Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Cruiser Vella Gulf heads to Black Sea amid unrest in Ukraine

The Navy’s top officer said Wednesday that the Russian navy has been paying close attention to U.S. ships in the Black Sea.

“Our ships in the Black Sea have been shadowed, typically by a warship and by an intelligence ship, but they’ve been typically shadowed,” Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jon Greenert said during a meeting with reporters. “There have been conversations, they’ve been professional. The shadowing has been at a standoff of two, five, maybe seven miles, depending on visibility. The interactions have been, [the] vast majority, professional.”

www.militarytimes.com...

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Well, I showed you what I've put long hours into. It's not sufficient for you. Thats fine.

We'll agree to disagree and I'll wish you well with your discussions here. I came to throw in a few points to the discussion..which I have.

I'll wander back if new developments warrant more to add.

That is fine I suppose but seems a bit avoiding of the issue for you to fail at answering my very succinct question:

How do your funding figures by the USA State Department to these NGOs and religious groups constitute support of the groups involved in the so called 'coup' or 'Kyiv Junta'?

I took the time to read your presentation (twice) and am a little disappointed that you cannot clarify this very earnest inquiry.

a reply to: dragonridr

Look at the oligarchs and private investment groups -- that is absolutely my take too!

But also do not forget that in Russia (and Ukraine) since 1991 military and state intelligence all became privatized consultancies, available to the highest bidder. As such, the line between FSB/GRU/SVR and organized crime became very blurred. It is much like States in 1920s (or Iraq now).

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

In the interest of clarity, I will add that I came to discuss the issue. The thread is about really establishing and having some running account of the facts to this event. On another thread, I might well spend the night elaborating on my points, as I have no shortage of support for each of them.

Given the thread though, I am disengaging and thank you for appreciating that can come about for reasons other than a lack of ability to continue debating.

Another thread perhaps.

Heres an interesting article discussing the votes and setting up election offices.

Is Ukraine ready to vote?

m.washingtonpost.com...

Putin once again changes the reasons for invading Ukraine and illegally annexing Crimea. Apparently his new excuse is to blame NATO -

Russia will respond to increased NATO activity near border - top general

..........Russia has long been wary of the expansion of the military bloc of 28 nations into eastern Europe, with President Vladimir Putin saying last month that his annexation of Crimea was partly influenced by NATO enlargement.

Putin is such a no talent ass clown its not even funny. The Nazi excuse Putin used with regards to ethnic Russians is nothing but a lie and Putin has proven this time and again. If ethnic Russians were treated in the manner Moscow lied about then why stop at Crimea? Are ethnic Russians in Crimea somehow worth more than ethnic Russians in the south and east of Ukraine?

Putin invaded Ukraine and illegally annexed Crimea based on nothing more than penis envy of the west / EU / NATO.

Apparently ethnic Russians in the South and East of Ukraine are on their own -
Putin says Ukraine conflict is civil war

Poisone d Gas The $400 billion China–Russia deal reveals a lot about the two countries’ pathologies.

Apparently Russia is to invest 50 billion into the pipeline while China is to put in 25 billion. The issue is the Chinese half will almost entirely be applied to the Russian side of the pipeline. Russia also lost out on some of their requirements - pre payment and pricing were the biggest issues they lost out on. Onne the pipeline is operational (about 2018) it will not be able to ship at 100% capacity for sometime.

The political differences between Russia and China will come into play the closer this thing gets to construction and completion. Russia and China have divergent paths when it comes to national goals. They have never seen eye to eye on a topic, even when they are in agreement on said topic.

A final thought to consider.

Russia and China both have stated goals of self sufficiency in key areas - Energy being one of them. Do we honestly think China will accept Russian energy exports on a continued basis without researching new / developing their own energy independence? Its to dangerous for China to rely on Russia to the extent its being made out to be.

Energy dependence on Russia undermines Chinese national security.

Well Putin is looking for away out of Ukraine mess. Hes now saying he will recognize the new president after the vote. Meaning the only thing diffrent will be a presidential change yet hes been calling them illegitimate? Wow its hard to keep up with all his flip flopping.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Simon Ostrovsky is back with a new VICE dispatch, right in the middle of Donetsk:

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme
Simon Ostrovsky is back with a new VICE dispatch, right in the middle of Donetsk:

Simon asks one of the young soldiers who was at Maidan why he volunteered. The answer speaks volumes and reinforces a basic point which has almost gotten lost in all the Russian disinformation:

S: Viktor, why did you join the Maidan protests?

V: First of all, to protect people. And to reach the goal of the people.

S: What were people trying to achieve? How did it all start?

V: First, they beat the students...

To remove those in power who were stealing money from the country. People rebelled against those in power. People got sick and tired of it. Huge sums of money were missing.

Would Putin would have us believe that the US State Department made Viktor Yanukovych corrupt, that the EU had him send security to beat the students on November 30 which sparked the larger protests?

Lies.

Nearly everything that the Russian media (and the shameless people on this site because of their one blind hatred for the West) have promoted about concerning the Maidan narrative is fabrication meant to effect strife.

-- Opportunistic agitation that came when Putin's man lost hold of power.

Im curious about Election day.

You have to appreciate how Russophobia consumed some people.

Remember a couple weeks ago there was a article here about the CZECH republic? Concerns about Russia invading the Czechs?

lol

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme


Life News illogically claimsthat the attack on the Ukrainian military post was not carried out by Donetsk People's Republic but rather pro-Kyiv mercenaries who arrived in private vehicles, but then who also somehow had helicopter air support...

(In other words, they are claiming Ukrainian miltiary helicopters fired on their own men.)

Yep. They did apparently.



This is supposed to be them doing it?

Anyone that can confirm the translations I've read that this is the Ukranian army attacking it's own people?

a reply to: dragonridr

More on what Putin said...

news.yahoo.com...

MOSCOW - A defiant Vladimir Putin declared today that the U.S.-led world order "has failed." Speaking to business leaders a at a forum in St Petersburg, the Russian president railed against U.S. sanctions and dismissed allegations that Russia is meddling in Ukraine, which he said was in the midst of "civil war" thanks to the West. He also rejected accusations by President Obama in unusually pointed terms.

Highly recommend reading the full report by clicking that link.

Putin speaks openly on a wide range of issues.

originally posted by: Imhere
Im curious about Election day.

You have to appreciate how Russophobia consumed some people.

Remember a couple weeks ago there was a article here about the CZECH republic? Concerns about Russia invading the Czechs?

lol

Ukraine is a done deal, Czechs under covert controls... Next target for elimination of western influence and liberals is...

Moldova

Is it wrong to want a leader of a nation publicly executed? a assasins bullet when they are visiting some countrys dignitaries?
Of course it is but its looking like that might be needed in this instance.

a reply to: yuppa

Which "world leader" would you have assassinated?

If you could choose one, only one who would it be?

Remember, some leaders who become martyrs actually become more powerful in death than they were in life.

originally posted by: dragonridr
Heres an interesting article discussing the votes and setting up election offices.

Is Ukraine ready to vote?

m.washingtonpost.com...

Yep they sure are.

Poland's Walesa says the US no longer world leader

hmm

Hello ATS and this particular thread especially,

Election day Sunday. Wishing Ukrainian people, all the supporters outside Ukraine, a good luck! Wishing you folks to elect someone who is if not incarnation, but who represents ideas of Maidan uprising the closest.



My best wishes and let there be peace,

Wiki,
"..Peace is an occurrence of harmony characterized by the lack of violence, conflict behaviors and the freedom from fear of violence."

originally posted by: yuppa
Is it wrong to want a leader of a nation publicly executed? a assasins bullet when they are visiting some countrys dignitaries?
Of course it is but its looking like that might be needed in this instance.

I hope u are not talking or hinting at the Popes upcomming visit too the Middle East,
scary.
what if the World Leader survives as in
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;
and his deadly wound was healed:
and all the world wondered after the beast."

What then?

a reply to: BobAthome

well seeing as we are not in the tribulation yet i do not see that happenning. Also the pope isnt the AC.