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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:29 PM

originally posted by: sosobad

Thank you for posting these.

If the Kyiv government does not identify and arrest this person, they will lose what little remaining credibility they have when it comes to maintaining law and order.

There were undoubtedly many armed and aggressive pro-Russian activists that day. And it is also well established that their violent actions provoked the crowds.

But this shooter on the pro-Ukraine side is more deliberate in his actions than most. He is clearly an opportunist with an agenda.

Provocateurs exist on both sides, although I would not be so quick to blame Europe or the States.

I would agree that this man fits the definition of a 'fascist'.

So sad how these types of conflicts always seem to attract and empower the worst sociopaths on all sides. The same happened in the Balkan wars where the worst criminal types became influential leaders.

None of these men on either side value democracy or humanitarian values.
edit on 4-5-2014 by ALoveSupreme because: typo as its hard to type on touchscreen with nails

posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:37 PM
To those playing on emotions reference the dead people -

Reason for forensics -

In addition to cause of death, which is not nearly as simple as some of you like to think it is, can also reveal time of death in addition to location of death. Just because a body is found does not mean its where the death occurred. It can also determine how a person dies RE: gunshots, angle / trajectory of bullet etc. It allows a determination to be made if the person was standing, sitting, lying down, running towards / away from, distance the person was from the shot.

Other forensic evidence - GSR (Gun shot residue), entrance/exit wounds/stippling, distance of weapon by GSR, GSR on the hands of the victims to determine if they were armed , discharged a weapon.

Bullet recovery can determine type of weapon / ammo used, can be compared against video footage.

Blunt force - type of item used, angle of impact, position of body when blows were struck. Blood spattering near the bodies can also determine angle of impact, force of impact, position of body at the time of impacts.

Burned bodies - cause of death / based on remains how long a body was burned, possible initial location of fire on the body, intensity of heat/flames, etc.

Does it matter if people are dead? Absolutely.

It can establish other avenues of death and can possibly lead to definitive proof of who is involved while at the same time it can clear people who were not involved.

All which can be used in a trial.

So while I understand the emotional response you and some others seem to have, a 100 meter rush to judgment based on irrational logic / mob mentality / need for revenge can result in more innocent people being killed for no reason other than they support one side or the other.

How about people allow an investigation to occur and put your pitchforks and torches away fro the moment.

posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:39 PM

originally posted by: BobAthome

but ya ok your right,,

"it was founded in the Ukraine."

i'm starting too see where,,, "elitism", gets it's roots.

I promise I mean no disrespect. But honestly, I find most of your comments unintelligible.

You posted some images of what I believe are American feminists from previous periods.

My only intention in posting that image was to show that there were anti-fascist groups there that day as well. Not everything can be so grossly simplified, always blamed on 'Right Sector'.

The New York Times article I posted yesterday showed a similar complexity about the separatists.

I highly suggest you and everybody read it. People's motivations are not so simple, on both sides.

posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:43 PM
a reply to: AnIntellectualRedneck

Mikhail Khodorkovsky,,loyal russian aft all.

posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:43 PM
a reply to: BobAthome

wow beat the time out, but spelling #s,,
test , test

posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:44 PM

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: AnIntellectualRedneck

Mikhail Khodorkovsky,,loyal russian aft all.

bad Europe,,bad.

posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:46 PM
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

time out bug,,

be more forgiving.

keep shrt
edit on 5/4/2014 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:03 AM

originally posted by: cosmonova
Day after in Odessa, police guarding the building where people died.
Notice the nazi sign on the left.

this is another grafitti left behind on the building where dozens of people died, just a reminder who was behind this
attrocity. 'SS Galician' grafitti says it all.

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:04 AM
Very strange change in the narrative of Odessa now coming from RT.

They now seem to be suggesting that the pro-Russians who initially provoked the pro-Ukranian crowds might not have been actually been pro-Russians.

Or at the very least they were not the same pro-Russians who became trapped in the Trade Unions building.

Very odd and unclear what they are suggesting!

RT article

The violence started when the pro-Kiev crowd was met by what looked like anti-government activists. They were wearing St. George ribbons – identifying them as pro-autonomy – and red bands around their sleeves. Some of the riot police officers present at the scene were wearing the same red bands around their sleeves.

Then the visibly smaller group of alleged anti-Kiev activists started to attack the march, apparently provoking the demonstrators. Footage then shows a smaller group men wearing red bands luring the pro-Kiev crowd into a different direction.

At some point, the police line opened up to let the men wearing red bands through and closed back up again. A video then shows a man standing behind the police lines shooting at the pro-Kiev crowd.

The provocations succeeded in triggering clashes, as both sides began to throw stones, and shots were heard.

The alleged anti-Kiev activists then disappeared and angry pro-Kiev supporters headed to the opposition camp based in front of the House of Trade Unions.

However, none of the original attackers with the red bands were there. Instead, a few dozen pro-autonomy activists were surrounding the camp. When the activists saw the angry mob approaching, they took shelter inside the House of Trade Unions.

Survivors of the fire say they had to barricade themselves inside the House of Trade Unions to hide from the agitated mob, which torched their tent camp.

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:09 AM
might be appro.

quoted from the Article
"In truth, it was probably all of the above combined that sealed the fate of the USSR."
while the Author lists a litany of cause's he forgets one, that in my opinion, was fundamental in Russia's Conversion, from Communist too Christian,

in my opinion.

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:10 AM
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

All Warfare Is Based Upon Deception - Sun Tzu

By constantly infusing confusion Moscow can continue to play the Ukrainian people against each other, lessening its involvement by being able to portray it as nothing more than confusion.

RT ‏@RT_com · 12m
Provocation gone wrong: Murky forces instigating #Odessa violence? #Ukraine

The Moscow Times ‏@MoscowTimes · 19m
Putin and Merkel Discuss Ukraine in Phone Call #news

edit on 5-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:14 AM

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 2h
It's the shale stupid! The Strategic Importance of Sloviansk http://(link tracking not allowed)/1fK43vI |EMPR #Ukraine

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 2h
#Russia Starts Combat #Helicopter Training Flights near the #Baltic Border @CustosDivini | EMPR News

edit on 5-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 2h
#Donetsk RSA now: men w/ guns became a trend. #Putin continue to call them "peaceful" locals -photo @euromaidan |EMPR

edit on 5-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:17 AM

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: cosmonova
Day after in Odessa, police guarding the building where people died.
Notice the nazi sign on the left.

this is another grafitti left behind on the building where dozens of people died, just a reminder who was behind this
attrocity. 'SS Galician' grafitti says it all.

How convenient for there to be SS graffiti on the building.

Anybody else getting suspicious that there is more to Odessa than we are seeing?

This is just speculation -- but is it possible that the same entity would place provocateurs on both sides of the riot?

And I am thinking mainly of the people who had the guns. Anybody else notice how they don't necessarily always fit with the rest?

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:22 AM
Another reason for the need to investigate the incident in Odessa and for both sides to chill -

"Odesa. This will not be shown on Russian TV channels. Because Ukrainians are not people, they are beasts, sadists, and Banderites. That is what you are supposed to think."

[Ukrainian residents in Odesa carry scaffold and help pro-Russian extremists trapped by flames on upper floor of burning House of Trade Unions building get out alive.]

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:29 AM
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Because its all they have left to use...

When the bs argument about attacks on ethnic Russians didn't pan out, Russia has consistently used differing actions to distract and cause mass confusion in Ukraine.

As I stated some time back when the Kiev government pulled a 180 and agreed with Russia to allow for more power in the provinces, it took the knees out from under Putin, who banked on that plan being rejected by Ukraine, who had done so up until that day. It caused even more problems when Ukraine said that question would be on the ballots for the May 25th Presidential elections.

Moscow went into overdrive and had to come up with new plans to somehow force the situation prior to the elections. When that did not work, we saw the self appointed coup members in the south and east of Ukraine all of a sudden set votes for May 11th. Even the wording to be used was out of the Crimea occupation text book.

Why the 11th? because if they wait until the 25th the election would be monitored by observers who would get full access and not limited access like Crimea. The Constitution of Ukraine would be used, which means all of Ukraine would need to vote on any change in territorial status. The ballot counts would be done again with independent observers, which did not occur in Crimea.

Everything Russia has tried has failed, miserably, to the point they are now desperately trying to figure a way out and none is presenting itself. If Putin does not invade, he is done.

Like I was saying -

The Moscow Times ‏@MoscowTimes · 11m
#Russia to Bring Ukrainian Government and Rebels to Negotiating Table #news

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin has said the Kiev government needs help to establish a dialogue with pro-Russian activists in southeastern Ukraine and that steps would soon be taken to bring this about.

"It appears that without external help the Kiev authorities are not capable of establishing such a dialogue," Karasin told Rossiya-24 television on Sunday.

He said a Ukrainian military operation, aimed at retaking rebel-held territory, was in breach of an agreement signed in Geneva last month that was intended to defuse the crisis.

"In the coming days, new efforts will be taken ... to sit the Kiev authorities and representatives of the south-east at the negotiating table," Karasin said.

He gave no further details.

Kiev and Moscow blame each other for unrest in the southern city of Odessa, where at least 42 people were killed on Friday in a street battle between supporters and opponents of Russia.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and his U.S. counterpart John Kerry agreed in a telephone call on Saturday that the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe should play a bigger role in reducing tension.

The Putin end game starts and he will now try to cut his losses, and by extension, those doing his bidding in Ukraine.

All that is left is for Russia to undermine the meetings and blame the Ukrainians. My wager is the meeting will come before May 11th for obvious reasons.
edit on 5-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:44 AM
REference this -

RT ‏@RT_com · 9m
Man shooting at windows of #Odessa’s burning House of Trade Unions caught on tape #Ukraine

Can anyone for sure state he was not being shot at and was returning fire?

Moscow's coercive Diplomacy

Another Russian disinfo operation?
Odesa Doctor Or Random Dentist? Claims Of Atrocities, Anti-Semitism Face Scrutiny

t was a disturbing detail of the deadly violence that unfolded in Odesa on May 2: A local doctor claimed Ukrainian nationalists prevented him from saving a man's life and warned that the city's Jews would soon be dead also.

But less than 24 hours after it began circulating widely on Facebook, this testimony appeared to be unraveling as a potential hoax.

The claims were made on the Facebook page of a user purporting to be a 39-year-old doctor in Odesa named Igor Rozovskiy on May 3, the same day that the account was created.

"As a doctor I hurried to assist those who could still be saved, but I was stopped by militants who would not let me approach a wounded man," the user wrote. "One of them shoved me aggressively and vowed that soon I and other Jews in Odesa awaited the same fate. ...Nothing like this happened in my city even under fascist occupation."

Skepticism about the claims emerged quickly as well, however, and bloggers who began scratching at the surface of the Facebook post say it appears to be part of a coordinated disinformation campaign.

The photograph on the Facebook page appears to be that of Ruslan Semenov, a dentist based in Ust-Dzheguta, a town in the Karachai-Cherkessia Republic in Russia's restive North Caucasus region.

It was not immediately clear why, if the Facebook page is legitimate, the author might have used Semenov's photograph.

"Unfortunately, Russia, which for the third straight month is engaging in open warfare against Ukraine, works professionally in this sphere," blogger Maksim Savanevskyy wrote on the website of the "Ukrainskaya Pravda" newspaper.

Savanevskyy noted that after the Russian-language post began gathering critical mass online, identical translations began circulating in English, German, and Bulgarian.

The government in Kyiv and its allies in the West have accused Russia of engaging in a propaganda campaign aimed at ratcheting up tensions and frightening the population in eastern Ukraine about potential repressions by fascists.

The Russian Foreign Ministry, meanwhile, issued a May 4 statement accusing Western countries of an "information blockade" about the bloodshed in eastern Ukraine.

Last month, Russian state-owned broadcaster Rossia 1 interviewed a man they claimed was a pro-Russian protester assaulted by "radical" pro-Kyiv supporters. The same man, meanwhile, told another Russian network, state-friendly NTV, that he was a German mercenary financing unrest in Ukraine.

Click link for remainder of article and investigation.
edit on 5-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:48 AM
people of Mariupol, quite interesting to hear what they have to say

this is translation:

0:00 – 0:14 Hello. This is Mariopol, the 4th of May, evening time – the office of the Privat Bank at the centre of the city. That is the thing. We have no affiliation to these fires that have happened.
0:17 - 0:30 – We are peaceful citizens of the city of Mariopol. We have no weapons. We are not terrorists (stop turning, no, just hold it like that, yes)
0:30 – 0:41 Here, look at my weapon. This is how I will protect myself. We are expecting all sorts of things, from those scoundrels. I have only a slingshot and a stone, I have nothing else, nothing else.
0:41 – And Turchinov, he’s a scoundrel. He will answer by the law of warfare time, for his criminal orders. (maybe the sound is too quiet, some may cannot hear, but those who can turn up the volume… come a little bit closer to me please, so you could hear my voice)
0:56 Turchinov, Yatsenyuk, Kolomoyskyi.. LYASHKO! (don’t get into this, you’ve had a bit of a drink, we’re all absolutely sober)
1:04 There, all those billionaires, in my perspective they are scoundrels. The people also perceive them as such. The majority agree with me on the matter. I haven’t met anyone as of yet, who would sympathise with Yulia Tymoshenko or Poroshenko... he is the kind of guy that says such things… he always lies, cheats…
1:23 I am the terrorist? You, Poroshenko, take a look at me. Come over here, I won’t touch you, I don’t like the violence, I am a peaceful human being. But your mercenaries… we are sick of them, how much blood do you need? Remember this, with every drop of blood, the further away you get from heaven.
1:40 Why? Why are you not letting us live, all of us? Why?
1:54 Here is another one of the terrorists, show them your rifle. (Yes, I am a terrorist) Pull it up, show them. (I don’t want to show it shows a slingshot) There, there, that’s how we are terrorists.
2:04 And you, bastards, brought yours over here with automatic weapons, with grenade launcher. The people of Odessa… what did you do to them?! And you’re blaming all on the Russians. You are scoundrels! You are all liars. The Russians are our brothers! They would never do that! (It’s the truth, it’s the truth) Of course!

2:25 Everyone knows it! (don’t think of getting into a foreign monastery with your charter, don’t think of it!). Americans and Europeans are skunks and scoundrels! (You will really pay for this, this is peace, this is the sign of peace, but if it’s upside down then believe me, believe me… you can’t, you can’t fellas. Just think about this, in all truth, we all have families, wives, children… think about your wives and children… don’t) Don’t touch Donbass! (I am disabled! But nevertheless, trust me, I have hands, one leg and another, and let it be not fully functional, but believe me, I also have teeth, the teeth I perfectly fine, trust me, and I can bite just fine if you will come here to kill us) Filth! (Then we will use our teeth on you)
3:10 Now let me speak, dear friend (And if we get to have some weapons, then be even more afraid. God forbid we get to have weapons. Fellas, God forbid! Remember your history. No need for war. Friends we don’t need war. Think, just think. We are not foreigners, what are you thinking?)
3:42 If we don’t have bases of weapons, you think we are foreign? We had the second largest shooting range over here, you think we don’t know how to shoot? Dear my… anyone… anyone
3:59 That’s it, that’s it, come on. (Just don’t, don’t, don’t do it)
4:03 I am a peaceful human being. Well just stop… let me say something. I am a peaceful human being, my name is Roma. I grew up in this city, in Mariopol. I don’t want blood. I will defend myself, this is my land, I have nowhere else to go. We will bury those scoundrels here, even like this shows slingshot
4:27 The disabled, over there, said he will use his teeth. All people will do the same. Russians, look you are scoundrels Americans and Europeans if you support the bald one and the glass-wearing one. It’s your money there, I understand! Ukraine for you is an exchange coin together with the people who live here. You are scoundrels! You are scoundrels! You gave the license to do such things! What kind of people are you?!
4:53 You are not Slavic, you will not understand us. Stop doing this to us! We’re not doing anything to do, then why the heck would you do these things? Yes… this is all that I have, I am not a terrorist. It’s all lies, by Poroshenko! All lies by the bold one, Turchinov… and all the others whoever they have!
5:17 I slightly let myself to talk like that, I hope you understand, with trying to get into the situation. I haven’t slept for months. I am on alert. We have people dying every day. This is… this is… I have no words for this! I usually don’t swear, but it’s possible that there could be a word that will come out, and I don’t want to do this on camera.

5:38 People, wake up! How much more of this? How much more death and blood should be spilt? People, stop this! You are human, not animals! Even animals don’t act in such a way! What are you doing? What are you doing against the peaceful… Fellas, soldiers I also appeal to you, how can you execute the orders. Everyone: MVD, Inside Forces of national selection… all sorts of forces!
6:05 Granted those SS… they use to come before, and now they are coming back again. This here, won’t work. In Donbass, you will be buried. Donbass will not be standing on its’ knees. You need to burn everything here! Make a burning field out of everything! Only like this you may have a chance, but it won’t happen! The truth is with us, the Gods are with us. The God sees it all, you will be punished, you scroungers! Totally without brains!
6:35 What are you counting on? You saw the girl, Sophia(referring to the 21 year old nurse that was shot at block post)… guys, come here, say a couple of words for the camera. Here look, some more of our terrorists. Here stroll peaceful citizens, children…
6:46 Introduce yourselves, what are your names? (Kirll, Vlad) Vladik and Kirilka, how is Turchinov for you? How, what is happening in our country? Forgive us for this, but we will defend and protect. (We are still very young). You are still very young, and do you want for all of this to continue?
7:10 Make a statement (they don’t need to do all this). Even the kids are telling you... We are asking, stop this punitive operation. It’s children and peaceful citizens here. What are you doing? This ribbon, is a sign of respect to my grandfather. He was telling me how they chased away the Nazis from the territory of the Soviet Union.
7:45 The Banderas entrenched in the forest, and shot at the Red Army. They shot at the Red Army, and now it is all trying to come back. If I were to walk in Kiev, just for this ribbon, I could get a bullet in the head. In the capital of my country. It is “novorossiya”! Ukraine, I believe that Ukraine is the edge of Russia *U krai means at the edge, hence U krai = ukraina) It was always like this way. There was never a country called Ukraine. Many know this, I know this… many people have their brains washed, they think that Ukraine has always existed, that is not the case

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:50 AM
a reply to: Xcathdra

Everything Russia has tried has failed, miserably, to the point they are now desperately trying to figure a way out and none is presenting itself. If Putin does not invade, he is done.

Really Xcathdra Everything that Russia has tried has failed, miserably? correction America and the EU have Everything tried failed, miserably mention the useless sanctions.

I Remember you claiming before that Russia would be done in Syria but apparently the opposite is occurring, the same as it is now in the beloved Democratic unrefereed Libya.
edit on 5-5-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 12:54 AM
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

Yes, Putin's plan has failed miserably. All that it has accomplished is in fact the exact opposite of what Putin wanted.

He got caught in Crimea.
He got caught in East / South Ukraine.
The UN called them out.
The OSCE called them out.
Moldova signed an affiliation agreement with the EU.
Ukraine looks like it will join the EU.
NATO has moved forces into NATO countries.
Non NATO countries are looking at possibly joining (Finland for starters).
The economic gains is miniscule while the cost for Russia has been massive, even according to their own finance people.
China is leveraging influence against Russia to get better oil prices.
Europe is looking at other sources for energy.

The simple fact Russia is putting a meeting together between the South and East with the government in Kiev speaks volumes since it signals a shift away from the Russian view the government in Kiev in not valid.
Belarus is backing away from Moscow, stating they don't support Ukraine as a federation, that Ukraine's territorial integrity should be protected / maintained.

failed...... miserably.

posted on May, 5 2014 @ 01:03 AM

originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
Wow. I'm coming across some photos of the individuals that died in the Odessa bldg.

They're showing people shot in the head near objects with bullet holes in them. . .

I know there were reports of pro-kiev supporters running into the bldg.

. . . But some of the more disturbing images is of what appears to be a pregnant woman, leaning over backwards on a desk with an electrical cord wrapped around her neck. And the entire room & woman shows NO indications of being on fire! And in one of the photos shows a woman completely pantless (more than likely raped).

Jesus! and these people are still running around on the loose. . .

**WARNING** Graphic images:

wow that is shocking
and here we have our MSM claiming they just burnt themselves.

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