way for centuries. It even retained its independence from the crown in the Magna Carta.

This is simply about the City of London CORPORATION not giving up its battle for market share in the global money laundering racket.

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 03America/Chicago31pm2014-03-03T17:45:31-06:00201403America/Chicago31 by METACOMET because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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All I hear from the Obama camp is that there will be isolation from Russia in a business side of things. Financial hoop la that is all that they are threatening with. You honestly think Putin cares, he can pull the plug on the oil pipes and since China as I hear is on Russia's side of things. What is stopping them from stopping their business with us and asking for their 2 trillion back?

Regardless I don't see any other option on this besides military unless we are willing to just say hey go ahead and take Crimea.

The only people I feel bad about are the Crimeans that are not Russian the other 40% percent that live there and have no choice in the matter. Its like if it happen here against Democrats and Republicans, the other side would feel in danger if the other side used the military on their side.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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Lol, couldn't help but chuckle at this one.




posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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KingJod
All I hear from the Obama camp is that there will be isolation from Russia in a business side of things. Financial hoop la that is all that they are threatening with. You honestly think Putin cares, he can pull the plug on the oil pipes and since China as I hear is on Russia's side of things. What is stopping them from stopping their business with us and asking for their 2 trillion back?

Regardless I don't see any other option on this besides military unless we are willing to just say hey go ahead and take Crimea.

The only people I feel bad about are the Crimeans that are not Russian the other 40% percent that live there and have no choice in the matter. Its like if it happen here against Democrats and Republicans, the other side would feel in danger if the other side used the military on their side.


China makes most of the items we buy here in the US, why couldn't they simply supply it to Russia, damn our sanctions. I mean, we did give China our JDAM technology a few years back.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


It is not our fight, it is theirs.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by Elathan
[more

Exactly, I only see China looking at this saying this could be us ( Russia ). Let's say China decides to take that ocean water that all the Asain countries are fighting over. Would The US really put sanctions on China? Either way China could say screw the US and just do like you say and just start selling to Russians. A ton cheaper then what we buy them for.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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OpinionatedB
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


It is not our fight, it is theirs.


I understand why you feel that way, and I sympathize with war weary americans. But hypothetically speaking, would you feel the same way if the Ukraine was a NATO member? You do realize that there are multiple NATO member nations that border the Ukraine and that the U.S is a NATO member? Nato members are sworn to defend each other militarily. If you don't like it, pressure your government to withdraw from NATO.

In the mean time, Russia's actions pose a risk to nearby NATO members and we don't know where Putin will stop. It's only wise to at least make sure we're prepared if Putin goes off the deep end and decides to invade western Europe. I don't think he will, and I realize that the Russians have legitimate concerns about the state of the Ukraine, but it's always better to be prepared for the worst, and at the very least the message needs to be sent that NATO stands united.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


trust me when i say there are already plans underway to get more NATO troops into poland. The poles want it because they want a military response to be an option. I dont think people realize how much the polish people hate the Russians. To say they dont trust them is an understatement they hate them ans would love nothing better than to give Putin a bloody nose.
edit on 3/3/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


The response is slow because they probably don't know what to do. The Europeans in particular. It's my concern and I can't be the only one that sanctions could actually end up hurting Europe more than Russia. The economy in Europe is fragile with unemployment above 10.8% in the EU, an increase from the previous year and economic growth stagnant. It's the worst timing ever for an increase in oil and energy costs. Globally it's bad too but as Europe is one of the the biggest markets for Russian energy it would be felt the worst there. Nations outside US alignment like China and India will probably just keep buying from Russia as was the case with Iran.

www.cia.gov...



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:01 PM
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Russian stocks and bonds...

I don't know if the Russian economy can hold on much longer...



Russian stocks and bonds plummeted on Monday and the central bank hiked interest rates, burning its way through as much as $12 billion of its reserves to prop up the rouble as markets took fright at the escalating tension with neighbouring Ukraine. Investors were ditching all Russian assets alike - the rouble, stocks and bonds. The market capitalisation of the Russian rouble-denominated MICEX stock index fell some $60 billion since Friday, more than the $51 billion Russia spent on the Winter Olympics in Sochi last month. The Ukrainian hryvnia has firmed since curbs were imposed on deposit withdrawals last week, but Ukrainian eurobonds fell sharply. Russia's central bank unexpectedly raised its key lending rate - the one-week repurchasing agreement - to 7 percent from 5.5 percent, in an attempt to stem capital flight. The central bank did not mention Ukraine in its statement, but said the decision to raise rates was aimed at preventing 'risks to inflation and financial stability associated with the recently increased level of volatility in the financial markets'. The central bank said separately it had changed its rules for the rouble's managed float by raising the amount needed to shift the currency's trading corridor by nearly fivefold to $1.5 billion, saying again it was a move 'to prevent risks to financial stability by limiting exchange rate fluctuations'. ING Bank estimated that the central bank spent $10.5-$12 billion, or 2 percent, of its gold and foreign exchange reserves keeping the rouble from spiralling down too fast. 'It goes without saying that the extent to which (central bank moves are) successful will depend largely on political rather than economic developments," Neil Shearing, chief emerging markets economist at Capital Economics, said. The rouble closed 2 percent down at 36.50 against the dollar and 1.6 percent lower at 50.38 against the euro , its at all-time lows. The MICEX index of Russian shares tumbled 10.8 percent to close at 1,288.8 points and the dollar-denominated RTS collapsed 12 percent to 1,115.1 points Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... -War.html#ixzz2uwo3hesu Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


I can see Russia going off the deep end if they push too far on this and it doesn't end up going their way.. So far it has been smooth sailing, but it's also quite a statement Putin has already made with just Crimea. I'm on the fence when it comes to whos fault this is, there's propaganda from both sides.. What I do know for sure though is Russia's relations with the west has gone backwards about 25 years overnight. If Russia finds itself in a hole, or bogged down by this mess they may find themselves in a desperate situation.
edit on 3-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 

I never thought, not in my wildest dream, and certainly not on ATS, for someone to support any military organization let alone atrocious NATO pact.
I was in fallacy.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Elathan
 


Not unexpected and mostly paper assets which can fluctuate up and down very rapidly. What will actually hurt nations and possibly lead to change in government is high unemployment. High oil prices due to the crisis are a positive for Russia as their economy literally runs on oil. Devalued currency is good for exports whether oil or anything else and the reason China tries to keep it's currency low. Unless of course a nation is reliant on imports like Japan than it is bad and that's why Abenomics isn't working. Anyway the most important number to look at to see how the economy is being affected will be unemployment. The higher that is the more pressure will be put on the government.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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Dolby_X
reply to post by Elathan
 


well it's pretty clear for me



I could not agree more! The US will meddle us all into WW3 sooner or later. "Your either with us of agin us." Why is their not a line that just says, "Let's be friends." Yes I know, the dreaded friends zone, but it would work in Politics!

P



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 


If their stocks are drowning then maybe the rich Russians know this is it, the day had come to the great war with America. If American stocks start to fall then the rich here are getting prepared by taking their money and investing in protection, food, and living supplies for the next 5-7 year's. Ore they are buying gold, either way it will show what's going to happen.

This may lead us into our great revolution here in the states. Show our ssupport to leave other countries alone and fix the problems here. I don't know either way im ready for this day to come. I've been waiting a while for it.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 

I never thought, not in my wildest dream, and certainly not on ATS, for someone to support any military organization let alone atrocious NATO pact.
I was in fallacy.


Could you clarify your statements somewhat? I am not suggesting NATO goes to war with Russia. I am suggesting that NATO makes it apparent to Russia that it is united, and mobilizes for a worst case scenario (not into the Ukraine, but rather in one of the member nations which borders it).

As for NATO itself, I support NATO fully, and my countries membership therein.



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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DeadSeraph
reply to post by Dolby_X
 


Well I guess that answers my question a few pages ago about whether or not they would allow them supplies...

Not good. I really hope that is just ill thought out rhetoric and the Russians aren't stupid enough to try and starve the Ukrainian army out of the Crimea. That will increase the chances of someone committing a grave mistake exponentially.


Honestly, the more I read, the more I think Putin wants to start the war. I hope it is just posturing, but his actions are quite forceful.



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