Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: ProfessorT

Professor you come on the straight line..........but it takes some time !!

Nevertheless..............I find NO NO NO human civil honor in shooting unarmed (just shouting) people. Use pepper spray, stun batons, tear gas etc.

Very sad indeed !

Gaddaffi did that type of shooting and paid the price. Kiev junta is doing it and WILL pay the price soon.

a reply to: yuppa

Not Ukrainians? Those are residents of this town. They are citizens, they were born there, their parents were born there, their grandparents were born there and so on ... You're saying, that if they are ethnic Russians, they're allowed to be killed? Don't you understand what is wrong with that statement? Everyone in the USA is ethnic Irish, British, French ... and so on. So under Geneva convention someone could kill everyone in the USA and it would be legal? NO!!!! But it's legal in Ukraine to kill unarmed residents because, they are ethnic Russians. Why?

a reply to: ProfessorT

So let me get this straight, you sit here behind your keyboard on this forum doing everything you can to justify the slaughter of civillians by armed militaries and basically blaming those being killed for being killed.

Yet, you do not even have the BALLS to watch a damned video proving the very things you are denying and unwittingly supporting? Give me a freakin break man.

You wont even watch the video and yet youll still say they deserved to be killed. Un freakin believable!

Question for you Pro-Kiev people - Why are you okay with how the Maidan protesters were armed - ahooting police officers on video - and yes even pictures - and that was fine and dandy yet these people are armed so they deserve to be slaughter?

That is pretty sick. Gotta love what bias can do to your judgement eh?

You have dehumanized the people of Eastern Ukraine and thus this is all okay to you....sigh...

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: baburak

All I see is 3 men unarmed "just shouting" men shot needlessly !!!!!!!

What is Putin waiting for ?? This is barbaric !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is called giving them enough rope.He will be their soon enough and he will be respected for it.Check mate.

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: ProfessorT

So let me get this straight, you sit here behind your keyboard on this forum doing everything you can to justify the slaughter of civillians by armed militaries and basically blaming those being killed for being killed.

Yet, you do not even have the BALLS to watch a damned video proving the very things you are denying and unwittingly supporting? Give me a freakin break man.

You wont even watch the video and yet youll still say they deserved to be killed. Un freakin believable!

Question for you Pro-Kiev people - Why are you okay with how the Maidan protesters were armed - ahooting police officers on video - and yes even pictures - and that was fine and dandy yet these people are armed so they deserve to be slaughter?

That is pretty sick. Gotta love what bias can do to your judgement eh?

You have dehumanized the people of Eastern Ukraine and thus this is all okay to you....sigh...

I have not said anything like that at all. But if it suits you, carry on making stuff up.

If Ukrainian soldiers did shoot at and kill unarmed civilians it should be condemned and the correct course of action taken by the relevant authorities to bring those soldiers in front of a judge in a court of law.

a reply to: victor7

Well i saw a group chasing the soldiers down the street. Because i saw soldiers run by no one on the street. Than when they ran buy people stood on the street oddest thing why didnt those people leave the area? Anyway than i saw a group of people with molotovs and handguns chasing them down the street. Biggest problem is there military hasnt been trained at all on how to handle it. There response run down the street opening up the area of engagement.This does nothing but guarantee civilian casualties there instincts were wrong. Instead of running you close the distance to your attackers just shows a complete lack of training when you see them run from handguns and molotovs. Ukraine cannot use these troops in there cities casualties will be high.

a reply to: ProfessorT

That is true. But it kind of sounded at first glance like you meant it. You have to understand that this is pretty emotional topic for many people.

But those 'soldiers' cannot be brought in front of a judge in a court of law because Turchinov said that these people are terrorists. I didn't see one terrorist (if you overlook those so called 'soldiers') in the video which was removed. Turchinov and Avakov already said that everything was legal and they even praised those soldiers.

P.S.: I am kind of glad that my video was removed because it was too graphic. But I still think that the world should know what really happened there. In a short form: genocide.

You know what?

I've had enough. You guys can continue to purposely distort my posts and word your posts in such a way to meet your agendas. Way to go...really classy.

If you can't debate without attacking me for posting my view which was entirely objective, then I'm afraid my time is up here.

I at no point suggested those who were killed should have been because they were or may have been carrying weapons and/or engaged in shooting at the soldiers. What I did say is that I had posted pictures and seen video of people from that crowd carrying firearms and shooting/pointing them at the Ukrainian soldiers.

Seriously guys - we all have different opinions on what's going in Ukraine at the moment but it's really underhanded to start re-arranging my words and making things up.

Anyway,

You won - well done.

Bye ATS.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: victor7

Well i saw a group chasing the soldiers down the street. Because i saw soldiers run by no one on the street. Than when they ran buy people stood on the street oddest thing why didnt those people leave the area? Anyway than i saw a group of people with molotovs and handguns chasing them down the street. Biggest problem is there military hasnt been trained at all on how to handle it. There response run down the street opening up the area of engagement.This does nothing but guarantee civilian casualties there instincts were wrong. Instead of running you close the distance to your attackers just shows a complete lack of training when you see them run from handguns and molotovs. Ukraine cannot use these troops in there cities casualties will be high.

Do not give excuse for lack of training here. NONSENSE !!!!!!!!!!!

Even a 14 year old would know not to shoot unless attacked.

ONLY AN EVIL MOTHERf###### WOULD SHOOT AT UNARMED HAND SPREAD/RAISED PEOPLE.


ARGUMENTS LIKE YOURS AND PROFESSOR SHOW VERY LOW GRADE OF MORALITY.

I HAVE TO BE CANDID HERE !!!!!!

a reply to: dragonridr

First: about the men with molotovs. At one point in the video they (2 of them) tried to give molotovs to people, saying: "Take the cocktail". Everyone attacked him that he is a paid provocator and that he should get the f... out of there. Not one person took the cocktail.

I didn't see a shooter at first. And he is with protesters, you are right. But you can also see that he is shooting after the 'soldiers' shot two unarmed people (you can say self-defense) who were in the front line with their hands in the air, and one of them who got shot in the head (I think the bullet just glanced him) was on his knees. What kind of danger they posed to the soldiers?

You are right, that these soldiers don't have training. Most of them just signed up for the military about a month ago after the new government started it's campaign. Almost all of them come from Western Ukraine and came there just because of the money. Few thousand (real) soldiers said, that they're with protesters. Most of the rest said, that they will not fight against Ukrainian residents. Because of that Ukraine took everyone in and gave them guns and small monthly paycheck.

So, whose fault is it that people got shot?

P.S.: about man that got shot on 1:47 - there are soldiers on the side of the building there too. They're seen in the video that was shot on the other side of the street. I can't find the video but I will post it for you as soon as I do.

P.S.2: I advice you remove the video because my last post was completely removed because of it. It's too graphic.(I see I was too late with my advice)

originally posted by: baburak
a reply to: dragonridr

First: about the men with molotovs. At one point in the video they (2 of them) tried to give molotovs to people, saying: "Take the cocktail". Everyone attacked him that he is a paid provocator and that he should get the f... out of there. Not one person took the cocktail.

I didn't see a shooter at first. And he is with protesters, you are right. But you can also see that he is shooting after the 'soldiers' shot two unarmed people (you can say self-defense) who were in the front line with their hands in the air, and one of them who got shot in the head (I think the bullet just glanced him) was on his knees. What kind of danger they posed to the soldiers?

You are right, that these soldiers don't have training. Most of them just signed up for the military about a month ago after the new government started it's campaign. Almost all of them come from Western Ukraine and came there just because of the money. Few thousand (real) soldiers said, that they're with protesters. Most of the rest said, that they will not fight against Ukrainian residents. Because of that Ukraine took everyone in and gave them guns and small monthly paycheck.

So, whose fault is it that people got shot?

P.S.: about man that got shot on 1:47 - there are soldiers on the side of the building there too. They're seen in the video that was shot on the other side of the street. I can't find the video but I will post it for you as soon as I do.

P.S.2: I advice you remove the video because my last post was completely removed because of it. It's too graphic.(I see I was too late with my advice)

edit on 10-5-2014 by baburak because: (no reason given)

Yeah i saw him hes between the tent and the building you see him twice in the video both times he is holding the AK at rest and i guarantee if he fired it we would have heard the clack AKs make a noise like no other weapon on earth you really cant mistake them for any other weapon. And i heard the pop but i didnt hear the clack those shots were not from AKs unless Ukraine has a diffrent model than the rest of the planet. Ive heard that sound so many times its very distinctive.

The illegal junta in Kiev which cannot even win the trust of its own police and army and has to resort to hiring "thugs for pay", will soon find the real meaning and costs of "short term opportunism" and "treacherous demeanor".

Since 1991, Russia gave subsidies worth $200B to Ukraine and in return Kiev is playing the messenger of treachery.

REMINDER!!!!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe

Listen up!!!!!

Now that I have your attention......
This is your final warning.
Post bans WILL be given to members who cannot stay on topic.
This thread will not further devolve into bickering, baiting and trolling.

Plenty of reminders have been given.
The next step is a post ban, possibly for up to 72 hours.
Please think before you post.

You are responsible for your own posts.

Don't Respond to Obvious Trollery, Just Alert It

I Don't Agree with YOU...

How Not To Be Banned From ATS...Or, A Word About Politeness.

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