Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Thank you for clearing the issue.

Actually, I remember, when I was a kid, here in Romania people were issued national ID's similar to passports, kinda like that lady has, but smaller in dimension than an actual passport.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: MessageforAll
rt.com...
Moscow: Kiev and its Western sponsors provoke bloodshed, are directly responsible

Kiev’s government and its western allies bear full responsibility for the recent bloodshed in Ukraine, Russia’s presidential spokesman has said, adding it is now impossible to convince people in the region to disarm because their lives are under threat.

The irony!

The Kremlin-controlled media has been fostering fear among Eastern Ukrainians nonstop since February about hordes of 'fascists' coming to get them in the East. They stirred up all this fear and triggered so much reactionary behavior among pro-Russians until half of the country was under siege. And now when the mob violence finally gets really deadly they blame it on the west.

Oh, the painful irony!

Of course this has been their too obvious plan -- to foster enough fear and ethnic hatred, to trigger events which would give a pretext for an invasion.

Just so I understand your post....

You are saying that Russia stoked up fear in E Ukraine about potential violence as you state: "to foster fear and ethnic hatred", than go on to concede that the violence has become realized.

So as predicted the violence is now front and center and because Russia was right, that makes them wrong. That is just awesome, if your not a politician you should be.

I'm not here to argue on the side of Russia but that is by far the best circle argument I've ever seen.

So from your argument, if I told my daughter not to touch the poisonous snake because it can kill her, that means I'm stoking fear. If she gets bit its my fault for warning her......genius.

If you know nothing of history I suppose this might sound like a new idea to you.

It is called agitation. Intelligence agencies of the USA and USSR used it constantly to provoke militancy and spawn conflicts when deemed necessary in the Cold War. In fact, going back to the Romans conquest of Gaul, it has been a useful technique to spawn hatred and mobilize masses.

I'd like to think I understand history quite well. That being said, what you wrote here and what you wrote above are not exactly the same. So here I agree that inciting E Ukrainians brought the hostilities to where they're at but I wouldn't lay fault at the feet of Russia. Meaning, that had Russia not incited the East, the East would have been rolled over by the puppet regime installed by the west.

Russia, in her own interest incited the East to make the transition from a Pro-Russian client state to a pro-west client state that much more difficult. That being said, there is plenty of blame to go around.

My posting was a response was to the ridiculously ironic, one-sided blame being laid upon the west in that RT headline.

That being said, I will continue to strongly oppose the idea that the West played too large a role in starting the months long Euromaidan protests which finally led to Yanukovych's departure.

As any Ukrainian who was there can tell you, the swelling of crowd into the thousands happened after Yanukovych's own security beat a small group of unarmed student protestors who were opposed to his last minute refusal of the EU trade treaty.

Here is a magnificent article written by a Ukrainian journalist before the crisis which tries to clarify that for Westerners -- UNDERSTANDING EUROMAIDAN by Taras Ilkiv

Yes, I have heard the tape of the USA deputy secretary of state discussing Euromaidan, yes I have seen the videos of the USA senator visiting the square and making a speech, yes I have heard all the deliberations at the time by EU officials.

The west, like Russia, has been opportunistic about Euromaidan. The west characterized it as Ukrainians struggle to become European and aligned with the west when it really was about getting rid of Ukrainians corrupt and repressive leaders. They offered lukewarm political support, probably some material and logistical aid as the months wore on.

But it was Russia who greatly escalated the situation after Yanukovych mysteriously fled to the bosom of Russia. Immediately the repetitive message of a fascist 'junta' threatening Russian speakers became repetitious on Russia's centrally controlled media. Mysterious 'self defense' militias started to appear (later revealed to be regular Russian Army) in Crimea.

It was Russia who sent in armed troops to take over a sovereign nation's military bases in Crimea, sent in their own rabid nationalist 'activists' to take over a sovereign nation's government buildings, sent in special forces and mercenaries to organize and train separatist militias, helped with the dismantling of local television and radio so that only the Kremlin's scare tactic messaging could be heard.

Its been 5 days since any updates from Asen_y2k

Hope all is well for him

X

originally posted by: Dutzy
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Thank you for clearing the issue.

Actually, I remember, when I was a kid, here in Romania people were issued national ID's similar to passports, kinda like that lady has, but smaller in dimension than an actual passport.

No problem! I just recognized the document from my Ukrainian friends.

You are from Bucharesti? I love your city. I used to work in the diplomatic quarter off of Boulevard Ana Ipatescu where they have all those lovely Brancovenesc style houses. I spent many wonderful evenings at your theaters, and enjoyed one too many late night palincas with my male colleagues at Caru' cu bere.

originally posted by: Xcouncil=wisdom
Its been 5 days since any updates from Asen_y2k

Hope all is well for him

X

Hopefully he has not been arrested. If he told his neighbors or friends about his posting on ATS, the Right Sector may not have viewed it favorably. Especially considering his location in far west Ukraine.
It could be due to a number of things, but he promised he would always be here for us.

a reply to: Matt1951

Guys Ukraine is not a small country, He might be miles away from any fighting, also Kiev central isn't gonna keep itself busy with small fries like Asen.

I wouldn't worry to much, might have computer problems

Well in this part of Europe, ever since May 1st most people have been given a small holiday, until Monday.
I'm pretty sure he's just enjoying this little vacation

originally posted by: Matt1951

originally posted by: Xcouncil=wisdom
Its been 5 days since any updates from Asen_y2k

Hope all is well for him

X

Hopefully he has not been arrested. If he told his neighbors or friends about his posting on ATS, the Right Sector may not have viewed it favorably. Especially considering his location in far west Ukraine.
It could be due to a number of things, but he promised he would always be here for us.

Right sector arresting him.

Are you meaning to be humorous?

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Glad to hear you loved Bucharest.
Since you worked in the vicinity of the Ana Ipatescu Boulevard, you must have been here prior to 1993. The city has changed a bit since then.

I agree that there is probably plenty of blame to go around, but the order of magnitude of aggression we are witnessing from Russia is simply higher right now. Putin has revealed something about his strategy that was not apparent before. It is a 'game changer' as Americans are fond of saying.

As I have said before, it is Russia that concerns me most, or rather a certain group of powerful people in Russia. This is mainly because I am intimately familiar with their power structures and methods.

I honestly believe we are witnessing the ascendency of a new Russian military fascist state which unlike previous regimes now harnesses the power of global corruption and capitalism.

Take all the worst tendencies of the western military industrial complex and magnify them. And instead of having checks on government power, let a small group of individuals exercise an increasingly centralized and unrestrained authority.

That is my view of Putin's power consolidation in Russia.

originally posted by: Dutzy
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

Glad to hear you loved Bucharest.
Since you worked in the vicinity of the Ana Ipatescu Boulevard, you must have been here prior to 1993. The city has changed a bit since then.

Yes! Did they change the name because she was a socialist icon?

I worked for my former country's government then.

@AFP: #BREAKING: Russian FM Lavrov asks counterpart Kerry to press Ukraine to stop military operation in country's east: Moscow

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

No, she wasn't a socialist icon. She had a somewhat prominent part in the Revolution of 1848 in Bucharest, she was the daughter of a merchant, part of the time's bourgeoisie.
She was one of the people in Romania's history that the communists assimilated to their ideology, with the whole equality, class struggle blah-blah, and further used to forward their ideology and their version of Romania's history.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
RT Paula Slier states reports of Ukranian army executing pro Russians in Kramatorsk, prisoners being led to road, made to kneel and then being shot in the back of the head

What an absolute lie. She did not mention the Ukrainian army at all in that Tweet. She said it was Right Sector.

Back to today's Ukraine, aircraft movements reported in the skies of Crimea:
inforesist.org...

Only a few hours on Saturday afternoon was seen over a dozen MiG-29 fighters and Su-27 , as well as several strategic bombers Tu- 22 m

In the skies over the Crimea , in particular over Simferopol , there is transfer of Russian military aircraft supposedly from the airport to the village Guards Simferopol district to the west coast of the Crimean peninsula .

On it informs "Ukrinform" citing its correspondent .

In particular, only a few hours on Saturday afternoon was seen over a dozen MiG-29 fighters and Su-27 , as well as several strategic bombers Tu- 22 m

Local observers do not rule out that the transfer of aviation connected with the situation in the south- eastern Ukraine , the state news agency writes .

It should be noted that previously the head of ATC at SBU Lt. Gen. Vasily Krutov said that Russia intends to intensify efforts to destabilize the situation in other regions , not only in the Donbass .

" The information that we receive , says that by the foreign state planned sufficiently serious strengthening of their actions on the territory of Ukraine , which are not limited only to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions ," - he said.

SBU say they are ready for tougher development of the situation : " We are ready for a different , more stringent operational development of the situation," said Vasyl Krutov .

LE: Another social media account, @russiannavyblog, says Crimean airspace closed between 3rd - 5th May.

russian navy blog ‏@russiannavyblog

Airspace over Crimea and Sea of Azov closed 3-5 May. VIP visit? pic.twitter.com/WWJFM2FlfR

pic.twitter.com/WWJFM2FlfR

LE2: There is a video filmed in Crimea today showing TU-22's, strategic bombers, flying above Simferopol:


And a second video of the airplanes above Simferopol today:


Third video:

EU calls for independent inquiry into tragic deaths of people in Ukraine's Odessa

The European Union calls for independent inquiry into tragic deaths of people in Ukrainian Odessa. Following events in Odessa all political forces in Ukraine must start peaceful, inclusive dialogue to resolve the crisis.

More inflammatory Russian rhetoric, this time from Putin's press secretary:

Russia will not be able to persuade people in southeast of Ukraine to lay down arms
After the tragic events in Odessa, it will be factually impossible for Russia and any other country to persuade people in the southeast of Ukraine to lay down arms, because there is a direct threat to their lives, Russian president’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov told journalists.

en.itar-tass.com...

How wonderful that this seals the deal for Russia!

No way that pro-Russians could possibly lay down their arms now.

Because everybody in the East is obviously equivalent to masked agitators firing guns into crowds of youths.

I'd just like to remind some members here, that 46 people were burned alive to the chats of "kill moskovites!" So there are no "deals', people are being murdered.

Just a note, the ones that jumped out of the burning building and survived the fall, were beaten to death by all those wonderful fighters for freedom democracy and western values.

www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: renden
I'd just like to remind some members here, that 46 people were burned alive to the chats of "kill moskovites!" So there are no "deals', people are being murdered.

Just a note, the ones that jumped out of the burning building and survived the fall, were beaten to death by all those wonderful fighters for freedom democracy and western values.

www.theguardian.com...

As much as we don't see eye-to-eye usually, I agree with you. Yesterday's behaviour by the right sector elements within the pro-Ukrainian group was murderous. Those that were directly and indirectly involved with torching the trade union building and burning people alive should be held accountable in the International Criminal Court.

a reply to: ProfessorT
Ok a bit of a slip. Still pretty mental if true