Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: dragonridr

What do you know about all this, sorry are you American, i thought you came from Palestine ,Yugoslavia, Iraq or maybe even Syria,but i thought it could be Ukraine because you seem to know so ,so much, just goes to show what do i know.

originally posted by: seppirish
a reply to: dragonridr

What do you know about all this, sorry are you American, i thought you came from Palestine ,Yugoslavia, Iraq or maybe even Syria,but i thought it could be Ukraine because you seem to know so ,so much, just goes to show what do i know.

I love it when people try to figure it out see i dont agree with Russian propaganda i get called a NAZI i dont agree with western propaganda im a terrorists isnt life fun!

a reply to: dragonridr

The money must be good

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme
a reply to: ProfessorT

I think it should be shown.

Show the suffering and death of people that comes from callous and aggressive politics.

If this goes the direction of Chechnya, we have not even begun to see the depth of human suffering possible.

Video of dead pro-Russians in Odessa (warning very graphic)

In a way you are right, the only difference is that instead of islamic fanatics we saw in Chechnya we see Nazi Thugs
from Right Sector burning people alive and killing those trying to jump from burning building.
How is democracy going in UAE anyway?

Is that all you can gleam from the history of the Chechen wars? Islamic fanatics? Nevermind.

I have a more pressing question for everyone here:

How sure are we that Right Sector was there in Odessa yesterday?

When I woke up today that is what I read in the Russian media.

It sure fits the Kremlin's longstanding narrative.

And we did see Right Sector post something earlier yesterday in relation to Odessa on Facebook (I was the one who posted it here).

Here is an excerpt from an RT article on the incident:

Mayoral candidate Albu described the attack as being “a wake up call for Odessa” which could lead to very unpredictable consequences. Albu stated that the anti-Kiev demonstrations were peaceful, adding that the attack on protesters “will not go unanswered.”

But a lot of us here watched the 2-3 live streaming cameras of events in Odessa on the street, as they unfolded.

What I remember seeing started out with a group of mixed Maidan supporters, including some soccer club fans, kids, even some girls and elderly. A few had bats or threw rocks but most were unarmed and chanting anti-Russian slogans. But what really stood out from the beginning were a few pro-Russian supporters on rooftops firing pistols into the crowd. We all saw that. It was pretty shocking.

Sometime later, the cameras arrived at the Trade Unions building where the pro-Russian camp had been set up. An angry, as I remember, pretty young group of mostly teenagers, tore down the camp out front and immediately began throwing molotov cocktails into the low level doors and windows. It was sometimes difficult to see on the video, but there never seemed to be many adults or what I would recognize as rank and file 'Right Sector' militants. I also remember a blogger at the scene reporting that a paramedic told him the pro-Russians were firing guns and using stun grenades.

I honestly want to know. I am not into any sort of radicalism or mob violence. And I am certainly not a supporter of neo-nazis.

What I thought I saw yesterday was a pretty heterogenous crowd of Ukrainians getting angry at pro-Russian supporters who were firing guns at them. And then some younger, more aggressive males deciding to become vigilantes, then arsonists, and things get out of control very quickly.

In all honesty, what do people who saw all the stream think?

a reply to: dragonridr

Like me

I think they're all insane actually, it's called fence sitting and regarding the irresponsibility from both sides I'm content to sit here..

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: seppirish
a reply to: dragonridr

What do you know about all this, sorry are you American, i thought you came from Palestine ,Yugoslavia, Iraq or maybe even Syria,but i thought it could be Ukraine because you seem to know so ,so much, just goes to show what do i know.

I love it when people try to figure it out see i dont agree with Russian propaganda i get called a NAZI i dont agree with western propaganda im a terrorists isnt life fun!

That is because some people assume you have to be one side or the other.

I personally could do without both superpowers. They certainly did a good job destroying my homeland with their cynical proxy wars.

Video from the pro-Russian side of the demo in Odessa yesterday, one protester hold and fires a AK-74u:

Re: In the end It can only be neutrals that solve (diplomatically) -these types of conflicts. (my opinion)

One news outlet in Ukraine is claiming that 15 of the 38 victims in the Odessa Trade Unions building were Russian nationals, and that 5 were from Transnistria.

ru.tsn.ua...


Will obviously be waiting to hear whether this is disproved or confirmed.

a reply to: Dutzy

I love how the defenders of the Pro Kiev side are claiming that those on the video are actually Russians even they cant prove it.

originally posted by: canucks555
a reply to: dragonridr

Like me

I think they're all insane actually, it's called fence sitting and regarding the irresponsibility from both sides I'm content to sit here..

Im not even in the middle i really do believe Russia is wrong but im also reasonable. I at least understand Russians and Putins motivation even if i dont necessarily agree with it.But there is some truth to it as well along with some really bad paranoia. For example the EU was all into Ukraine trying to get them to leave Russian influence. But in my opinion it was over resources the EU needs energy. Was the US involved somewhat in the fact the US was trying to build up Ukraine in order to make it a stronger nation so it wouldn't fall into dependency to Russia. Billions were pumped into Russia and eastern bloc countries there sole purpose was to make sure the USSR had no pulse and wouldnt return. As far as media theirs truth and bias in every article or news cast. The trick on finding the truth is to try to figure out the reporters bias. When i find a reporter that tries to suppress there bias i tend to give there reports more weight but realize every reporter has opinions and they will always have some effect on there reporting.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

All the people in the video I posted earlier wear either a St George ribbon or red ribbon, tied around their wrist, arm, neck, both of those being symbols worn by pro-Russian and separatist protesters....

Also where did I state they are Russians ???

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme
a reply to: ProfessorT

I think it should be shown.

Show the suffering and death of people that comes from callous and aggressive politics.

If this goes the direction of Chechnya, we have not even begun to see the depth of human suffering possible.

Video of dead pro-Russians in Odessa (warning very graphic)

In a way you are right, the only difference is that instead of islamic fanatics we saw in Chechnya we see Nazi Thugs
from Right Sector burning people alive and killing those trying to jump from burning building.
How is democracy going in UAE anyway?

Is that all you can gleam from the history of the Chechen wars? Islamic fanatics? Nevermind.

I have a more pressing question for everyone here:

How sure are we that Right Sector was there in Odessa yesterday?

When I woke up today that is what I read in the Russian media.

It sure fits the Kremlin's longstanding narrative.

And we did see Right Sector post something earlier yesterday in relation to Odessa on Facebook (I was the one who posted it here).

Here is an excerpt from an RT article on the incident:

Mayoral candidate Albu described the attack as being “a wake up call for Odessa” which could lead to very unpredictable consequences. Albu stated that the anti-Kiev demonstrations were peaceful, adding that the attack on protesters “will not go unanswered.”

But a lot of us here watched the 2-3 live streaming cameras of events in Odessa on the street, as they unfolded.

What I remember seeing started out with a group of mixed Maidan supporters, including some soccer club fans, kids, even some girls and elderly. A few had bats or threw rocks but most were unarmed and chanting anti-Russian slogans. But what really stood out from the beginning were a few pro-Russian supporters on rooftops firing pistols into the crowd. We all saw that. It was pretty shocking.

Sometime later, the cameras arrived at the Trade Unions building where the pro-Russian camp had been set up. An angry, as I remember, pretty young group of mostly teenagers, tore down the camp out front and immediately began throwing molotov cocktails into the low level doors and windows. It was sometimes difficult to see on the video, but there never seemed to be many adults or what I would recognize as rank and file 'Right Sector' militants. I also remember a blogger at the scene reporting that a paramedic told him the pro-Russians were firing guns and using stun grenades.

I honestly want to know. I am not into any sort of radicalism or mob violence. And I am certainly not a supporter of neo-nazis.

What I thought I saw yesterday was a pretty heterogenous crowd of Ukrainians getting angry at pro-Russian supporters who were firing guns at them. And then some younger, more aggressive males deciding to become vigilantes, then arsonists, and things get out of control very quickly.

In all honesty, what do people who saw all the stream think?

I agree pretty much what i saw as well they weren't NAZIs hey were pissed off that Pro Russians fired and killed some people at the rally and went straight into revenge mode. So not only did they chanse them down but than laid siege to the building they ran into. It also didnt help they started firing and using stun grenades. This worked up the crowd into a frenzy and then they set fire to the building chanting against Russians. However there is one bright point i think they calmed down realized what happened and actually started helping carrying people off in stretchers.

Now Kiev doesnt want to admit Ukrainians basically murdered those people because not everyone in the building was involved in the shooting. And Moscow wants you to believe it was NAZIs doing what they do you know burning jews etc.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Dutzy

I love how the defenders of the Pro Kiev side are claiming that those on the video are actually Russians even they cant prove it.

Good example of bias i spoke of you heard what you wanted to not what was said.

Another video shot in front of the House of Unions in Odessa.
Pay close to around the 2:03 - 2:05 mark of the video, there is a fire starting at the 2nd floor, inside the building, prior to Molotovs starting to fly at the building:

Another example of fine Russian media report, just a headline with no actual article:
rt.com...

Over 10 shot dead by Right Sector ultra-nationalist group in eastern Ukraine - reports
Published time: May 03, 2014 06:40
Get short URL

DETAILS TO FOLLOW.

LE: It has been updated, quoting Ponomarev, "people's mayor" of Sloviansk, as source....

Over 10 people have died and around 40 have been injured after members of Right Sector opened fire on civilians in eastern Ukraine, the People’s Mayor of Slavyansk has said.

originally posted by: Dutzy
Another video shot in front of the House of Unions in Odessa.
Pay close to around the 2:03 - 2:05 mark of the video, there is a fire starting at the 2nd floor, inside the building, prior to Molotovs starting to fly at the building:

Look closely the cameraman follows the Molotov cocktail it crashed through the window. It was thrown by the crowd they were aiming for the windows im guessing this was to drive the people out of the building. Sort of like how do you get someone to come out of a field set it on fire.

a reply to: dragonridr

Yes, the camera seems to be following something, although I can't quite make out the actual Molotov cocktail flying, a bit odd for a flaming bottle in mid-flight...
Granted, I may be wrong about a Molotov not lighting up the fire in that room...

originally posted by: Dutzy
a reply to: dragonridr

Yes, the camera seems to be following something, although I can't quite make out the actual Molotov cocktail flying, a bit odd for a flaming bottle in mid-flight...
Granted, I may be wrong about a Molotov not lighting up the fire in that room...

ill tell you what ill convince you see if this logic works blow it up to full screen and watch the window. You will see the -window frame at the top of the window catch fire for a moment. this was the gas being left there as it traveled through the window its brief but youll see it.