Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

It underlines a huge misconception in the West, that this is about allegiance to the USA or EU.

In my opinion, someone saw an opportunity to stir the international community into a severe confrontation, and made initial domino pieces fall that would spiral into current events.

The Ukrainian revolution had nothing to do with Crimea. This whole set of events that culminated with Crimea being grabbed and Ukraine to fall into a crisis, had initially nothing to do with those issues.

It was about which path to follow. Accept the Russian aid with lower interest with a familiar neighbor and all it's risks, or go with a Pro-EU stance, accept membership and taking on the chance of ending up like one of the Southern Europe countries, like Greece.

All the sudden violence pops up and out of nowhere there are reports of guys in uniforms in Crimea and before you could say "what the f....vodka?" Crimea was under Russian Federation Constitution action and being passed as a Law.

Now, I'm a very pro-West kind of guy. I know the bs, but I still consider the western mentality above the others, and the one with most potential. BUT, this type of sequence of events is familiar. And those sequences are so repetitive that we all (we all fall for it) forget about them.

Remember the Arab Spring that nobody talks about anymore? Remember how that started out, in Egypt with a "democratic revolution", spiraled out of control until it was around Libya and Ghaddafi was dead? Oh, and let's not forget that the Syrian clusterf# hadn't even started yet!

Suddenly people are talking about a repetition of Egypt's revolution, and that Assad was the last dictator in control in the area.

It's in that moment, in my opinion, that the whole international paradigms change. Syria was the moment when - whoever is doing it - the guys who are pushing these revolts forward, were faced with the opposition of Russia, and in a more light way China.

And what happens? Syria falls into a civil war and still stands today in rumble with constant fighting. If Assad was that alone, wouldn't he have run out of supporters and soldiers? Everyone either left the country or still supports someone in it. There are rebels and armed forces inside Syria. Where do they all come from? Someone is telling BS about Syria, and I think it comes from all sides.

You can actually measure the severity in diplomatic relations with the distance these revolts have to Russian territory. Libya? They didn't even care. Egypt? Some warnings, different opinions and takes on the issue. Syria? Fist down, no is a no, some veto's in the UN, still no direct action. Ukraine with direct borders with Russia? Russia grabs a slice of Ukraine's territory the first chance it gets while it had nothing to do with the original protests, and continues to mass troops around the border.

Both Syria and Ukraine hold bases for the Russian Navy. Both were in risk of having closer ties to the West. You don't see international tensions because of an African revolution. South American countries bump each-others heads, but you also don't see a big fuss about it. All those revolutions and government changes come and go. But when it gets gradually closer to Russia's territory, it also gets gradually more serious?

I don't believe in coincidences.

I may disagree on a human level with what Putin is doing, and I don't accept what has been done in Crimea. However, I can't also deny that the whole situation is fishy, and much more complex than a simple allegiance to either side, even though it was exactly that what it spiraled into.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

China is definitely a big winner with Russian sanctions it has two effects makes Russia highly dependent on China. And also takes away any possibility of them competing with China in the Asian market.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Last I checked the US military in Europe used host country bases and not vice versa.

Last time I checked no one but the USA itself had bases on US Turf so where did you get that from

The USA also has a treaty with Cuba and like many people in Europe they are not happy with it and your words smith is not based on facts

Facts are that the USA has hundreds of military bases all over Europe and the currency used in the shops in these bases is the $USD if you want to get the right chance and they are so big that some even come with their own Burger Kings on site.

from a man that say oil is off topic in relation to this thread now saying "you should get your facts correct first" when i point out that we have USA military bases all over Europe makes me ask myself if AI has advanced more than we realize because you seem to keep getting the wrong end of the stick and do lots of these one liner tweet type bot posts to this thread.

a reply to: dragonridr

Absolutely, China as of now is sitting good.

But thats for another thread.

Gazprom sends Ukraine $11.4bn bill for unshipped gas
www.liveleak.com...
True or not I have no idea, props for being honest
wait: online.wsj.com...
www.upi.com...

a reply to: VirusGuard

Its the same setup..

Any foreign military coming to the US uses US military bases. Our training bases host foreign nations all the time, including Russia sometime back (and vice versa).

When the US invoked article V after 9/11 NATO dispatched military aircraft to the US to assist in expanded areal surveilliace until the US could reconfigure our radar system (they never looked "in").


Cuba -
We have Guantanamo bay - The treaty establishing it was signed in 1903. When Fidel Castro went the route of violent armed coup, we still retained control over the base. Whether Fidel likes it or not is really his concern and no one else's.

The bases the US uses are host country bases. Whether you believe that or not is again not my concern being the facts speak for themselves. If they want us to leave, we leave. As was demonstrated with the airbase we used in central Asia for Afghan operations. When the lease was up, they signed with Russia and we left.

MFA Russia ‏@mfa_russia · 36s
#Churkin: #UN Sec-Gen must publicly discuss the use of force in Ukraine's southeast en.itar-tass.com... @UN @PressRUSUN #UnitedForUkraine

MFA Russia ‏@mfa_russia · 2m
#Churkin: Kiev authorities did not even try to bring people to negotiating table en.itar-tass.com... #UnitedForUkraine @PressRUSUN

The WorldPost ‏@TheWorldPost · 6m
Ukraine demands Russia ends their 'blackmail' huff.to...

The Moscow Times ‏@MoscowTimes · 7m
Ukraine Spies Release Phone Taps Implicating Pro-#Russian Rebel in Murder
of Ukraine Politician Rybak tmt-go.ru... #news

MFA Russia ‏@mfa_russia · 15m
#Churkin: #Russia may convene extraordinary UN Security Council meeting on #Ukraine voiceofrussia.com... … @UN @PressRUSUN #UnitedForUkraine

Denial yet no proof submitted by Russia

RT ‏@RT_com · 23m
Unverified & exposed: NYT-State Dept 'Russians in #Ukraine' image proof collapses on.rt.com... pic.twitter.com/hleXd00oWT

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 41m
Kerry Hits Putin Propaganda Bullhorn (or how the CIA invented the Internet): youtu.be... via @YouTube |EMPR #russiainvadesukraine

Kerry's statement - Remarks on Ukraine

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 1h
Putin destabilizing Ukr from within www.haaretz.com... … Despite weakness Ukr military, it seems that something wrong with RU plans, too.

More Russian science fiction -
UN Security Council is split - Russian envoy to UN

MOSCOW, April 25 /ITAR-TASS/. The UN Security Council is split, and it is impossible to expect serious actions from it regarding the settlement of the conflict in Ukraine’s southeast, Russia’s permanent representative to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin, said Friday.

“The Security Council is split. We can’t expect much from it,” Churkin said during a special program on Rossiya-1 television on Friday when asked whether a UN peacekeeping operation is possible in Ukraine.

He explained that such a scenario was unlikely.

Russia Vetoes U.N. Resolution on Crimea

UNITED NATIONS — Russia on Saturday vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution that declared a planned Sunday referendum on secession in Crimea illegal, casting the sole vote against it.

U.N. General Assembly condemns Russia's actions in Ukraine

NEW YORK -- The U.N. General Assembly voted 100 to 11 with 58 abstentions to call the mid-March referendum in Crimea illegal, to support Ukraine sovereignty and independence, and to reject Russia's use of force to alter its borders.

Yeah.... split.....right.

a reply to: all2human

Excellent find!

This one intrigues me. It'll be interesting to see how the Ukrainian coal miners that are on strike plays into this. . .

Some 80 percent of miners from five coal mines belonging to "Krasnodonugol" enterprise in the city of Krasnodon have not shown up to work. The mines are all owned by one of Ukraine's richest man, Rinat Akhmetov of the mining and metallurgical "Metinvest" corporation.

Ukraine coal miners on strike, refuse to pay Kiev coup damages bill

And the Kiev Junta want those coal miners to pay a 10% tax on their salaries in order to "restore the Maidan square".




::edit:: That 10% tax is already being deducted out of their paychecks

Lithuania MFA ‏@LithuaniaMFA · 1m
#Lithuanian Parl. adopted resolution on the situation in #Ukraine -call 4 #EU 2initiate multilateral mechanism evaluating #Crimea occupation

MFA Russia ‏@mfa_russia · 4m
#Russia Ambassador to #UN: The key task now is to de-escalate the conflict #UnitedforUkraine en.itar-tass.com... @PressRUSUN @UN

NATO Minesweepers arrive in Baltic

US Embassy Riga ‏@USEmbassyRiga · 1m
NATO Minesweepers Deploy to Baltic Sea to Reassure Allies >> j.mp... pic.twitter.com/gvLQpkoWy1

Douglas Herbert @dougf24
Reports of grenade attack against a checkpoint in #Odessa manned by Ukrainian police and pro-Ukrainian civilians. 7 injured. #Ukraine
5 mins ago 4 Retweets |

www.bbc.co.uk...

The explosion occurred on the 7th kilometer Ovidiopil road near the market, "7-th km" about 5:00 am Friday.

7 people injured, including one police officer, the press service of the police in the Odessa area.

Victims were taken to hospital, where they provide health care.

Working on the spot investigative team and specialists, Explosives.

Guardians establish all the circumstances of the event.

Eyewitnesses told Ukrainian News Agency that the explosion occurred about 5:00 - a car that drove by, threw a grenade into the barrel, near which were men.

As a result, they have been injured by a grenade.

LE: Another article with photos of the checkpoint:
podrobnosti.ua...

New video online showing Russian troops on the move in Pokrovskoye, north of Taganrog, some 100km away from Mariupol:

Jerry Popowicz @JerryPopowicz
Russian Army convoy moving through Pokrovskoye, north of Taganrog - April 24 youtube.com/watch?v=M4ZBlx… #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/j9YxpjSe5O

Russian UN ambassador:
en.itar-tass.com...

MOSCOW, April 25 /ITAR-TASS/. The UN secretary-general should publicly denounce the Kiev authorities’ military operation in Ukraine’s southeast, Russia’s permanent representative to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin, said during a special program with Vladimir Solovyov on the Rossiya-1 TV channel.

“I called UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and proposed that he condemn in a public statement that I hope he will make the use of armed force against political opposition in the country’s east,” Churkin said.

More info in the article.

Man Putin is killing the Russian economy over this Russias stock indexes opened lower on Friday following S&P's downgrade of Russia's sovereign rating - with negative outlook - and amid heightened tension in Ukraine.The ruble is nose diving losing almost 10 percent of its value with the dollar. You know people in Russia are trying to convert to any currency and dump the ruble a ten percent loss is quite high when your an investor. With there ratings cut they moved into extremely high risk meaning they are charged significantly more for trades as well even in the commodities market. The plus side is Russian gas is getting cheaper as the Ruble falls though now that i think about it they keep hiking up there prices probably in an attempt to offset that.

Russia’s Rating Cut to BBB- by Standard & Poor’s
By Anna Andrianova Apr 25, 2014 1:19 AM CT 11 Comments Email Print
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Photographer: Alexander Zemlianichenko Jr/Bloomberg News
Customers wait with bags outside a shopping center in Moscow, Russia.
Related
Shun Ruble on Threat of Wider Sanctions: Barrow
Russia’s sovereign rating was cut to the lowest investment level at Standard & Poor’s and may face further downgrades if growth deteriorates and the U.S. and Europe apply wider sanctions over the conflict in Ukraine.

www.bloomberg.com...

OSCE monitoring report, up to 23rd of April:
us6.campaign-archive2.com...

Based on monitoring teams’ observations, the situation in Luhansk remained stable; Donetsk remains characterized by heightened tensions; Kharkiv and Odessa remain relatively calm; and the rest of Ukraine is calm.

In Kharkiv the situation remained relatively calm. One rally supporting the unity of Ukraine as well as one demonstration held by opponents of the central government in the city centre throughout the day gathered some 400 participants each, whereas the number of anti-government protesters in front of the city administration building reached a maximum of 150 participants. Both demonstrations ended peacefully. The team met with the prosecutor of the Kharkiv region, his deputy and the head of the regional administration. A high-ranking Ukrainian official in charge of the security situation in the region informed the team that the local police force was currently working on an advanced alert status with up to 50 per cent of personnel prepared to take action around the clock. The interlocutors said that the scope of protests in the city might increase during the May holidays.

The Luhansk team assessed the situation in the city as stable. The situation around the occupied state security service (SBU) building was quiet for the entire day, but the reinforcement of the barricades and a new makeshift roadblock behind the SBU building were observed. A local police outer cordon 300m to 350m long was still present. The Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) met with representatives of a non-governmental organization whose representatives declared that they had been held captive for six hours in the SBU building on 21 April and that approximately 100 men in unmarked uniforms armed with machine guns were occupying the building.

The overall security situation in Donetsk region on 23 April remained tense. Occupation of state institutions was ongoing throughout the region. Whereas the city administration building in Donetsk seemed to be working at least partially freely, despite its occupation, the situation in the Donetsk regional administration building, occupied and surrounded by barricades, seemed to be unchanged. The team was unable to confirm that control of any floors of the latter had been returned to the government.

The team travelled to Sloviansk, passing on the way from Donetsk several checkpoints guarded either by Ukrainian police or by unarmed or armed opponents of the central government. The city administration building in Sloviansk remained heavily fortified by sandbags and manned by several people. The police station and the SBU building also remained heavily fortified by sandbags and guarded by a large number of men with masks, automatic weapons as well as many men dressed in civilian clothing. At the time of the team’s visit, two cars arrived. One of them was a regular Ukrainian police patrol car without license plates. Outwardly, the city of Sloviansk seemed to be very quiet, with no visible protests by the local population. Children were observed playing in a playground right next to the heavily fortified city administration. However, on the basis of their own observations and conversations with local residents the team concluded that the city remained under heavy surveillance, both by people in uniforms and masks, but also by many persons in civilian clothing. According to a local resident, people are afraid to discuss their opinions about the occupiers with one another.

The team also monitored the situation in the city administration building in Mariupol, which remained occupied. Outside the building approximately 40 occupiers were noticed without weapons or masks. A new, professionally designed poster had appeared there, promoting the creation of a “Novorossiya” region that would include the Donbas area as well as the Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and Odessa regions.

The Team met with the chief rabbi of the local Jewish community. He told the team that the anti-Semitic leaflets which had recently been given out in Donetsk, demanding the registration of Jews, had not been distributed in Mariupol. According to him, the environment for Jews in Mariupol had become less favourable in recent years, citing the example of the distribution of anti-Semitic fliers and other activities carried out by a group called the “Union of the Slavs”.

The situation in Dnepropetrovsk remained calm, although the network of roadblocks within and around the city seemed to be increasing. The Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) observed three roadblocks in Pavlohrad, Slovianka and Mykolayivka located on the main highway (M04) leading to Donetsk, manned by the local police and representatives of a voluntary paramilitary organization. The roadblocks appeared to be working very effectively – according to the National Guard Commander of the Pavlohrad roadblock, illegal weapons had been confiscated on two occasions since the barricades have been set up. The team also met with a representative of the Dnepropetrovsk Jewish community. The interlocutor could recall only three or four minor incidents targeting the Jewish community over the past two years. He stated that the community was concerned about the current political situation and that some of its members were considering leaving the region. According to representatives of the organization “Sestrynska Sotnia” (a local women's organization), the total number of registered persons who have arrived from Crimea and are seeking assistance from the local administration is approximately 300 people.

The general situation remained largely unchanged in Kherson, Mykolaiv, and the surrounding areas and was assessed as calm. Small demonstrations organized by pro-government citizens and self-defence groups continued to take place in front of the regional administration building on Kherson’s main square.

In Odessa the general situation remained relatively calm. Roadside checkpoints seemed to be increasing both in importance and number, thus becoming spots of potential confrontation between supporters of Ukrainian unity and people demanding the transformation of Ukraine into a federal state. The team observed a tense standoff between two groups of activists at a checkpoint southwest of Odessa following the stopping of a minibus carrying anti-government activists and loaded with shields, sticks and tires. According to the head of the Regional Administration, a group of anti-government activists had attempted to set up a checkpoint a few kilometres east in Vopniarka. After eight hours of negotiations with local residents they left the scene.

The overall situation in Chernivtsi was calm. The team spoke to the mayor of Hertsa, a town on the border with Romania with a strong Romanian community. The interlocutor did not raise any concerns related to the language legislation in Ukraine.

In Ivano-Frankivsk and Lviv, the situation also continued to be calm. However, according to the Lviv regional governor, with whom the team met, provocations might occur during the May holidays.

The Kyiv team observed the ongoing clearing of barricades in the Maidan square. The situation in the capital city was calm.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 1m
#Ukrainian Security Forces Destroy Blockposts Of Terrorists in #Sloviansk youtu.be... | EMPR Video

Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters · 2m
Russia's Lavrov accuses Washington of distorting Geneva accord on Ukraine reut.rs...

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 4m
Anti-Terrorist Operation In #Slovyansk Continues youtu.be... | EMPR Video #Ukraine

The Voice of Russia ‏@VoiceofRussia · 8m
#BREAKING #Lavrov: #Russia will block attempts to distort #Geneva accords, unilateral demands should not be raised
http://(link tracking not allowed)/1kboS1A

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 12m
#Lugansk separatist groups in conflict as leader of South-East Army says he's against joining #Russia, leaves seized building. ostro |EMPR

a reply to: dragonridr

Even the MICEX, Russian stock market index, went down by 2% yesterday:
pic.twitter.com/UdFTrj6IR8

ouch

he Moscow Times ‏@MoscowTimes · 23m
Standard & Poor's Downgrades #Russia's Credit Rating to BBB- tmt-go.ru... #business

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 24m
Interior &Defense Min unblocked 3checkpoints in #Sloviansk yesterday. 5terrorists killed, 1Ukr officer injured. mvs.gov.ua... |EMPR

The Voice of Russia ‏@VoiceofRussia · 25m
Seven wounded in bomb attack at #Ukraine's Black Sea port city of Odessa. Follow live updates http://(link tracking not allowed)/1kbmSpW

CNN International ‏@cnni · 1m
Russia’s Putin says there will be “consequences” after Ukrainian forces kill 5 pro-Russian militants: cnn.it...

Sanctions possibly by

NEW: Additional U.S. sanctions against Russia could come as early as Friday, officials say

a reply to: Dutzy

So the UN is confirming in there report this rebellion isnt near as wide spread as certain media outlets want it to seem. Looks like it is small group of the total population scaring the rest to the point there even afraid to talk about it. Im thinking once certain instigators are removed from the scene will see quite a different view on the area. But as they say people dont argue with people carrying guns bad for your health. And you can end up dead and dumped in a river like they did that politician.