Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: yuppa

Anyway according to reports the rusians are losing ground due to ukrainians pushing against the referendum cheaters.

According to reports the Russians are losing ground due to ukrainians pushing against the referendum cheaters? really they are losing based on reports made by the Pro Kiev Junta forces?

WAY TO MISS MY POST CLARIFYING WHAT I ACTUALLY MEANT.

Nice spin there but thats what you said there, you wish for the Russians and the whole region to be burnt.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

ON page 599. Here ill post my clarification on what i said. Youre trolling me i suggest stopping.

"Yeah i said i hope the region and russia burn in hell but i didnt say EVERYONE IN THEM THOUGH DID I?? I mean the traitors and troublemakers specifically."

Unless specifically said do not put words in peoples mouths. Also if al jazera is reporting what we have all been saying id actually take it to heart. They also have reported the pro russians are not in control of maripol now. RT is a s believable as
Irans PRESS TV or alex jones.

Here we are, again...

Well, here we are again...

An important and timely thread about an important issue totally derailed.

The original intent of the thread was to discuss the issue with something resembling calmness and maybe bring the underlying issues into focus...

Instead, we've got far off track and dived into whose ideology is evil, and who's on the side of the angels.

Personal insults. Ad hom attacks at anyone daring to disagree with you... ...and on and on and on. Several pages of it, wait, several hundred pages of it. Ignoring many, many mod requests to knock it off.

So, here we are...

This thread is going to close for a while. Those of you who've partaken of it with such great enthusiasm need to think about where you want to take this thread. Do you want to discuss possible solutions? That'd be great, by the way... Or do you want to discuss who the most evil side is...which is what helped bring us to this point. So maybe we don't want to go there, again...

We, the staff, are asking for some very simple things here, folks...

Keep it on topic. Now the issues here are many, and diverse...so there's a little leeway here, obviously...

Keep it civil. If you can't be nice, don't post. You can be passionate without being nasty to your fellow members. We're here to discuss ideas, and theories, not each other.

You have an issue with a fellow member? Let us know. That's why we have our fancy pink capes. Maybe, possibly, we can mediate, or suggest a way to work around that problem. It's what we do, and we're good at it, usually.

So...

Here it is. This thread is of undoubted importance. World events that could shape the very world your children will inherit. Doesn't it deserve a fair and balanced discussion? No one can possibly have all the answers...it might behoove you all to listen to those who disagree with you... Maybe, just maybe, they might have a good idea, or two.

Or between you? Maybe a solution will present itself.

This thread is temporarily closed...




reopened...

There is a pretty revealing article out by exiled Russian blogger Oleg Kashin regarding the Russian nationals at the helm of the Donetsk People's Republic...

From Crimea to the Donbass:
The Adventures of Igor Strelkov and Aleksandr Boroday

slon.ru...

Some English-translated excerpts from the Interpreter...

www.interpretermag.com...

A Russian political technologist [consultant] has become the prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic [DNR] — if someone was looking for the ‘hand of Moscow’ in Donetsk separatism, then the searches can be considered to have been successfully completed — here it is, that hand, and in that hand is a Russian passport.

I’d like, however, to be more precise: a Russian political technologist has not only become the prime minister of the DNR, but apparently, a bad Russian political technologist, because a good one, of course, would try to behave so that his ears would not stick out so much. He would lead behind someone’s back; in Donetsk, with a population of a million, it would not be hard to find a respected local person, some old meritorious coal miner, or professor, or doctor who could be the nominal prime minister, and no one would know that in the quiet of his office, someone was giving him advice or orders (it is even awkward to have to say this, these are just the basics, even the Soviet government, less seasoned in such matters, in similar situations, always behaved in that fashion, from the Baltics in the 1940s to Afghanistan in 1979 — even in the most complex situations, it was always possible to find a local Babrak Karmal, it would never have entered their minds to give official posts to Soviet emissaries.)

But the Russian political technologist Aleksandr Boroday for some reason put himself in charge of the Donetsk separatist government, as if he had decided to give a present to official Kiev, which will now wave this Boroday around at the UN and anywhere else, and say, look, Russia has even stopped hiding, they already openly flout all existing norms.

The article goes on to describe how Igor Strelkov and Aleksandr Boroday may be exceeding their original Kremlin mandate for just Crimea and now relying upon a combination of private patronage and ambition.

The question is, if it is now more of a privately-funded (proxy or not) movement in Donbass, who is doing the funding?

With all the Cossack mercenary and veteran 'volunteers', I would definitely say Alfa-Tsentr and the more Romanov-worshipping oligarchs.

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme
[snip]

The article goes on to describe how Igor Strelkov and Aleksandr Boroday may be exceeding their original Kremlin mandate for just Crimea and now relying upon a combination of private patronage and ambition.

The question is, if it is now more of a privately-funded (proxy or not) movement in Donbass, who is doing the funding?

With all the Cossack mercenary and veteran 'volunteers', I would definitely say Alfa-Tsentr and the more Romanov-worshipping oligarchs.

you are quite right about oligarchs being involved in South East crisis.
And there is one in particular pushing for civil war and animosity between people living there.

Ukrainian oligarch Igor Kolomoisky announced a $10,000 bounty for the capture of the pro-Russian forces who attacked the Mariupol Ukranian army base on Wednesday night and offered $45,396.20 to all of the men who successfully fought off the attackers.
Igor Kolomoisky, an energy tycoon who was appointed governor of the Dnipropetrovsk region in eastern Ukraine last month, also offered rewards for handing in weapons belonging to insurgents: $1,000 for each machine gun turned in to the authorities, $1,500 for every heavy machine gun and $2,000 for a grenade launcher.

www.breitbart.com...

The Israeli-Ukrainian oligarch living in Switzerland, Ihor Kolomoisky, called South-East pro-federalist leader, Oleg Tsarev, to inform him that the Ukrainian Jewish community was prepared to pay a bounty of $ 1 million to whoever would assassinate him. He ordered him to immediately flee the country

www.globalresearch.ca...

In the Internet appeared the record from which it follows that the customer bloody events of may 2 in Odessa was a Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky. In addition, a leaked recording that billionaire promises a million dollars for a head of the ex-candidate in presidents of Ukraine Oleg Tsarev.

The Network has infiltrated the recording from which it follows that Kolomoisky personally ordered the slaughter in Odessa on may 2, when the House of trade Unions militants “Right sector” were burnt alive more than 50 people. Phone conversation of President of the Association of the Suppliers of the customs Union,” Aleh Noginsk his interlocutor a certain Jan Borisovich, was intercepted by former employees of the security service of Ukraine (SBU), now calling themselves the United Cyberhooliganism Donetsk, Lugansk and Kharkiv regions.

mundodeimagens.net...

* Akhmetov urges employees to join peaceful protest at noon

* Condemns separatists who hold key areas of eastern cities

* Magnate formerly close to ousted president Yanukovich

KIEV, May 20 (Reuters) - Multi-billionaire Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine's richest man who owns factories across the troubled east, called on his employees to hold peaceful protests on Tuesday in defiance of separatists who plan to disrupt a May 25 presidential election.

In his strongest condemnation yet of the separatists, who have seized strategic points in towns in the heavily industrialised Russian-speaking east, Akhmetov urged people to unite "for Donbass without weapons! For Donbass without masks!"

Akhmetov, a coal and steel magnate who has an estimated 300,000 employees on his payroll, said Ukrainians should stage a "peaceful warning protest" at their companies from noon on Tuesday when sirens would sound across the region.

He said the action should continue daily "until peace is established" and he also urged motorists to join in the protest by sounding their horns.

The sharpness of Akhmetov's attack on the separatists, who he accused of waging a "genocide of the Donbass", appeared to confirm that he was now committed to supporting the efforts of the struggling interim government in Kiev to stabilise the situation in Ukraine with Sunday's presidential election.

www.trust.org...

rally for united Ukraine in Mariupol.
Ghost town.

as shelling of Slavyansk is getting more intense residential homes are becoming more exposed to destruction.
Result of last night attack by Junta's forces. 'United Ukraine' showing its true colours.


kids of Slavyansk hiding in shelter from Junta's shelling

The OSCE urged Kiev authorities to release the Russian journalists and to investigate the incident, saying that intimidation and obstruction of media working in the country is “unacceptable.”

21:20 GMT:
Russia has called for an unbiased investigation into the tragedy in the southern Ukrainian city of Odessa. “Russia insistently calls on the leadership of leading international organizations to use all capabilities to influence the Kiev regime which in essence is sabotaging the investigation,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement. Russian FM Sergey Lavrov has sent a relevant message to OSCE Chairperson-in-Office and Swiss President Didier Burkhalter, OSCE Secretary-General Lamberto Zannier, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay, and Council of Europe Secretary-General Thorbjorn Jagland. “The sent messages in particular emphasize the inadmissibility of closed consideration by the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada of the circumstances of that crime,” the ministry added. “Those guilty and initiators of what happened must be established and brought to account.”

15:11 GMT:
The parliament of the self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) banned preparations for the Ukrainian presidential election, set to take place on May 25. All the election commissions will be closed as “their activity is illegal on the territory of the LPR,” said Interfax, citing the parliamentary decision.

15:07 GMT:
The Ukrainian Interior Ministry is investigating four possible reasons for the deadly clashes in Odessa on May 2, according to the head of the ministry’s investigation department, Vitaly Sakal, who said the case could go to court in a month.

“There are four versions of what happened: first, an attempt by extremist groups to destabilize the situation in the country; second, illegal actions by local authorities and law enforcers with the purpose of discrediting the country’s government; third, uncontrolled actions by fans of the Chernomorets and the Metallist football clubs together with pro-Russian activists, accompanied by the passivity of authorities and the police; fourth, provocation by radical forces,” Sakal said.

The official also said 32 people died in the House of Trade Unions on May 2, after they inhaled chloroform vapors. Traces of the substance have, according to Sakal, been found in soot and litter at the House of Trade Unions.

protest in Odessa in front of the burned building, calls for referendum



Junta's forces struggling with angry people where ever they go
Commander having trouble to explain to people the reason of being there

originally posted by: dragonridr

* Akhmetov urges employees to join peaceful protest at noon

* Condemns separatists who hold key areas of eastern cities

* Magnate formerly close to ousted president Yanukovich

KIEV, May 20 (Reuters) - Multi-billionaire Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine's richest man who owns factories across the troubled east, called on his employees to hold peaceful protests on Tuesday in defiance of separatists who plan to disrupt a May 25 presidential election.

In his strongest condemnation yet of the separatists, who have seized strategic points in towns in the heavily industrialised Russian-speaking east, Akhmetov urged people to unite "for Donbass without weapons! For Donbass without masks!"

Akhmetov, a coal and steel magnate who has an estimated 300,000 employees on his payroll, said Ukrainians should stage a "peaceful warning protest" at their companies from noon on Tuesday when sirens would sound across the region.

He said the action should continue daily "until peace is established" and he also urged motorists to join in the protest by sounding their horns.

The sharpness of Akhmetov's attack on the separatists, who he accused of waging a "genocide of the Donbass", appeared to confirm that he was now committed to supporting the efforts of the struggling interim government in Kiev to stabilise the situation in Ukraine with Sunday's presidential election.

www.trust.org...

well when he felt he is going to loose everything he started to play 'patriotic' game.
Too late too little.

Russian Market ‏@russian_market 3m
#BREAKING PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF DONETSK ANNOUNCES NATIONALIZATION OF ALL FACTORIES

300 or so listen to akhmetov on screen in shaktar stadium. Told to come this morn. pic.twitter.com/aGiGhj8C4h

"People's Republic of Donetsk" oligarchs regards refusal to pay taxes to the budget of the republic as a "declaration of war", begins the process of nationalization and announce mobilization. Corresponding message will appear on your account "Donetsk republic" in Twitter. "Due to the reluctance of regional oligarchs to pay taxes to the budget DNR decided to begin the process of nationalization," - said one of the leaders of the DNI Dennis Pushilin. "Akhmetov made his choice. Unfortunately, this choice against the people of Donbass. Paying taxes means Kiev funding terror in the Donbas.
Больше читайте здесь: 112.ua...

google translation but not hard to understand.

Member of European Parliament from Latvia Tatiana Zhdanok encouraged to involve Ukrainian radical movement "Right Sector" to account for the use of chemical weapons in Odessa. "In Odessa, possibly with the participation of Ukrainian officials and local police, activists of the" right sector "created the conditions for allegedly accidental use of chemical weapons of mass destruction against the unarmed civilian

Apparently there might be an internal power struggle within Donbass separatists.

@ARothNYT

Tensions are very high between militias in Donbass now. Gorlovka crowd rolled into Donetsk and stormed local SBU for a 'commanders chat.'

@ARothNYT

Strelkov (head of Donbass military) deputy was denouncing Gorlovka commander in interviews for lack of discipline when Gorlovka boys arrived

RT 'journalist' Graham Phillips, has reportedly been captured and detained by Ukrainian army.

@MaximEristavi

Ukraine army captures another journalist: notorious @GrahamWP_UK, a stringer for @RT_com. The network confirms it

Graham was widely derided last week after claiming the Ukrainian army had fired upon him when approaching their lines. As it turns out, he had actually stepped on a proximity tripwire warning system but he continued to lie about it, forcing even RT to disavow his reporting.



Here is an audio interview with Graham post capture where he reports that he is ok and being treated well.

Ukraine risk assessment from @DmitryTymchuk as of 20 May, 2014.

The Kyiv Post reports that nearly a dozen election commission offices across Donetsk and Lugansk have been stormed by separatist militants today.

The gunmen seized 11 district elections offices and are threatening to capture at least eight more, news website Ukrainska Pravda and News Channel 24 reported, citing election officials. In most cases, the gunmen confiscated election documents, including ballots, from the offices...

In one incident at 11:30 a.m. on May 20, around 10 masked gunmen raided the city administration building in Artemivsk, a typically quiet city of some 80,000 people 86 kilometers north of Donetsk. They forced election officials there at gunpoint to hand over ballots, voter lists and other documents, an election official present told the Kyiv Post by phone minutes afterward.

The election official, who asked that his name not be published for fear of reprisals by the gunmen, said his office and the offices of his colleagues inside the city building on central Artema Street were stormed and that the gunmen forced them to march the boxes of documents outside to waiting vehicles.

The event lasted mere minutes, but terrified the elections staff, the official said. “We are all very, very scared. People are still standing here and we don’t know what to do,” he said 20 minutes after the incident.

China and Russia, renowned global champions of democracy, humanitarian rights and free speech, made a joint statement calling for end to use of unilateral sanctions as diplomatic means and also the end of 'regime change' tactics undermining the sovereignty of other nations.

From Kremlin-controlled media outlet, RT:

Moscow and Beijing have rejected the imposition of sanctions as political tools and condemned attempts at “encouraging and financing” regime changes in other countries in a joint statement released during President Putin’s official visit to China.

Having faced economic sanctions and threats of more of to come from the West, Russia has turned to the East, seeking to boost business ties in a friendlier environment. An impressive package of deals on energy, business and infrastructure has already been signed in Shanghai.

More is yet to come, judging by the title of the joint statement by Beijing and Moscow, which promises “a new stage in full-scale partnership and strategic relations.”

rt.com...

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Things arent going well China is trying to get Russsian gas cheap and Putin isnt desperate enough yet. China is going to rape Russia seeing as they know there future depends on them.

BEIJING — President Xi Jinping of China and the Russian leader, Vladimir V. Putin, were unable to announce an agreement on a natural gas deal on Tuesday, despite high expectations that mutual political interests would help finally push through the project.

Instead, commercial concerns continued to dominate — specifically, the price of the gas, which China and Russia have been haggling over for nearly a decade. After the meeting between the two leaders, Mr. Putin’s spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, said that talks were continuing.

According to Xinhua, the Chinese state news agency, after meeting Mr. Xi in Shanghai, Mr. Putin said, “I’m glad to be informed that the two sides have made significant progress in the price negotiation of the east route of the natural gas project.”

Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE

President Vladimir V. Putin was greeted by President Xi Jinping in Shanghai during his visit to China.Ukraine Crisis Pushing Putin Toward ChinaMAY 19, 2014
A joint statement said that Russian natural gas supplies would start flowing “as soon as possible,” a phrase used after many previous negotiations between Gazprom and the China National Petroleum Corporation, and an indication that the two sides could not close the gap on price in time for the two leaders to announce the deal at their meeting.

www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: dragonridr

Yeah that's why the Dow dropped. I guess. USA,USA, USA!

Or was it that Both Russia and China dumped the US Petro Dollar yesterday and agreed to settle in their own internal currencies. Even though this effects me, I laughing my ass off. www.zerohedge.com...