Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: renden

You mean to say that Ukrinform is a propaganda tool owned by the Kiev government because I posted a news piece from them. What about Russia Today, Russia 24 and other state owned/approved media channels ? Is it not the same situation ? I quoted them as well...

originally posted by: renden

originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: renden

TERRORISTS are the one's WHO ARE INVADING a sovereign country RIGHT NOW. Last time I check .. RUSSIANS

Show me the invasion.

I showed you the mercenaries.

How much more evident proof do you need?

- 50,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern borders?
- 20,000 Russian troops in Crimea? (something the Kremlin lied for weeks about but then finally admitted)
- GRU, FSB, and 'Tsentr-Alfa' mercs operating as special forces, training pro-Russian militias (many of their members not even Ukrainain citizens) for and coordinated takeovers of police and government facilities inside Ukraine.

The fact is that no military entity trained the Euromaidan protesters. Even the slingshots, molotov cocktails, and personal firearms possessed by its minority radical elements were pitiful compared to the 'little green men' appearing in Crimea and now eastern Ukraine.

a reply to: Yusomad

Supporting oppresive far right regimes seems to be the order of the new millenium in the USofA. That and ignoring the will of its people.

Invading its neighbors and oppressing ethnic minorities seems to be the order of the new millennium for Czar Vladimir. That and murdering journalists.

Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM · 7m

Senior security official tells @KyivPost original plan for #Sloviansk today was to recapture from separatists, including seized bldgs. 1/2

Christopher MillerVerified account ‏@ChristopherJM

2/2 #Ukraine sr. official also tells @KyivPost 7 people dead as result of anti-terror operation. "Separatists are panicking," official said.

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

ok enough with the "50,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern borders? and it is not just yourself,,

NEWS FLASH,,



THE ENTIRE COUNTRY OF RUSSIA,,IS ON ,,Ukraine's eastern bordeR.

Please stop. the same parroting. Its demeaning.

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

ok enough with the "50,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern borders? and it is not just yourself,,

NEWS FLASH,,

THE ENTIRE COUNTRY OF RUSSIA,,IS ON ,,Ukraine's eastern bordeR.

Please stop. the same parroting. Its demeaning.

So are those 50.000 troops all spread out evenly over 17 million square kilometers, or what?

Seems the info about separatists in Slavyansk taking cover in schools and nurseries is gradually confirmed:
espreso.tv...

The self-proclaimed " mayor " Slavic Vyacheslav Ponomarev gave the armed militants take their nurseries

This is the " Facebook " reports journalist Roman Burko , citing eyewitness accounts .

According to them, for 5-6 people with guns 13:00 are directly in kindergartens and schools. " Mayor " given his team the terrorists use tactics Putin - hide behind women and children.

Parents have come to take their children from kindergarten early are faced with the fact that they do not give children under various pretexts, and argue that they should fight on the " Donetsk Republic."

ConflictBreakingNews ‏@MiddleEast_BRK 8m

Report: Groups of 5-6 terrorists have set up gun positions inside several schools and kindergartens in #Sloviansk. Showing their true faces!

In Slavyansk, leaflets dropped warning people not to approach gov. buildings:

Mitch PotterVerified account ‏@MPwrites

Wow: this just fell from sky in #Slaviansk. 1000s of pro-#Ukraine leaflets warning 'Don't come near govt buildings.' pic.twitter.com/TP3nZhSa2j

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme
a reply to: Yusomad

It is very clear that you know nothing first hand of the Euromaidan movement which was composed in majority of everyday Ukrainians. It existed for months and support poured in from all over the country. Old grandmothers knit sweaters for office workers who took leave from their jobs. It was a populist movement not unlike 'occupy wall street' in the States except much more mainstream.

Only a person whose knowledge is drawn solely from Kremlin-controlled media (and in Russia they actually do control the media, it is not just a figure of speech as you use in place of 'perceived bias' as in the west) could characterize this opposition as being 'far right' or 'fascist'.

Consult reports by international human rights organizations or figures on the killings and jailings of journalists in Russia before you label the Euromaidan the repressive threat to Russians.

Euromaidan is an existential threat to Putin's power and this is why he is employing a blanket propaganda of lies, conducting provocations, and armed annexations. Historically this is what fascists do.

Ok, and how many Ukrainians have you talked to about Euromaidan? Any? I have talked to several Ukrainians personally (beginning in January, before it got violent). Of course, there was support for Euromaidan by all kinds of citizens. But (in my experience) the majority of the Ukrainians opposed Euromaidan! They made jokes about the "revolution" in the beginning. When it got hotter, they critized the vandalism in Kiev and their wish to get closer to the EU.

When it got violent, they even constructed road blocks so that no more "activists" could go to Kiev to make even more trouble. BTW, the people I have talked to are from Kiev and the region north of Kiev. I don´t have accounts by Ukrainians from the East. I do have accounts by people living in Crimea, but that´s another story.

So, again, I don´t deny that there were everyday citizens on Maidan Nezalezhnosti (at least in the beginning). I only want to state here that the people on Maidan did not speak for the majority! Many, many Ukrainians don´t want close ties to the EU! And this is something we have to accept.

One more thing about the Nazi thing. I wrote it somewhere in this thread already, but I will do it again. The beginning of Euromaidan was not influenced by fascists of Pravyi Sektor. But you can´t deny that they play a BIG role NOW! Look at the ministers, look at the parliament, look at the big Stepan-Bandera-Portrait on Maidan Nezalezhnosti! There definately IS a fascist influence now. I´ve been there and have seen it with my own eyes!

a reply to: renden

Nobody here would deny that western intelligence and is not operating in Ukraine (or for that matter any part of the known world). To do so would be extremely naive.

But to believe Putin is somehow a defender of individual freedoms or 'Christian' values is more than absurd. It is extremely dangerous. It ignores everything about his actions, going all the way back to his original rise to power where he destroyed a Russian prosecutor for investigating Yeltsin's massive corruption and embezzlement.

I work amidst very powerful men everyday, ones who wield enormous political and business capital. And what I can tell you from my experience is that right now the corproate-military complex which exists in Russia is much more aggressive and bold than anything coming from the ugliest of the american and european corporatocracies.

Russia United is retrograde in its outlook, attempting to restore some imagined grandeur of a Soviet or Czarist past. It is religious in fevor, but has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus (who is also a prophet in my childhood religion of Islam, by the way). It is essentially authoritarian and values the order of obedience above protection of personal liberties or human rights. Within its own borders, it seeks to silence opposing opinions through political intimidation, lies, and violence.

Do not succumb to their appeal merely because you hate the injustices within your own government and society.

a reply to: Dutzy

Here we go again,,

"Beslan School Massacre, Dramatic Scenes (2004). A Day that Shook the World. On 1st September 2004, 32 armed and masked terrorists stormed School Number 1 in Beslan, North Ossetia-Alania (Russia). The terrifying ordeal lasted 3 days for 1200 adults and children. They were packed in to the school gymnasium where the terrorists had bombs and guns. 331 people died including 186 children. More than 700 were injured.

A Day That Shook The World is the classic series that recalls the days of the 20th century that proved to be era-defining and pivotal in the course of modern history."

Its not propaganda its British Pathé .




Only this time if Russia does anything,,

Another video of Russian armored columns close to Ukrainian border:

a reply to: DJW001

"all spread out evenly" why u making a cake??
"all spread out evenly" what in Gods name does that have too do with anything??

a reply to: ALoveSupreme

"But to believe Putin is somehow a defender of individual freedoms or 'Christian' values is more than absurd. "

not its not. Don't be so prejudiced. The Godless Commie, is no more, Putins ideoligy than Obama's is.

a reply to: cm23

I personally know numerous people involved with Euromaidan—those who came from Kyiv, Odessa, Kharkiv, as well as parts of Crimea. I should explain that in my line of work I come into contact with many cultural figures including writers, artists, intellectuals, etc. And the Ukrainians of this category I know uniformly supported the Euromaidan, many volunteering time or making donations to the cause.

Yes, it is true that amidst the failing economy and the failings of the past 'orange revolution' many everyday Ukrainians have been skeptical. Only the most dedicated lived in tents over the freezing winter, but the fact is that there were many thousands of them and that they came from all walks of life. And again, the main outrage—the catalyst which started it all—was not a refusal of Yanukovych to sign the EU trade pact. Rather it was the violent dispersal of a small group of student protestors in November. Everyday people did not care about the trade deal. They got disgusted that unarmed students (their own community's children!) were beaten with impunity, likely at the orders of the then serving president. It was just the latest injury added to a long list of insults including corruption, political repression, and in general poor governance.

But to suggest that a majority of Ukrainians were not dissatisfied with the failings of the Ukrainian government is simply false. Whether or not this same majority was willing to take a stand and do something about it is another matter. So it goes in all revolutions, from the time of the Bastille to the Algerian War of Independence, it is a select group who take a stand on behalf of the dissatisfaction of the majority. The protestors of Euromaidan did exactly this.

Of course there were opportunists like the leaders of Pravyi Sektor or even the US State Department who have sought to gain advantage from the rising political tide. There is obviously a lot of anti-Russian sentiment (and for good reason considering Putin'e behavior) and it is unfortunate that Nazi imagery like Stepan Bandera or the Ukrainian SS should occasionally emerge. But you could observe the same confused political gestures on the behalf of the most ardent Pro-Russian nationalists, many of whom use swastika imagery or are sympathetic to racist theories against Jewish business.

There will always be ignorance but it does not change the weight of the facts—that Putin is the biggest opportunist of them all now and that he seeks to hold onto and consolidate his authoritarian power by military aggression and orwellian type repression of information and politics.

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: renden

originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: renden

TERRORISTS are the one's WHO ARE INVADING a sovereign country RIGHT NOW. Last time I check .. RUSSIANS

Show me the invasion.

I showed you the mercenaries.

How much more evident proof do you need?

- 50,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern borders?
- 20,000 Russian troops in Crimea? (something the Kremlin lied for weeks about but then finally admitted)

Show them.

Got pics? Got videos?

You seriously telling us that with all that insane money spent on magic cutting edge surveillance, all the tech wizardry in the arsenal of US government, and not a SINGLE confirmed visual evidence of ANY troops what so ever?

No really, even Hollywood could have released a full feature about Russian "invasion" by now, with tens of thousands of extras, but nooooo, we are shown some fake ass sat pic of Russian military exercises from 4 years ago, and that fake a$$ crap is called "proof".

Come on.

a reply to: BobAthome

'Godless commie' is some ridiculous American rhetoric from your county's reactionary 1950s is I am not incorrect?

I am talking adhering to the actual teachings of Jesus rather than a superficial association with Christianity's political power.

Putin embraces the Orthodox church and its patriarch because they are powerful symbols of Russia's past glory. The Russian businessman whom I work with in Dubai have many organizations and functions that harken back to this idea— 'third rome', 'czar grad', 'the sons of Rurik', etc.

The fact is that no military entity trained the Euromaidan protesters. Even the slingshots, molotov cocktails, and personal firearms possessed by its minority radical elements were pitiful compared to the 'little green men' appearing in Crimea and now eastern Ukraine.

Yeah that's a straight out lie.

I'm so sick of their twisted lies. Just filthy.

Sick, sick people, and as sad as it is, only two things cures such sickness. Faith or fire.

I was not even religious, but after keep seeing all the literally mentally ill people telling others how to live and twisting everything inside out and upside down, I was left no choice but to make a stand.

Kiev authorities giving school camps to neo-Nazis for military training
News | 22.03.2014 | 12:27

The leader of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi organization The Right Sector Dmitry Yarosh has been given the property and funds of 23 children’s holiday camps for training youth ranks for the Ukrainian National Guard. The youth wing of The Right Sector mostly consists of under-age football ultras and adherents to Ukrainian nationalism. They were the backbone of Euromaidan hardliners who took part in armed clashes with Berkut, the elite riot police, that ended with storming the government buildings and seizing power in Kiev.

www.strategic-culture.org...

originally posted by: Dutzy
a reply to: renden

You mean to say that Ukrinform is a propaganda tool owned by the Kiev government because I posted a news piece from them. What about Russia Today, Russia 24 and other state owned/approved media channels ? Is it not the same situation ? I quoted them as well...

I didn't quote anybody, I showed factual videos of Ukrainian soldiers REBELLING against ILLEGAL orders to SHOOT CIVILIANS.

What, cat got your tongue?

Feel free to comment on the videos, but from what I've seen you'll just flood the thread with tons of same old propaganda crap, so the shills can keep applauding in approval.

originally posted by: renden

originally posted by: ALoveSupreme

originally posted by: renden

originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: renden

TERRORISTS are the one's WHO ARE INVADING a sovereign country RIGHT NOW. Last time I check .. RUSSIANS

Show me the invasion.

I showed you the mercenaries.

How much more evident proof do you need?

- 50,000 Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern borders?
- 20,000 Russian troops in Crimea? (something the Kremlin lied for weeks about but then finally admitted)

Show them.

Got pics? Got videos?

You seriously telling us that with all that insane money spent on magic cutting edge surveillance, all the tech wizardry in the arsenal of US government, and not a SINGLE confirmed visual evidence of ANY troops what so ever?

No really, even Hollywood could have released a full feature about Russian "invasion" by now, with tens of thousands of extras, but nooooo, we are shown some fake ass sat pic of Russian military exercises from 4 years ago, and that fake a$$ crap is called "proof".

Come on.

There were myriad images of Russian military within Crimea who were for a long time supposedly local 'self-defense' militias and then finally admitted by Putin himself as being regular Russian army.

Now there are similar appearances in Eastern Ukraine, albeit still with primarily special forces type irregulars, who are actually even more trained and better equipped.

Shall I do a Google image search for you?
www.google.com... &biw=1427&bih=805

On the question that there are Russian troops amassed along the border. I am not sure what Michael Bay special effects style imagery you expect. Maybe the forthcoming invasion will not even convince you? Satellite images are what they are. Also, simple logic would also allow for this possibility when the Russians had been by their own admission running exercises of such a scale along the border just this past month.