Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: dragonridr

Your argument holds no value, not at all convincing, infact disappointing.

Kiev knows better to whom the loyalty and honor should be.

Towards their own people or to be a "temporary" slavish server of the western interests against Russia.

Kiev is the smaller, weaker and bankrupt party here and it needs to take the first few steps. Russia is benevolent and will most definitely respond in kind.

However, any steps taken need to be genuine and with the intention of HONOR.

thousands of people queuing in Mariupol yesterday waiting patiently for their democratic rights to decide their future.
Senator McCain sent his regards and said he was sorry for not being able to attend.
Cookie lady Nuland also sent her regards and regretfully stated that she has no more cookies to give.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

Your argument holds no value, not at all convincing, infact disappointing.

Kiev knows better to whom the loyalty and honor should be.

Towards their own people or to be a "temporary" slavish server of the western interests against Russia.

Kiev is the smaller, weaker and bankrupt party here and it needs to take the first few steps. Russia is benevolent and will most definitely respond in kind.

However, any steps taken need to be genuine and with the intention of HONOR.

If armed men shoot into a crowd the crowd runs this looks so staged as to be comical. If your standing there with 4 masked men shooting at you and you dont run you would be stupid. Crowd doesnt panic in the least bit they act like this happens all the time. Sorry guy looks staged drop a dead body get some actors and tada fake scene.

a reply to: dragonridr

Of course it is staged.. Without Russia invading the South and East portions of Ukraine the illegal referendum that was held would be nothing more than a waste. They cant hold / rig a referendum and have nothing come from it. If they did that it would lead to people asking questions about Russian loyalty to them.

With one of the self proclaimed coup leaders speaking after the referendum, he stated that any Ukraine military units in the province would be declared illegal and stated their priority is to put together military units of their own.

Of course we all know what that entails... Russian cowards in unmarked uniforms given the name of "self defense forces".

Can anyone tell me how the "leaders" in these eastern and southern areas of Ukraine came to power? From what I have seen they used armed men to seize the local governments and then self appointed.

Irony wrapped in hypocrisy for the loss.

The results wont be accepted by anyone other than Russia and its tiny collection of support countries it threatened. The Ukraine army is present in those areas.

Putin has 2 choices -
end in the Russian military.
cut his losses and stop.


The question on the ballot - BBC-

What is the aim of the referendum?

The objective of the referendum has changed several times. Initially, the vote was meant to decide on the federalisation of Ukraine and grant higher status to the Russian language. Later, self-proclaimed leaders said people should be asked whether they wanted their regions to join Russia "Crimea-style".

The ballot papers contain only one question in both Ukrainian and Russian: "Do you support the act of state self-reliance of the Donetsk People's Republic?"

Representatives of the self-proclaimed state have said they intend to hold a second round of the referendum on 18 May, this time on the republic joining the Russian Federation.

The referendum is taking place in the cities and towns controlled by separatists in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions.

The Donetsk republic's election chief, Roman Lyakhin, said that since the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) had blocked access to up-to-date voter registers, the referendum would use voter rolls from the 2012 parliamentary election.

About three million ballot papers are said to have been printed, with the combined population of the two regions standing at about 6.7 million. Ukrainian TV has shown ballot papers being printed on a regular printer and bearing no protection marks.

As the separatists control only some towns and cities, it is not yet clear how much of the territory of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic the referendum will actually cover. Recently, SBU chief Valentyn Nalyvaychenko issued an official warning to 27 mayors in the Donetsk, Luhansk and Mykolayiv regions that they could face criminal punishment if they engaged in separatist actions.

The pro-Russian separatist Army of the Southeast intends to count the votes and publish the results of the referendum three days after the voting is over.

I like how they blame Ukraine for the voter roll info. When media kept asking for those documents from the separatists they were told that info would not be released.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: dragonridr

Of course it is staged.. Without Russia invading the South and East portions of Ukraine the illegal referendum that was held would be nothing more than a waste. They cant hold / rig a referendum and have nothing come from it. If they did that it would lead to people asking questions about Russian loyalty to them.

With one of the self proclaimed coup leaders speaking after the referendum, he stated that any Ukraine military units in the province would be declared illegal and stated their priority is to put together military units of their own.

Of course we all know what that entails... Russian cowards in unmarked uniforms given the name of "self defense forces".

Can anyone tell me how the "leaders" in these eastern and southern areas of Ukraine came to power? From what I have seen they used armed men to seize the local governments and then self appointed.

Irony wrapped in hypocrisy for the loss.

The results wont be accepted by anyone other than Russia and its tiny collection of support countries it threatened. The Ukraine army is present in those areas.

Putin has 2 choices -
end in the Russian military.
cut his losses and stop.

No really did you watch it camera conveniently avoids that area than suddenly theres a body with a pool of blood.All the while the masked gunman retreat inside the building. I mean there right inside the door and these people mull around as if the director forgot to tell them to react. See anywhere on the planet if you have people with guns shooting at you and the guy next to you drops your reaction is to run. These people were like hey look a body where did that come from??? Wow Russian media is desprate if that were put on western media it would have been torn apart in seconds. Everyone would be screaming false flag and asking the government how stupid do you think we are?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: dragonridr

Of course it is staged.. Without Russia invading the South and East portions of Ukraine the illegal referendum that was held would be nothing more than a waste. They cant hold / rig a referendum and have nothing come from it. If they did that it would lead to people asking questions about Russian loyalty to them.

With one of the self proclaimed coup leaders speaking after the referendum, he stated that any Ukraine military units in the province would be declared illegal and stated their priority is to put together military units of their own.

Of course we all know what that entails... Russian cowards in unmarked uniforms given the name of "self defense forces".

Can anyone tell me how the "leaders" in these eastern and southern areas of Ukraine came to power? From what I have seen they used armed men to seize the local governments and then self appointed.

Irony wrapped in hypocrisy for the loss.

The results wont be accepted by anyone other than Russia and its tiny collection of support countries it threatened. The Ukraine army is present in those areas.

Putin has 2 choices -
end in the Russian military.
cut his losses and stop.

No really did you watch it camera conveniently avoids that area than suddenly theres a body with a pool of blood.All the while the masked gunman retreat inside the building. I mean there right inside the door and these people mull around as if the director forgot to tell them to react. See anywhere on the planet if you have people with guns shooting at you and the guy next to you drops your reaction is to run. These people were like hey look a body where did that come from??? Wow Russian media is desprate if that were put on western media it would have been torn apart in seconds. Everyone would be screaming false flag and asking the government how stupid do you think we are?

I would not be so quick to dismiss the footage from Mariupol as fake.

There is enough paranoia and mistrust now that a young and inexperienced soldier (apparently these troops were national guard) could definitely get anxious and fire at a group of civilians not following instructions. The crowd seemed to be confronting the soldiers, not believing they would ever be shot by their own military. But something snapped and the camera angle was wholly inadequate for us to see what.

At this point all of the Russian agitation has set the scene. Ukraine is now ripe for a bloody civil war.

To a much greater degree than when people are fighting against an oppressive regime -- when people begin to fight their own people, that is when things get truly vicious.

I hope it is worth it to those defiant ones who say they'll fight against each other no matter what. How tragic, when all of this could be solved by a legitimate vote inside Ukraine without secession.

I really fear the worst now, for all sides. So sad to imagine these cities laying in smoldering ruins like those of Chechnya or Bosnia.

If only a dominant moderate voice could emerge in Ukraine and convince people not to walk over the precipice.

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

I agree its very possible this video though lets look at it a moment. First in other parts we see Pro Russians actively defending themselves anytime there is the least provocation.In this video looks like maybe a police station yet no reports from Kiev on the incident. It would have been a very big deal taking over a separatist stronghold dont you think? In the video you see them clearly firing into the air but suddenly people everywhere are hit. i saw another angle for this its even worse. I swear the man actually steps over the body than goes to yelling at the shooters again then turns around as if cued than walks over to it doesnt bend down just walks away like he was going to get help. Than a guy shows up with a magic marker like hes a murder investigator than the ambulance shows up. Notice the ambulance does seem to be in a hurry no lights siren nothing. And all the while the gunman who supposedly did this are inside the building watching. Yet no one tries to do anything even get a policeman as minimum. After all separatists claim the police is working for them.

If a person with an AK 100 shoots people in the crowd there not going to stick around this would have to be the biddest idiots on the planet you go home get your gun and retake the building. Notice not a peep about a building being freed by separatists so those alleged gunman are still there. No official word from the Donetsk republic of having to close down one of there voting stations due to this incident. They only had 4 if you dont count the one in Moscow for 6 million people i might add.Im sure this would have been a very big deal for our self appointed mayor. This video was uploaded to Youtube with virtually no information other than a claim it was a polling station by the way RT was at each of the polling stations today it was a big deal for them even doing live feeds on there website. So im afraid were looking at a very poorly done piece of fiction.

Give it a rest guys, people having a choice beats having none at all.
careful what you might be supporting..
peace
human out

a reply to: all2human


I dont think Ukrainians have been given a choice do to outside influences. Russia has left them with the lesser of two evils thing. When this originally started They were reluctant to join EU now they were forced to just to survive. This is destroying Ukrainian lives over a turf war between Russia and the EU.Me personally i think they need to separate but that just isnt practical were really talking a small area wanting to leave Ukraine. And dont buy into Kiev is run by NAZIs. Putin saw this as losing control of his puppet.

jpupdates.com...

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

For once I can agree with you, with the exception of the russian aggitation remark. To dismiss this video is retarded. But I can see why they would want to deny it.Doesn't help their sides, image now does it? The first victim was shot up close and personal right in front of the camera and we the viewers. If they shot the first without blinking, why would you even bother disputing the second? It would also be wise to assume there were even more, sometime after the clip.

Why didn't they run? Pffft. I have been in worse situations than that the poor guy that was shot first. I never ran either, it is a confrontation and adrenilin is high, plus you are there for a purpose. Under such circumstances, you become descencetized to what is going on around you and you never think you will be the other guy.These people have been shot at for weeks. The last time I had a gun in my face, I laughed so hard that the tuff patched biker who was there to kill me, lost his nerve and bought me a carton of beer.

Those above arguing this, are nothing but pathic arm chair commentators.That haven't even donated blood.

So what snapped, the gunmen, simply lost their nerve.Happens alot.

For the record we're trying to keep for the thread in general.... This crossed Breakingnews.com feeds recently this morning on the referendum.

Ukraine would seem to be saying No.



Russia would seem to be saying Yes.


Breakingnews - Ukraine area

They are definitely not positions which can co-exist. So....it sounds like it will be interesting to watch for the immediate future.

* The captures were from the same screen for the sense of relative time and that screen was within 20 minutes or so of the time this posted.

08:20 GMT:
Moscow hopes the results of the referendums in eastern Ukraine will instigate dialogue between Kiev and the regions that voted in favor of self-rule, according to the Kremlin’s press-service.

“Moscow respects the will of the people in Donetsk and Lugansk and hopes that the practical realization of the outcome of the referendums will be carried out in a civilized manner, without resorting to violence, through dialogue between representatives of Kiev, Donetsk and Lugansk,” the statement reads.

The Kremlin says it welcomes all mediation efforts, including those by the OSCE.

08:13 GMT:
Two more people have died over the weekend following the violent clashes and unrest in Odessa on May 2, which has brought the death toll up to 48, as reports RIA Novosti. 43 people remain in hospital, two of which are in a critical condition according Odessa.ua, who made the announcement on Monday.

08:03 GMT:
The head of the Donetsk Region’s administration, Sergey Taruta has praised the decision by Metinvest, which is owned by local oligarch Rinat Akhmetov, to set up a combined defense force with the police to help protect the citizens of Mariupol. “400 citizens along with 200 people from the police force will really help because less there will be less people with guns on the street,” Taruta stated according to Interfax. He added that the local population in the East of Ukraine were scared of armed people and wanted to restore order to their cities. Metinvest had stated they wanted to bring an end to armed operations in the East of Ukraine and remove military hardware and troops from civilian areas.

07:48 GMT:
British Foreign Secretary William Hague says eastern Ukraine's referendum votes have "zero credibility in the eyes of the world," Sky News reports.

06:01 GMT:
Ukrainian troops have begun shelling Slavyansk, Donetsk Region, a RIA Novosti correspondent on the ground reports.

Kiev forces starting to use heavy weaponry in Slavyansk region.
Result of last night shelling of residential area. No info on civilian victims if any.

Could someone throw up a map of the areas involved in the referendum just for illustration?

At least 3 people died in the voting as the amry shot people so yes the vote was fixed and now anyone that wants a vote needs the permision of the USA or so it would seem and lets forget about the Bush election were the jury is still out.

It was only two months ago where we were all told that everyone wanted Russia out of the Ukraine and they all hated Putin but Mr Putin has 80% + approval at home from his people and thats a number Obama can only ever dream about.

48 that got locked inside a building and burnt to death were unable to attend the polling stations and many old people dare not face the army on the street to make a vote but still if you want to argue that they need to swing a vote 40 points past the amount needed to win then do be upset if people don't buy in to your theory.

Anyway how is the Russian invasion going guys, got any pictures of blown up tanks for me or maybe a few fighter jets being shoot at ! Did'nt think so

a reply to: Xcathdra

Can anyone tell me how the "leaders" in these eastern and southern areas of Ukraine came to power? From what I have seen they used armed men to seize the local governments and then self appointed.

No mate it was Kiev that used guns to remove the elected leader and the army is on the streets killing people in the east of the Ukraine who are trying to vote ! Are you sure you know where the Ukraine is on a map.

The east is the area where the neo-nazi's locked 48 people inside a building and roasted the protestors to death as the amy took pot shots at anyone trying the escape or don't they show that type of stuff on fox news anymore.

Border guards' car attacked in Luhansk region:

society.lb.ua...

Two employees of the State Border Service injured.

In Sverdlovsk, Luhansk region , armed men in camouflage fired at the car "Niva" with the border guards , two of them wounded.

This was reported on the website of the MVD.

"I just received information that in the city of Sverdlovsk , Astakhovo village , near the checkpoint Deakovo five armed men dressed in camouflage clothing , fired at the car " Niva " , which went to border guards . According to available information - two of guards were wounded , "- said in a statement.

Left at the scene investigative team Sverdlovsk city police department . Circumstances of the accident are established .

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000


Ukraine would seem to be saying No.

Russia would seem to be saying Yes.

farrrrrk. they finally have found a point they can both argue over.

"This is legit"
"No it isn't"
"yeah, well try and make us leave!"

your move Ukraine!

they can't even get this right.
CNN placing Eastern Ukraine into Pakistan.



vine.co...