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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: cosmonova


And I am asking you again, has Yanukovych committed a treason or crime of any sort?


Are you kidding?

It has been all over the news since this thing started that he is accused of stealing millions (billions?) of Ukraine's money to his own personal bank accounts. He has hundreds of corruption accusations hanging over him.

Why do you think he "left" Ukraine in the first place?
edit on 23-4-2014 by GarrusVasNormandy because: typo




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: cosmonova
And again when the 2004 constitution was reinstated it came along with the streamlined impeachment process...

Maybe you should actually read the impeachment requirements since they have been told to you time and again and you seem to ignore them.

2004 Constitution
Streamlined Impeachment Process

His removal was valid and lawful. Simply ignoring the facts because they don't support your position doesn't make them invalid, just your position.

Interesting that you ignored the other post on the exact same topic and concentrated on just me. Any reason why?



Here we go, read.

'But a legal gap remains. According to the terms of an EU-brokered peace deal finalized on February 21, Yanukovych was due to sign a measure returning Ukraine to its 2004 constitution. In 2010, Yanukovych restored the country's 1996 constitution, which hands greater power to the presidency.
Yanukovych, however, failed to sign the measure. The omission appears to leave Kyiv in the kind of legal limbo that may prove fodder for future arguments against the current government transition.

The 1996 and the 2004 constitutions are uniform when it comes to the reasons for removing a president, with Article 111 stating the parliament has the right to initiate a procedure of impeachment "if he commits treason or other crime."

www.rferl.org...



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: cosmonova

Here ya go.. read.

The agreement signed by the former President and the parliament, in addition to calling for new elections,reverted back the 2004 Constitution.

Under the 2004 Constitution, it allowed for impeachment using the existing language as well as a streamlined process, which is the part that people are not familiar with.

Voice of Russia - Constitutional reform may downgrade Yanukovych to figurehead president -


Ukraine’s MPs are due to take up drafts constitutional reform today, the drafts that have been prepared by the Batkivshchina and UDAR party factions. The opposition insists on a return to the constitution of 2004 and on setting limits on presidential powers. Meanwhile, the EU Foreign Ministers are due to meet in Brussels this Monday to discuss the situation in Ukraine. Sweden and Poland will come up with their proposals on changing the stand on Ukraine.


Besides a return to the old constitution, the drafts provide for a simplified system of impeachment and voting, and also deprive the President of any role to play in the Constitutional Court lineup. The opposition feels the Court should be formed by the MPs and a congress of Ukraine’s judges. Unlike the constitution of 2004, which restricted presidential powers, the currently presented draft actually turns Yanukovych into a figurehead President, says the Director of the Institute for Strategic Planning, Alexander Gusev, and elaborates.

“The changes under discussion will largely trim the presidential powers, reducing his function to receiving credentials from foreign Ambassadors. The President’s duties will boil down to representing Ukraine during receptions. He will de facto stop being Head of State, with all powers due to be transferred to Parliament”.


How do we know the 2004 return and simplified impeachment is valid?

Voice of Russia - Ukraine: Yanukovych signs deal on ending crisis, Rada reinstates 2004 Constitution


The following is the text of the agreement signed by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and opposition leaders in the presence of EU envoys to end the ex-Soviet country's three-month crisis.

1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

2. Constitutional reform, balancing the powers of the President, the government and parliament, will start immediately and be completed in September 2014.

3. Presidential elections will be held as soon as the new Constitution is adopted but no later than December 2014. New electoral laws will be passed and a new Central Election Commission will be formed on the basis of proportionality and in accordance with the OSCE & Venice commission rules.

4. Investigation into recent acts of violence will be conducted under joint monitoring from the authorities, the opposition and the Council of Europe.

5. The authorities will not impose a state of emergency. The authorities and the opposition will refrain from the use of violence.


*** A portion was removed by me as it dealt with actions taken under part 5 - the link has the full text ***



6. The Foreign Ministers of France, Germany, Poland and the Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation call for an immediate end to all violence and confrontation.


The simplified impeachment process was valid and lawful under the Ukrainian Constitution.


Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych has announced that, to settle the crisis in Ukraine, he will initiate the reinstatement of the 2004 constitution and call early presidential elections. He also called for starting the procedure of forming a government of national confidence. "I am announcing steps that need to be made in order to restore peace and avoid more victims of the standoff," Yanukovych said in a statement available on the presidential website on Friday.

"These tragic days when Ukraine has taken the gravest losses and when people has died my duty is to state that human lives are very important. We should do our best to take joint steps to restore peace in Ukraine," Yanukovych said.

"I declare the steps that should be taken to restore calm and avoid new victims," the Ukrainian president said.

"I state that I initiate early presidential elections and return the 2004 Constitution by redistributing powers from the president to the parliament," Yanukovych said.


Yes the return to the 2004 Constitution was valid / lawful.
Yes the impeachment using the simplified process from the 2004 Constitution was valid / lawful.
The impeachment process followed the law as the bill was introduced by Parliament, and was actually authored by Nikolay Rudkovskiy, head of the Socialist Party in Ukraine, which is part of the ruling Party of Regions coalition. The Party of Regions was the party of former President Yanukovych.

Since people have issues using western sources, the above are all Russian sources. The Constitutional changes were discussed by Russian media in 2010/20/12, noting the changes in how parliament was elected would most likely result in parties coming together to impeach the former President. He had been under investigation for a few years prior to all the mess we have now over corruption charges.

Finally - Library of Congress - Ukraine: Simplified Impeachment Procedures - Link 1
Library of Congress - Ukraine: Simplified Impeachment Procedures - Link 2


(Feb 03, 2009) On January 15, 2009, the Ukrainian legislature, the Verkhovna Rada, adopted the Law on Special Temporary Investigative Commissions, which simplifies the procedure for the legislative body to impeach the President. Previously, the impeachment procedure could be initiated on the basis of a petition signed by three-quarters of the parliamentarians. The new Law provides that the formation of a Special Investigative Commission is the formal beginning of the impeachment process. Such a Commission must be formed upon the request of a simple majority of the Rada's members. The original sponsors of a bill on the creation of a Special Investigative Commission cannot recall their signatures and withdraw the proposed bill. Legal justification and evidential materials must accompany the bill. The Law requires the Commission to finish its investigation within a three-month period, although the first report must be submitted to the Rada no later than at the end of the second month of its work. If the Commission's conclusion is supported by the Rada, the case will be submitted to the Supreme and Constitutional Courts.

A Commission is formed from among Members of the Rada who represent the existing parliamentary factions proportionally, plus a special prosecutor and three special investigators. Members of the Rada can be appointed as the sp
edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: GarrusVasNormandy
a reply to: cosmonova


And I am asking you again, has Yanukovych committed a treason or crime of any sort?


Are you kidding?

It has been all over the news since this thing started that he is accused of stealing millions (billions?) of Ukraine's money to his own personal bank accounts. He has hundreds of corruption accusations hanging over him.

Why do you think he "left" Ukraine in the first place?


accused means nothing. Has there been a trial, anything official?
To make it clear, Yanukovych is no different than any other Ukrainian president before and that is why Ukrainian economy is in such a bad shape. And it will collapse soon, can't you see that soldiers are left on their own, local people have to feed them. Disaster. Ukraine has ceased to exist with Maidan. It is falling apart on daily basis, lets just hope it will not turn into major civil war. Not quite what cookie lady wanted but hey 5 bill is not that much money anyway. Mind you they should spend that money much better, improving Aegis Radar System for example.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:56 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: cosmonova

Here ya go.. read.

The agreement signed by the former President and the parliament, in addition to calling for new elections,reverted back the 2004 Constitution.






Oh I see, you missed just one minor thing

'According to the terms of an EU-brokered peace deal finalized on February 21, Yanukovych was due to sign a measure returning Ukraine to its 2004 constitution. In 2010, Yanukovych restored the country's 1996 constitution, which hands greater power to the presidency.
Yanukovych, however, failed to sign the measure. '



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: cosmonova

Read it again...

By signing the agreement, Yanukovych agreed to the return. All that was needed was for Parliament to approve it, which they did and with more votes than the 2/3 required to make the change. Once approved by Parliament, the impeachment vote was held, which also passed with more than the 2/3 minimum required.


1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: GarrusVasNormandy
a reply to: cosmonova


And I am asking you again, has Yanukovych committed a treason or crime of any sort?


Are you kidding?

It has been all over the news since this thing started that he is accused of stealing millions (billions?) of Ukraine's money to his own personal bank accounts. He has hundreds of corruption accusations hanging over him.

Why do you think he "left" Ukraine in the first place?


accused means nothing. Has there been a trial, anything official?
To make it clear, Yanukovych is no different than any other Ukrainian president before and that is why Ukrainian economy is in such a bad shape. And it will collapse soon, can't you see that soldiers are left on their own, local people have to feed them. Disaster. Ukraine has ceased to exist with Maidan. It is falling apart on daily basis, lets just hope it will not turn into major civil war. Not quite what cookie lady wanted but hey 5 bill is not that much money anyway. Mind you they should spend that money much better, improving Aegis Radar System for example.


Hence the streamlined process that you apparently are refusing to read.


1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:11 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: GarrusVasNormandy
a reply to: cosmonova


And I am asking you again, has Yanukovych committed a treason or crime of any sort?


Are you kidding?

It has been all over the news since this thing started that he is accused of stealing millions (billions?) of Ukraine's money to his own personal bank accounts. He has hundreds of corruption accusations hanging over him.

Why do you think he "left" Ukraine in the first place?


accused means nothing. Has there been a trial, anything official?
To make it clear, Yanukovych is no different than any other Ukrainian president before and that is why Ukrainian economy is in such a bad shape. And it will collapse soon, can't you see that soldiers are left on their own, local people have to feed them. Disaster. Ukraine has ceased to exist with Maidan. It is falling apart on daily basis, lets just hope it will not turn into major civil war. Not quite what cookie lady wanted but hey 5 bill is not that much money anyway. Mind you they should spend that money much better, improving Aegis Radar System for example.


Hence the streamlined process that you apparently are refusing to read.


1. Within 48 hours of the signing of this agreement, a special law will be adopted, signed and promulgated, which will restore the Constitution of 2004 including amendments passed until now. Signatories declare their intention to create a coalition and form a national unity government within 10 days thereafter.



Lol, lets simplified Ukrainian Constitution in order to suit our goals. 2004 Constitution still mention treason&crime as reasons for impeachment, but who cares lets simplify and just vote.
I just wonder how long until Junta get kicked out from Kiev. No money from west, country falling apart, hungry army...
edit on 23-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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cosmonova:



I just wonder how long until Junta get kicked out from Kiev. No money from west, country falling apart, hungry army...


I give it under 3yrs.

As soon as IMF's austerity kicks in plus nonpayment on its gas bills. . . So yeah, one just needs to look around the EU of those countries that are rioting due to IMF's austerity 'aid' deals.

It's sad but Congratulations to Ukrainians, they were just forced into the final debilitating stages of collapse.
edit on 23-4-2014 by SurrenderingAmerica because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
cosmonova:



I just wonder how long until Junta get kicked out from Kiev. No money from west, country falling apart, hungry army...


I give it under 3yrs.

As soon as IMF's austerity kicks in plus nonpayment on its gas bills. . . So yeah, one just needs to look around the EU of those countries that are rioting due to IMF's austerity 'aid' deals.

It's sad but Congratulations to Ukrainians, they were just forced into the final debilitating stages of collapse.



I would say a couple months.

Here we go, miners have started a strike asking for higher wages. And they are also protesting against a new tax, Maidan Recovery Tax. This will spread everywhere like a fire in next few weeks. There is no money, and only promises coming from West. Junta is approaching dead end.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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Well it looks like its official Simon is now a hostage no more vice reporting seems hes being charged as well because now there saying hes a provocateur. I guess thats back to them claiming the jewish journalist in a neo nazi. They want to trade Simon for Russians captured by Ukraine. By the way i know there nervous since a city was freed by kiev but isnt threatening to kill hostages terrorism?






Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, the gunman who has proclaimed himself mayor of Slovyansk, confirmed that his armed group was holding 10 hostages, including an American journalist, and demanding the release of Russian agents and fighters detained by Ukrainian forces trying to reassert Kiev's authority in the turbulent east.
"These Ukrainian guys and this American are not really journalists but provocateurs, and they will stay here until we exchange them for our comrades put in prison by the illegal government in Kiev," Ponomaryov said in a telephone interview. "I am warning that if we are attacked none of [the hostages] survives."


www.latimes.com...

edit on 4/23/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

There is no other word for it BUT terrorism. How else can one describe the action of taking hostages and threatening their lives for political gain? And yet Putin expects the world to see it his way when he continues to say nothing about this?

I say again: Putin could have those journalists released with a phone call.
edit on 23-4-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: dragonridr

There is no other word for it BUT terrorism. How else can one describe the action of taking hostages and threatening their lives for political gain? And yet Putin expects the world to see it his way when he continues to say nothing about this?

I say again: Putin could have those journalists released with a phone call.


This is happening in Ukraine not Russia. What Putin has to do with it?



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:14 PM
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a reply to: DeadSeraph



Really do hope simon comes out of this ok ive been watching vice for over a year now and i like him he just tells it like it is. Unfortunately i guess thats why they see him as a threat. but if you ever watch his tweets he is hilarious.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: dragonridr

There is no other word for it BUT terrorism. How else can one describe the action of taking hostages and threatening their lives for political gain? And yet Putin expects the world to see it his way when he continues to say nothing about this?

I say again: Putin could have those journalists released with a phone call.


This is happening in Ukraine not Russia. What Putin has to do with it?


To bad Putin didnt take that attitude at the beginning of this and left Ukraine alone.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:21 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: DeadSeraph



Really do hope simon comes out of this ok ive been watching vice for over a year now and i like him he just tells it like it is. Unfortunately i guess thats why they see him as a threat. but if you ever watch his tweets he is hilarious.


Same. Having watched him on VICE news for some time now I've come to like his reporting and almost feel like I know the guy. I would hate to see something bad happen to him, and to be perfectly honest I'm quite worried and sort of pissed off that nobody seems to be talking much about it (and the U.S government was pretty nonchalant about it). You'd think a U.S citizen being taken hostage by Russians would be a big deal, but I guess the MSM would rather talk about Tori Spelling.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: dragonridr

There is no other word for it BUT terrorism. How else can one describe the action of taking hostages and threatening their lives for political gain? And yet Putin expects the world to see it his way when he continues to say nothing about this?

I say again: Putin could have those journalists released with a phone call.


This is happening in Ukraine not Russia. What Putin has to do with it?


Go read my post again. I bolded the relevant part for you.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:23 PM
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originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: DeadSeraph



Really do hope simon comes out of this ok ive been watching vice for over a year now and i like him he just tells it like it is. Unfortunately i guess thats why they see him as a threat. but if you ever watch his tweets he is hilarious.


Same. Having watched him on VICE news for some time now I've come to like his reporting and almost feel like I know the guy. I would hate to see something bad happen to him, and to be perfectly honest I'm quite worried and sort of pissed off that nobody seems to be talking much about it (and the U.S government was pretty nonchalant about it). You'd think a U.S citizen being taken hostage by Russians would be a big deal, but I guess the MSM would rather talk about Tori Spelling.


Probably because vice calls out the US government on alot of stuff so they dont have many friends in the government.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: dragonridr

There is no other word for it BUT terrorism. How else can one describe the action of taking hostages and threatening their lives for political gain? And yet Putin expects the world to see it his way when he continues to say nothing about this?

I say again: Putin could have those journalists released with a phone call.


The method behind their madness is 2 fold.

It removes a reporting source that was trusted.
They can claim an American travelling under Press credentials was anything but, which helps their propaganda.
It now draws the US into the mix in several ways -
They are hoping it will force the Americans to press the Ukraine government to release these people in order to secure the release of Americans.

Should he US use other means, like special forces, they and Russia will use it as a pretext for American forces inside Ukraine, and will spin it out of control.

It also has the added bonus of serving as a warning to any press agency that does not tow the Russian propaganda BS that continued reporting of the truth will be treated as anything but a member of the media.

All propaganda for Russia for sure...

Ironic really... I thought the Russian propaganda said only ethnic Russians were in danger. It seems only ethnic Russians are the ones causing all the problems.
edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: DeadSeraph



Really do hope simon comes out of this ok ive been watching vice for over a year now and i like him he just tells it like it is. Unfortunately i guess thats why they see him as a threat. but if you ever watch his tweets he is hilarious.


He is good, I like him too. But I think he was pushing his luck a bit lately, considering the sentiment towards West in the areas he was reporting from.




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