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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Dutzy
a reply to: angelchemuel

As I expected, only posturing and distortion of facts.

Allow me to explain, the symbol she is wearing is nothing more than Ukraine's national symbol from its coat of arms, the trident:


Nothing to do with the far-right symbolism shown in the other photos, unrelated to events in Odessa.

Also, after watching on live stream for about 4-5 hours the events in Odessa prior and during the burning of the Union Trade House, I have failed to see even a single Right Sector, neo-nazi, far right symbol, being worn by anyone on the pro-Ukraine rally. Most of them were wearing, one way or another, the Ukrainian flag or its symbol, the trident.

I won't ask for any other evidence because clearly you have none. Have a good day/evening.



Or the Right Sector flag



It is the broadest and most longstanding symbol of Ukrainian national identity.

By your logic, I suppose every use of the Ay-yildiz ☪ (star and crescent) is proof of Islamic fundamentalism?

Or every time the American flag is used it is a symbol of the Klu Klux Klan?


??? I was pointing out what parties use it on their flags and symbols, so my proof gets dismissed because why? You say so, people were caught with this symbol on their chest making molotov cocktails and I would like to think it is the more radical elements here at work, you want to see them as ordinary people and defend the right sector, ok!? That's your right I suppose..... Why do you think that it is ordinary people and not right sector?




posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: angelchemuel
Thank you all for pointing out the Trident and its association to Ukraine. However and whatever it does not mitigate the fact that these young girls are obviously making Molotov cocktails which, from what I saw happening, were used on the building where people had taken refuge.


Yes they were. And it is a very ugly thing when young girls, nearly children, are drawn into participating in such evil.

But again it needs to be emphasized that the pro Russians definitively started the violence, attacking the initially peaceful protest while heavily armed. After they had shot and killed several of the pro unity protestors, indignation and hatred created a mob mentality.

And we know how that ended.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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@howardamos: Pro-Maidan guys gathered at the top of Potemkin steps. Small Right Sector units appear to be taking up positions in nearby courtyards.

@howardamos: Well armed pro-Maidan guys number about a thousand. Can see approximately 20 police.

edit on 4-5-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: ALoveSupreme



Yes two ladies that look like they are under duress strolling along with molotov's in hand while the police behind them are doing # all but march on ignoring them, if the police really wanted to protect anyone they would be stopping those women rather than ignoring them, bit ironic too she is carrying a molotov and wearing a peace t-shirt.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Dutzy
a reply to: angelchemuel

As I expected, only posturing and distortion of facts.

Allow me to explain, the symbol she is wearing is nothing more than Ukraine's national symbol from its coat of arms, the trident:


Nothing to do with the far-right symbolism shown in the other photos, unrelated to events in Odessa.

Also, after watching on live stream for about 4-5 hours the events in Odessa prior and during the burning of the Union Trade House, I have failed to see even a single Right Sector, neo-nazi, far right symbol, being worn by anyone on the pro-Ukraine rally. Most of them were wearing, one way or another, the Ukrainian flag or its symbol, the trident.

I won't ask for any other evidence because clearly you have none. Have a good day/evening.



Or the Right Sector flag



It is the broadest and most longstanding symbol of Ukrainian national identity.

By your logic, I suppose every use of the Ay-yildiz ☪ (star and crescent) is proof of Islamic fundamentalism?

Or every time the American flag is used it is a symbol of the Klu Klux Klan?


??? I was pointing out what parties use it on their flags and symbols, so my proof gets dismissed because why? You say so, people were caught with this symbol on their chest making molotov cocktails and I would like to think it is the more radical elements here at work, you want to see them as ordinary people and defend the right sector, ok!? That's your right I suppose..... Why do you think that it is ordinary people and not right sector?


Not all people in Ukraine who believe in their own national identity and wear the trident or blue and gold are members of 'Right Sector'.

That is the fallacy that keeps getting repeated and repeated by the Russian media because it fits their narrative of the fascist threat.

Right Sector is a fairly marginal group with only a few thousand members. Yet they are somehow blamed for every action against the separatists.

It is absurd.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: ALoveSupreme



Yes two ladies that look like they are under duress strolling along with molotov's in hand while the police behind them are doing # all but march on ignoring them, if the police really wanted to protect anyone they would be stopping those women rather than ignoring them, bit ironic too she is carrying a molotov and wearing a peace t-shirt.


Not sure what your argument is here. No, these are not 'Right Sector' paramilitaries. These are Ukrainian youth from Odessa, a place where an overwhelming majority oppose separatism.

If you were a teenager and a foreign country was literally invading your lands and sending agent provocateurs to your city who shot at your friends, you might participate in the ugliness of violence. You do not have to be an inhuman monster to feel hatred.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Ya, kinda like whats happening in Venezuela right now...

Funny how from one side of the world to another or worse one time to another, same $h!# is happening. We are giving the human race a horrid name for the galactic book of races (wouldnt it be cool if there was one?)...
Also, i just relize how heavy the russian involment is on both sides, Venezuela and Ukraine... How ironic




posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: ALoveSupreme



Yes two ladies that look like they are under duress strolling along with molotov's in hand while the police behind them are doing # all but march on ignoring them, if the police really wanted to protect anyone they would be stopping those women rather than ignoring them, bit ironic too she is carrying a molotov and wearing a peace t-shirt.


Not sure what your argument is here. No, these are not 'Right Sector' paramilitaries. These are Ukrainian youth from Odessa, a place where an overwhelming majority oppose separatism.

If you were a teenager and a foreign country was literally invading your lands and sending agent provocateurs to your city who shot at your friends, you might participate in the ugliness of violence. You do not have to be an inhuman monster to feel hatred.


I made my point in it, if the Ukraine police present were trying to stop this why are they letting people through with molotov's?




This shows some fat # shooting at the building while people are trying to escape,where are the pro Kiev police to stop him?
edit on 4-5-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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Irony in E Ukraine, when those claiming to fight neo-nazis, turn out to be fighting zionist propaganda as well:

Hans de Vreij @hdevreij
#Ukraine: from the Jewish Agency report: "town of Slovyansk launched a TV channel in order to 'attack Zionist broadcasting' as they put it



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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Very interesting!

On the Odessa ustream one of the speakers (with the yellow helmet) has this on front of his helmet:





This was in front of the newly installed Odessa police chief. . . And the new police chief welcomes them!

. . . . Very concerning.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:09 PM
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originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: ALoveSupreme



Yes two ladies that look like they are under duress strolling along with molotov's in hand while the police behind them are doing # all but march on ignoring them, if the police really wanted to protect anyone they would be stopping those women rather than ignoring them, bit ironic too she is carrying a molotov and wearing a peace t-shirt.


Not sure what your argument is here. No, these are not 'Right Sector' paramilitaries. These are Ukrainian youth from Odessa, a place where an overwhelming majority oppose separatism.

If you were a teenager and a foreign country was literally invading your lands and sending agent provocateurs to your city who shot at your friends, you might participate in the ugliness of violence. You do not have to be an inhuman monster to feel hatred.


I made my point in it, if the Ukraine police present were trying to stop this why are they letting people through with molotov's?




This shows some fat # shooting at the building while people are trying to escape,where are the pro Kiev police to stop him?


Unfortunately most of us have already seen and discussed these images.

(Many of us actually watched this unfold live.)

With regards to the Odessa police -- on the whole they were pretty useless defending either side against violence.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: ALoveSupreme



Yes two ladies that look like they are under duress strolling along with molotov's in hand while the police behind them are doing # all but march on ignoring them, if the police really wanted to protect anyone they would be stopping those women rather than ignoring them, bit ironic too she is carrying a molotov and wearing a peace t-shirt.


Not sure what your argument is here. No, these are not 'Right Sector' paramilitaries. These are Ukrainian youth from Odessa, a place where an overwhelming majority oppose separatism.

If you were a teenager and a foreign country was literally invading your lands and sending agent provocateurs to your city who shot at your friends, you might participate in the ugliness of violence. You do not have to be an inhuman monster to feel hatred.


I made my point in it, if the Ukraine police present were trying to stop this why are they letting people through with molotov's?




This shows some fat # shooting at the building while people are trying to escape,where are the pro Kiev police to stop him?


The police in eastern Ukraine is useless to say the least like when the pro russians started firing on the croud in most countries police would clear the streets and find the shooters. All they appeared to do was move from between the two groups to avoid getting involved.Problem is in eastern Ukraine many police departments are in name only have you ever heard of people taking over a police station?? They just let people walk in and throw them out of there own building. This in itself should tell you no one can count on the police. When victor yanokovich was president government jobs were given out as rewards to friends and associates. This practice was obviously ripe in the police department they collect government check and do nothing. Its going to take years to solve the problems the old Soviet system caused Ukraine. Just wait Russia will go through it as well as there economy starts to shrink up until now they were able to ignore corruption because there economy was growing again. When it stops like now coruption takes a much larger piece of the pie.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: ALoveSupreme



Yes two ladies that look like they are under duress strolling along with molotov's in hand while the police behind them are doing # all but march on ignoring them, if the police really wanted to protect anyone they would be stopping those women rather than ignoring them, bit ironic too she is carrying a molotov and wearing a peace t-shirt.


Not sure what your argument is here. No, these are not 'Right Sector' paramilitaries. These are Ukrainian youth from Odessa, a place where an overwhelming majority oppose separatism.

If you were a teenager and a foreign country was literally invading your lands and sending agent provocateurs to your city who shot at your friends, you might participate in the ugliness of violence. You do not have to be an inhuman monster to feel hatred.


I made my point in it, if the Ukraine police present were trying to stop this why are they letting people through with molotov's?




This shows some fat # shooting at the building while people are trying to escape,where are the pro Kiev police to stop him?


Unfortunately most of us have already seen and discussed these images.

(Many of us actually watched this unfold live.)

With regards to the Odessa police -- on the whole they were pretty useless defending either side against violence.



Or else check out the post above where it shows the police are working with the right sector and welcomes them. But no they didn't have anything to do with it.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:15 PM
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Watching live in Odessa now, I don't see this remaining peaceful for long.

edit on 4-5-2014 by ashpack because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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I think the police's loyalties are fairly complex with many just looking out for their own selfish interests as dragonridr suggests.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: ashpack

I believe now that the pro-fascist rally is over, the crowd is moving to the Trade Union bldg where 40 people were burned alive in. . .

Not sure what their intentions are though.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Hopefully there is no trouble. They all seem pretty well armed with baseball bats etc..



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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Very interesting:
The pro-Ukraine/Right Sector rally has reached the Trade Union House and the first thing they do is to form a chain to protect the candels lit for the dead and the flower left there in their memory...



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: ashpack
Watching live in Odessa now, I don't see this remaining peaceful for long.
Well there are no Russian soldiers/militia/thugs present to orchestrate any trouble so thankfully it will remain peaceful I think.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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originally posted by: Dutzy
Irony in E Ukraine, when those claiming to fight neo-nazis, turn out to be fighting zionist propaganda as well:

Hans de Vreij @hdevreij
#Ukraine: from the Jewish Agency report: "town of Slovyansk launched a TV channel in order to 'attack Zionist broadcasting' as they put it


Not all that surprising theres a fine line between fascists and Russians in general. See fascism is defined like so.

-One charismatic leader has absolute authority. Often the symbol of the state. (this would be Putin)

-Fascism is a civic religion - citizens worship the state through nationalism. The state only supports religious organizations that are nationally/historically tied to that state; e.g. the Iron Guard in Romania supported the Romanian Orthodox church. (again Russia)

- The individual is considered meaningless; they must be dedicated to the power of the State. Traditional gender roles are upheld. (need i say it)

- Strict class structure believed necessary to prevent chaos. Everyone has a specific, defined role. While a certain race is considered superior, individuality among members of that race is discouraged. (we see this in a couple of ways the oligarchs in Russia putin and friends. But also in how they treat immigrants and gays considered lower rung if you will)

- Belief in one superior race (Nazism). Blames society’s problems on members of other races or social groups. 9again we see similarities)

-Fascists are ultra-nationalists who see no reason to respect the rights of other nations. (well we definately see this one dont we)

There really is only some minor differences Russia came out of Communism and never made it to a democracy they moved more towards fascism understandable since its more familiar to a communist than a democracy.



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