Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

reply to post by stumason


Its sort of crossed my red line now.

Crimea was fair game for me. But moving into the main parts of Ukraine too far. I wouldn't not be against NATO stationing a few brigades in west Ukraine as a deterrence now.

luciddream
WWIII lovers can be rest assured that this wont be like WWII. Most countries have Nukes.

Nuke makes any small country into a potential threat.

Unless anyone dumb enough to actually march on Moscow or Russia to try and march on Paris nukes wont fly. Not strategic ones anyway. If anything nukes will just make sure the killing confined to the battlefield.

asen_y2k
reply to post by DJW001

 

But wont it be a land war mostly and most of the Russian naval assests are already in the black sea.

The Russian assets will need to be supplied either by land, by air or by sea. Ukraine can so damage roads and bridges that supplies cannot come in by land. With missiles, they can harass an attempted airlift. The US Navy can prevent supplies coming in by sea. The question is: is Putin crazy enough to open fire on American ships? Khrushchev wasn't.

DJW001
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

If Russia is moving on Odessa, the United States Navy will be called in to blockade the Black Sea. This is Obama's "Kennedy moment."

By some accounts that wasn't one of Kennedy brighter moves.
I don't have a whole lot of faith in Obama or the people advising him at the moment.
But that doesn't really matter since he will probably just go along with whatever Germany, France and the U.K. do.

I hate to say it but in one aspect having the Russians there may be a good thing.
Without them the Ukraine may break up into a Civil War.
That may still happen though.
The only thing stopping Russia from taking over all the the Ukraine would be NATO boots on the ground in Kiev.
And other than maybe Poland I have not seen or heard of any NATO troop movements.
NATO, the EU and the US got caught with their pants down.

reply to post by DJW001


Na. would be suicide now. A lot of Russian ships are still the ones Khrushchev had! Russia would not even be able to complete with the Royal Navy, even the french navy could get a victory for once against it! So firing on a US ship would mean the black sea fleet would find a new home under the black sea.

Looks like more trouble on the way.
Extra troops to secure the new objectives no doubt.

Russian troops have taken over a ferry terminal on the easternmost tip of Crimea in the city of Kerch and Russian armoured cars were lining up on the Russian side of the Kerch Channel. Kerch is about 20km (12 miles) by boat to Russia

www.theguardian.com...

reply to post by weirdguy


Haha stop enticing me with Amsterdam.

The police are surprisingly allowing the protestors to storm the buildings.

DJW001

The question is: is Putin crazy enough to open fire on American ships? Khrushchev wasn't.

The Man tries to impress his fellow world leaders by Wrestling Bears half naked ....of course he's Crazy enough...the guys a loose Cannon.

reply to post by mash3d

Without them the Ukraine may break up into a Civil War.

The Civil War ended when the Russians invaded. Now its just war, partisan war.

Soloprotocol


The Man tries to impress his fellow world leaders by Wrestling Bears half naked ....of course he's Crazy enough...the guys a loose Cannon.

He is crazy but not stupid.

Putin knows he would lose his Navy in a few hours if he tried. There would be no competition just a lot of rusting Russian hulks sitting at the bottom of the black sea.

crazyewok
Putin knows he would lose his Navy in a few hours if he tried. There would be no competition just a lot of rusting Russian hulks sitting at the bottom of the black sea.

As opposed to the rusting Russian hulks currently on the surface?

Seriously though, if you want to see badly maintained ships which are barely sea worthy, look at the Russian Navy! I've never seen so much Ferrous Oxide...

Ukraine doesn't want to go down the route of Military fight back to defend tactics from the looks of things.

But Ukraine has the right to protect it homeland. They need to act fast now because they are losing a lot of key areas around Ukraine.

BTW as much as the international community flacks Russia intentions in Crimea and so on they are not going to do jack diddle but watch from the sidelines and try and work things out democratically.

I bet US, UK and all other international bodies have begged the new Ukrainian interim government to hand over Crimea to Russian control to stop all the provocations for at least a while so they can sort something out on the political spectrum.

Like all countries Ukraine must and should defend it's right of sovereignty 'Hello Ukraine wake up! Russia has just invaded and occupied your country without a single bullet.'

Start acting now.

Yeah, keep poking the bear. Putin is crazy enough to kidnap or kill Kerry in Kiev with a special forces raid. Just to show the world to get the hell out of his front yard while he takes care of business. Talk about unexpected! Yeah. I wouldn't put it past him. At all.

asen_y2k
reply to post by weirdguy

 

Haha stop enticing me with Amsterdam.

The police are surprisingly allowing the protestors to storm the buildings.

The police are in a hard place to stop them. If they try to contain it and it gets violent it just gives Putin an excuse to push forward. By not quelling the crowds they look incapable an that gives Putin an excuse to push forward. Either way Ukrainian police lose.

crazyewok
reply to post by DJW001

 

Na. would be suicide now. A lot of Russian ships are still the ones Khrushchev had! Russia would not even be able to complete with the Royal Navy, even the french navy could get a victory for once against it! So firing on a US ship would mean the black sea fleet would find a new home under the black sea.

I'd say you would want to look at where Russia is at for it's defensive capabilities and particularly missile technology. The Yakhont Missile in Syrian hands was a very real concern and you notice...for the whole Syrian issue, US Naval presence has been very limited. That truly is a first in my lifetime with a major US involved crisis and no Carrier around. There is a good reason....

This would be with Russia directly, not Syria. Russia's Navy may be a rust bucket fleet in many ways (but in many ways it definitely isn't too....upgrades seem to have been carefully and critically chosen) but get within a couple hundred kilometers of their shoreline, any shoreline they control, and it's 24/7 under threat for being sunk. The Russian home versions of the various systems are very specifically designed to defeat the top line Western (British and American) systems....and I hope we never have to see which comes out better.

TrueAmerican
. Putin is crazy enough to kidnap or kill Kerry in Kiev with a special forces raid.

Wouldn't that do the USA a favor though? Surely sending him back to the USA does more damage ?

rt.com...


rt.com...


Russia has no intention of backing up ... Putin has something in mind , this is ridiculously well planned by Putin . He was probably on waiting for the Neo Nazis to take control to give him a pretext

reply to post by yorkshirelad


if you read to the bottom of the post you will see what i wish for... you've completely misjudged me but i am not arsed... I was documenting what the BBC is reporting as it seemed mostly american sources in this thread, my opinion is my opinion and if you try and rubbish it like that, you will fail in trying to draw me into a pointless and distracting conflict. Don't be an idiot and start calling people conspiracy theorists on a conspiracy theories website, I mean why are YOU here?

Wrabbit2000


I'd say you would want to look at where Russia is at for it's defensive capabilities and particularly missile technology. The Yakhont Missile in Syrian hands was a very real concern and you notice...for the whole Syrian issue, US Naval presence has been very limited. That truly is a first in my lifetime with a major US involved crisis and no Carrier around. There is a good reason....

This would be with Russia directly, not Syria. Russia's Navy may be a rust bucket fleet in many ways (but in many ways it definitely isn't too....upgrades seem to have been carefully and critically chosen) but get within a couple hundred kilometers of their shoreline, any shoreline they control, and it's 24/7 under threat for being sunk. The Russian home versions of the various systems are very specifically designed to defeat the top line Western (British and American) systems....and I hope we never have to see which comes out better.

Now that a different matter.

If the USA or UK wanted to blockade the Russian fleet they can.

Now actually actually getting close to the shoreline that a whole different ball game. why I said the USA and EU would be unstoppable in a defense role but when it comes to offense? They will have some huge problems!

Looks like Donetsk will hold a referendum soon.

Donetsk deputies pressure self-proclaimed governor voted for a referendum