Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

originally posted by: cosmonova
They are not part of Russian Military Forces. They have not been sent as a part of Russian Military Forces. Russian Ministry of Defence did not send them.
There is no need to send Russian Military Forces as there is plenty of people who are coming on voluntary base.

Yeah, I don't agree with that.

Russia wouldn't leave such urgent matters to ''volunteers''

Russia is starting to step over the line, up until now I haven't cared. But now, they are starting to push it a bit.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: cosmonova
They are not part of Russian Military Forces. They have not been sent as a part of Russian Military Forces. Russian Ministry of Defence did not send them.
There is no need to send Russian Military Forces as there is plenty of people who are coming on voluntary base.

Yeah, I don't agree with that.

Russia wouldn't leave such urgent matters to ''volunteers''

Russia is starting to step over the line, up until now I haven't cared. But now, they are starting to push it a bit.

But when the western powers supported and financed maidan and svoboda it was not a "step over the line"?
Curious double standards there...

Breaking News @BreakingNews
Reports: Mayor of eastern Ukraine's Kharkiv wounded by gunfire - @BBCBreaking breakingnews.com/t/NCb

The mayor of the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkov, Gennady Kernes, has been shot in the back by unidentified gunmen, the city council’s press service reports.

According to local media reports, Kerness was shot while jogging in the morning. At about 11:30 am (8:30 GMT) local time Kernes was taken to the local hospital. The City Hall's website says that doctors are fighting to save his life.

Th e shooting comes a day after ultranationalists clashed with anti-government protesters in the city, leaving 14 people injured.

This doesn't seem like just some pro-( insert your preference here ). If he was shot while jogging it most have been in a place where it was quiet ( no unrest ). No political figure would go out for a jog if there where fights on the streets.

Also shot in the back, i'm pretty sure this is an action from a gun for hire group further escalating things and increase tensions more.

Just my opinion though.

originally posted by: cosmonova
06:00 GMT:
Unconfirmed reports are coming from Konstantinovka, a city with in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, of anti-government activists taking over the city hall and police station.

The city is located in the northern part of the turbulent region and has a population of about 77,000. It’s known as a large glass and glassware production center in Ukraine.

some pics

twitter.com...

I find your posts confusing. You use terms like "anti-government" without specifying which "government" they are "anti." Your use of "we" and "they" is also extremely ambiguous. Sometimes you try to appear American or European, other times you definitely speak for the Kremlin. Please be more specific about who you consider to be the "good guys" and the "bad guys" in future. Also, you need to find an idealistic theme to give color to your propaganda.

The reason why Communist propaganda was so effective in the last century was because it provided a specific economic alternative to the status quo. All Putin's propagandists can muster is anti-Americanism. It is hard to sell a negative, especially when the alternative being offered is so similar to what is being opposed. Plus, there is the added complication that officially, Russia is no longer anti-Semitic. This means that it cannot use its beloved "Zionist Banksters" card. (Every once in a while someone will slip up. I assume they are suitably punished.)

It must be extremely difficult to construct a suitable story line. On the one hand, Putin wants to appear as the defender of international law. On the other, he wants to appear to be the greatest military leader since Alexander Nevsky. (This is why the Russian instigated violence in Maidan was originally blamed on the Germans, and only later on the Americans.) It also doesn't help that Russian propagandists are being asked to deny the presence of troops that Putin himself acknowledges. They have to claim that a government in Kiyev that was elected is illegitimate, but that self appointed governors in the provinces are legitimate.

Good luck with all that.

originally posted by: Yusomad

originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: cosmonova
They are not part of Russian Military Forces. They have not been sent as a part of Russian Military Forces. Russian Ministry of Defence did not send them.
There is no need to send Russian Military Forces as there is plenty of people who are coming on voluntary base.

Yeah, I don't agree with that.

Russia wouldn't leave such urgent matters to ''volunteers''

Russia is starting to step over the line, up until now I haven't cared. But now, they are starting to push it a bit.

But when the western powers supported and financed maidan and svoboda it was not a "step over the line"?
Curious double standards there...

Repeating a lie does not make it true. Those are Russian flags flying over Ukraine, not "western" ones.

apparently this mayor was pro-russian... hmmm...

On the day in which Barack Obama announced earlier he would unveil another round of sanctions against Russia (most likely involving the heads of both Gazprom and Rosneft), moments ago the already tense situation took another turn for the worse when Interfax blasted news out of East Ukraine that the pro-Russian mayor of Kharkiv, the second largest city in Ukraine, Gennady Kernes, has been shot in the back and is currently undergoing an operation. Will this be the provocation that finally breaks the Russian bear's back and forces the Kremlin to send in "peacekeepers"?

www.zerohedge.com...

a reply to: MessageforAll

Pro-Russian would mean even more reasons for peacekeepers, in my opinion.

Separatists in Slavyansk are detaining 40 people:
24tv.ua...

Slavic separatists in the Donetsk region are kept in captivity for about 40 people, including seven military observers from OSCE member states.

This was during a press conference counterterrorist center spokesman said SBU Marina Ostapenko.

"There is general information that in their Slavic about 40 people, including representatives of the OSCE. Newly data captured in Slavic there. Currently the work on the release of all hostages." - Said the SBU.

a reply to: Dutzy

This can go both ways, I can't help the feeling that someone desperately wants to pull Russia in a war. Don't ask me why but that's just how I see this situation.

And for all you obummer people, remember during a war there are no elections something to keep in mind. I always thought Obama would be the last president.

Also food for thought, the FED ponzi scheme is running to a close, the card house is almost falling.

a reply to: MessageforAll

This can go both ways, I can't help the feeling that someone desperately wants to pull Russia in a war. Don't ask me why but that's just how I see this situation.

Who ordered 40,000 troops to the Ukrainian border? That would be my suspect.

And for all you obummer people, remember during a war there are no elections something to keep in mind.

Irrelevant. Wars are not exclusively about domestic politics. If anything, his "lame duck" status gives the President greater freedom to act.

I always thought Obama would be the last president.

Why?

Also food for thought, the FED ponzi scheme is running to a close, the card house is almost falling.

People have been saying that since 1929.

Look , the US can start "drills" whenever it wants, wherever it wants, even amid tensions the US say *** you. IF Russia does the same thing it's an act of war and all the bullocks.

Reverse this whole situation and see who would act differently.

It's not for me to decide who's wrong or right, both parties commit the same crimes, some do it with drones, some with radiation poisoning. And some do it so blunt to post an army on its borders.

The Russians did have that agreement with Crimea that at every point in time it was allowed to have up to 25.000 troops in Crimea. ( but that little thing seems to be forgotten easily ).

then again,cutting of power lines and putting up a no-flyzone probably isn't allowed.

i just don't get why only the US feels it can do what it wants and every other nation get's dragged into the aggressor role.

and to answer your question.

It's just a feeling in my stomach lol.

Paul Sonne ‏@PaulSonne · 21m
Pro-Russia activists take Konstantinovka police station. Looks like a bid to secure road from Slovyansk to Donetsk. m.wsj.com.../home-page …

originally posted by: MessageforAll
The Russians did have that agreement with Crimea that at every point in time it was allowed to have up to 25.000 troops in Crimea. ( but that little thing seems to be forgotten easily ).

I don't think anybody has "forgotten" that, but it is a moot point now. Either way, all Russian troop movements needed the agreement of the Ukraine Government, they did not get this prior to spilling out all over the peninsula.

originally posted by: MessageforAll
then again,cutting of power lines and putting up a no-flyzone probably isn't allowed.

Exactly - no where in the agreement did it say Russia could annex the nation after a questionable referendum organised in less than a fortnight whilst those Russian soldiers were out of base, armed and facing off against the Ukrainian authorities.

originally posted by: MessageforAll

i just don't get why only the US feels it can do what it wants and every other nation get's dragged into the aggressor role.

Do point out the last time the US invaded a sovereign nation and annexed it's land - then we can compare the US actions against the Russians.

Something people "forget" there, that little bit about annexation...

a reply to: stumason

I accept all your arguments, (no agreeing but accept ). However the last one...

Seriously?

Do point out the last time the US invaded a sovereign nation and annexed it's land - then we can compare the US actions against the Russians.

Something people "forget" there, that little bit about annexation...

I think most here are clever enough to see that " deliberating " and " removing the tyrant regime " and annexing are just semantics.

That's what happened in say... Afgan, Iraq, Iran... at no point did they insert a pro-american government ( read puppet government ).

But I really don't want to see this thread derailed for another two pages because I brought this up. I understand you will want to respond, please do so, but I won't answer it ( for the thread sake ).

a reply to: MessageforAll

Look , the US can start "drills" whenever it wants, wherever it wants, even amid tensions the US say *** you. IF Russia does the same thing it's an act of war and all the bullocks.

Russia drills all the time without comment from the US. When the US chooses to drill on a nation's border, it is intended as a warning or provocation. It is the same for Russia. Russia has been threatening Ukraine very publicly, and one would be a fool not to see their hand in the "spontaneous uprisings."

Reverse this whole situation and see who would act differently.

The United States does not send troops to the Canadian border when Quebec hold a referendum to secede.

It's not for me to decide who's wrong or right, both parties commit the same crimes, some do it with drones, some with radiation poisoning. And some do it so blunt to post an army on its borders.

And yet you condemn the United States while defending Russia.

The Russians did have that agreement with Crimea that at every point in time it was allowed to have up to 25.000 troops in Crimea. ( but that little thing seems to be forgotten easily ).

They are allowed to have 25,000 troops stationed in Crimea, not ranging around Eastern Ukraine blowing things up. Besides, who's counting?

then again,cutting of power lines and putting up a no-flyzone probably isn't allowed.

Correct. Glad you agree.

i just don't get why only the US feels it can do what it wants and every other nation get's dragged into the aggressor role.

The United States has not always come down on the right side of history, but it tends to make amends when necessary. After the Second World War, the Marshall Plan helped Europe rebuild while Stalin set up police states in Central and Eastern Europe. After the Viet Nam War, United States NGOs helped that country rebuild, and American businesses invested capital there.

and to answer your question.

It's just a feeling in my stomach lol.

Try some bicarbonate of soda. But seriously, people who are down on "The Fed" don't seem to realize it is just a Central Bank. All countries have a Central Bank, even Russia, to facilitate financial transactions between institutions and to control the supply of money. The only alternative to a Central Bank is financial chaos.

Deputy of Slavyansk's "people's mayor", Ponomarev, detained while returning from Russia with 19k USD and communication encryption hardware:
tsn.ua...

Security Service of Ukraine deputy arrested a self-proclaimed "Mayor Slavic" Igor Perepechayenka. This was disclosed at a press briefing spokesman Center Sat Ukraine Maryna Ostapenko. According to her, Perepechayenko "involved in the organization of separatist activities and massive collisions in the Donetsk region, accompanied by violence, resistance to authorities." "We know that Perepechayenko established contact with members of the reconnaissance and sabotage groups GRU of the General Staff of the Armed Forces, led by" Shooter "and contributed to these persons in their organization of terrorist acts in the Donetsk region. These actions of the secret services of Russia led to the death of a Security Service while performing official obligations ", - said Ostapenko. She added that on April 22 on orders "Arrow" Action charter flight flew to Moscow, where he spoke to reporters, "First Channel" and "received instructions and guidance of the curator of the foreign party to take measures to strengthen the escalating situation in the eastern regions of Ukraine ". "The curator gave for" Arrow "19 thousand dollars and hardware to encrypt telephone conversations." Thus, while returning from Moscow as a result of the special operation of the SBU Perepechayenko was detained at the airport "Donetsk". Earlier in the SBU reported that captive by terrorists around 40 people.

Russian supporter and presidential candidate Oleg Tsarev in an interview with RIA Novosti:
ria.ru...

MOSCOW, April 28 - RIA Novosti. Attempt on the mayor of Kharkiv Gennady Kernes, which resulted in policies received a gunshot wound in the back, once again confirms that now it is impossible to hold elections in the country, RIA Novosti said in a telephone conversation Ukrainian presidential candidate Oleg Tsarev.

In bullet wounded the mayor of Kharkiv affected by lung and liver
Tsarev noted that, despite the fact that recently they were rather Kernes political opponents incident angered him. "I believe that what we are shooting at politicians - it's wrong, it once again underlines the fact that at the moment it is impossible to hold the elections as long as there was a consensus that civil peace and tranquility," - said the candidate.

He noted that on the streets of Ukraine is a huge number of armed men, and the Kiev authorities are simply unable to ensure the safety of citizens. Besides, he added, street paramilitaries nobody even tries to disarm the contrary, they want to give official status.

Tsarev stressed that finding Kernes as mayor of Kharkov was not straightforward. "In the political problems he has a lot of problems in business and a lot of controversy on the property," - said the politician. According to him, a major political issue Kernes is that he went against the inhabitants of the city and instead support the townspeople supported the Kiev authorities.

a reply to: stumason

The agreement between Russia and Ukraine is not how people are portraying it.

The agreement allows only so many troops / weapons / etc. There is an agreed amount of initial equipment / soldiers etc. If Russian wanted to increase troop presence / deploy heavy military equipment (tanks etc) per the treaty / agreement Russia has to submit the information to Kiev for review and approval prior to taking the action.

The agreement also required Russian forces to be in their base areas and they were prohibited from venturing outside those borders with military equipment.

Russia abrogated the treaty by deploying military assets in violation of the treaty.
Russian Duma denounces Black Sea Fleet deal with Ukraine

As part of the agreements, Russia annually paid the Ukrainian government $526.5 million for the base, as well as writing off $97.75 million of Kiev’s debt for the right to use Ukrainian waters and radio frequencies, and to compensate for the Black Sea Fleet’s environmental impact. The Russian Navy was allowed to station up to 25,000 troops, 24 artillery systems, 132 armored vehicles and 22 military planes on the territory of Crimea in addition to the vessels.

Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet

Foreign Office (FCO) ‏@foreignoffice · 15s
27 days until #UkraineElections. #UnitedForUkraine pic.twitter.com/YJnBbDQbMv

The Voice of Russia ‏@VoiceofRussia · 23s
Mayor of #Ukraine's Kharkov shot in back, hospitalized - press service
http://(link tracking not allowed)/1m0HaXr

Ukrainian Updates ‏@Ukroblogger · 2m
What a Monday: #Kharkiv mayor assassinated; #Kyiv Obl marshrutka fired on; #Russian terrorists take another town, #Kostiantynivka. #Ukraine

SPIEGEL English ‏@SPIEGEL_English · 1m
Foreign Minister Steinmeier: 'Russia is Playing a Dangerous Game' http://(link tracking not allowed)/1kkTMEF

Kyiv Post ‏@KyivPost · 10m
Presidential candidate Boyko calls for return to dialogue with #Russia www.kyivpost.com... …

Donetsk regional radio broadcast center captured:
www.ukrinform.ua...

Regional radio broadcasting center captured in Donetsk.

This local media reported, citing sources in law enforcement.

Donetsk regional radio center is located in the district of Donetsk Petrivska. Phones RTPTS not respond.

According to media reports, Ukrainian broadcast channels still continues, although after capture separatists Sunday Donetsk regional TV and radio on site 27 channel TV channel "Russia 24".